One Ball One Pocket

NH Steve

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Steve,
I stated I like spotting two balls and added clarity that the spotted ball comes from the table. There is no problem here. The 'clarity' is not in your rules, so it is not I that has done anything wrong. Just a discussion.
I also stated this; "So, you then have ball in hand to make a two-ball spot shot into your hole. There's nothing wrong with that! Plus, there is an added benefit of spotting two balls, for that means you cannot score a ball and then have it spotted and score again". Clarity; as with one ball spotted.

Your rule writing of which I clearly agreed with, solves what many here were concerned about, and that is pocketing a ball and then playing for a spot shot, to pocket another ball when a ball is owed. It was found to be to simple.

What you are concerned about is that fact that I pointed out the spotting of one ball for no balls have been scored. This is just a discussion, which I have clarified that TD would struggle with this, and I pointed out the pluses and minuses. I never suggested to go to this.
But, I do feel there needs to be a clarification that the remaining balls are downed and scored.

My main concern is the "sudden death" and how the game is played. And I believe you have captured it correctly. I only question that it has a flaw in how it is played, not in how you captured the game.

I'd like this discussed, and I hope members continue this discussion on this.
Whitey

For clarification, so how about this Steve,
One Ball One Pocket
An abbreviated form of One Pocket, beginning with just one object ball on the table.

The Game:
Begin with one ball frozen to the center of the foot rail, B-I-H from the kitchen. Breaker must open with a defensive shot. If the opening break leaves the object ball within one diamond of the breaker's own pocket, the opponent has the option of accepting the balls as they lie and continuing play, or calling for a re-break.

Continuing Play:
In the event of a scratch or foul, the offending player spots up an additional ball, and play continues with the offending player now needing the additional ball/s for the win. The first player to score game ball wins, as long as any applicable scratch penalties have been paid. Standard One Pocket rules apply thereafter.

I moved the 'Standard One Pocket rules apply thereafter. I do hope it is alright for I and members to offer up a suggestion like this, for now it seems correct and in line with The Game rule writing and the Continuing Play writing, and obviously clarifies that balls are drawn from the table instead of balls scored, and thereafter Standard One Pocket rules apply.

Or, how about this Steve for a clarification of the remaining balls downed.
The Game: Begin with one ball frozen to the center of the foot rail, B-I-H from the kitchen with the remaining balls downed and counted as being scored. Breaker must open with a defensive shot. If the opening break leaves the object ball within one diamond of the breaker's own pocket, the opponent has the option of accepting the balls as they lie and continuing play, or calling for a re-break. Standard One Pocket rules apply thereafter.

It is minor but adds clarity and is correct for declaring; " Standard One Pocket rules apply thereafter". For I am not knowledgeable, and neither are those new to the game that play starts with balls scored.
respectfully of course, Whitey
I don't see any significant improvement with your suggestions Dennis. My sentence about standard One Pocket rules applying thereafter is definitely better where I have it -- right after the break. The rules I posted myself above are nice and simple and fine as they are, for the three versions that they cover. They do not cover Philly "Bare Ball" nor do they cover the CA break. Like you and darmoose have alluded to, there are other options out there or that might be worth trying in certain circumstances. However, I like these three because they stay close to the actual end game of traditional One Pocket, without any unusual spotting or not spotting variations or special BIH quirks. Like I said above, I don't want to promote a version of One Ball One Pocket that is liable to lead to newbie confusion as to how traditional One Pocket is played in the end game.
 

NH Steve

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Those of you advocating for spotting only one ball when a ball is pocketed, when a scratch or cue ball is jumped off the table occurs on the shot, there is good reason to spot both the pocketed ball and a second penalty ball. If you forgo the penalty ball, that leaves a standard spot shot. One of the things I noticed watching the 1B1P tournament at Buffalo's last May was how treacherous a spot shot is -- any miss often leaves a nice bank that allows the player that just scratched or fouled to take advantage of a situation that actually ought to have penalized them. :unsure: YOu still get spot shots for any scratch that comes up without a simultaneous pocketed ball, so you still get plenty of practice with spot shots -- there is no need to mess with traditional One Pocket rules just to promote spot shot proficiency :)
 

darmoose

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Those of you advocating for spotting only one ball when a ball is pocketed, when a scratch or cue ball is jumped off the table occurs on the shot, there is good reason to spot both the pocketed ball and a second penalty ball. If you forgo the penalty ball, that leaves a standard spot shot. One of the things I noticed watching the 1B1P tournament at Buffalo's last May was how treacherous a spot shot is -- any miss often leaves a nice bank that allows the player that just scratched or fouled to take advantage of a situation that actually ought to have penalized them. :unsure: YOu still get spot shots for any scratch that comes up without a simultaneous pocketed ball, so you still get plenty of practice with spot shots -- there is no need to mess with traditional One Pocket rules just to promote spot shot proficiency :)
That's hilarious..........you're rational includes your fear that if I scratch and leave you a spot shot, you are disadvantaged because should you miss the spot shot I may have a bank to my hole.....ya know ya don't have to shoot the spot shot, don'tcha, ya can play safe..........and what about the unfairness to me, if I miss the cross corner bank and leave you a bank, huh? Strange strategy to me...you don't want an opportunity to win the game with a spot shot?

...and you're not concerned about the potential confusion that may be caused by playing that needing three balls is loss of game vs. three consecutive fouls is loss of game................seems like more rationalization simply to support a personal preference to me. It certainly is not "standard one pocket rules", is it? :unsure:
 
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sheldon

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That's hilarious..........you're rational includes your fear that if I scratch and leave you a spot shot, you are disadvantaged because should you miss the spot shot I may have a bank to my hole.....ya know ya don't have to shoot the spot shot, don'tcha, ya can play safe..........and what about the unfairness to me, if I miss the cross corner bank and leave you a bank, huh? Strange strategy to me...you don't want an opportunity to win the game with a spot shot?

...and you're not concerned about the potential confusion that may be caused by playing that needing three balls is loss of game vs. three consecutive fouls is loss of game................seems like more rationalization simply to support a personal preference to me. It certainly is not "standard one pocket rules", is it? :unsure:
The needing 3 balls thing is to speed it up for tournament play. 3 consecutive fouls is still a loss, that would fall under normal rules.
 

NH Steve

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That's hilarious..........you're rational includes your fear that if I scratch and leave you a spot shot, you are disadvantaged because should you miss the spot shot I may have a bank to my hole.....ya know ya don't have to shoot the spot shot, don'tcha, ya can play safe..........and what about the unfairness to me, if I miss the cross corner bank and leave you a bank, huh? Strange strategy to me...you don't want an opportunity to win the game with a spot shot?

...and you're not concerned about the potential confusion that may be caused by playing that needing three balls is loss of game vs. three consecutive fouls is loss of game................seems like more rationalization simply to support a personal preference to me. It certainly is not "standard one pocket rules", is it? :unsure:
Ask Matt lol. I actually like spot shots.
 

stevelomako

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The biggest thing for me about all this right now is the opening shot.

We’ve never played where you can’t win on the first shot. Just doesn’t make sense.



You’re saying you have to play a “defensive” shot to start and if you hit it
good” you might have to hit it again…but if you hit it bad and sell out…that’s ok 🤦🏻‍♂️

So why not start the game from where you would have hit the break shot “good defensively” 🙄 and start from there

and you’re able to win from the get go.


Now:

You’re saying you want to keep it as pure as possible to the “real” game…so just start with the ball on the “spot” and you put the cue ball in one of the head pockets against the face…your pocket is on the side of wherever you put the cue ball…go ahead and back cut it for the win if you want 😬…..now this is a real game scenario to start with.

Start like this and do what you want, pretty easy.
 

unoperro

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I say the only thing different from standard 1 pkt is the opening break. Perhaps start with cueball on the foot spot and object frozen on the end rail 1 ball width away from opponents pocket. Have to execute a legal shot to open the game.
This is a real possible scenario from the end game , with the exception of no foul or restart.
 

lll

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vero beach fl
you know guys
one ball onepocket has been around forever
people seem to play it just fine
starting with the object ball frozen to the rail and no offensive shot to start
why reinvent the wheel????????
just sayin
icbw
 

beatle

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sheldon, thats the way its always been played. one of the two ways you said.

of course as in all games in different places the people change things as they see fit.
 

Ratamon

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I say the only thing different from standard 1 pkt is the opening break. Perhaps start with cueball on the foot spot and object frozen on the end rail 1 ball width away from opponents pocket. Have to execute a legal shot to open the game.
This is a real possible scenario from the end game , with the exception of no foul or restart.
Possible but rare. This only happens when the opponent pocketed the last ball on the table in a neutral pocket and left you froze to the rail.

P.S. Ok, it can also happen on some gaffe spots like “any ball I pocket in your hole doesn’t count” etc
 

unoperro

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Possible but rare. This only happens when the opponent pocketed the last ball on the table in a neutral pocket and left you froze to the rail.

P.S. Ok, it can also happen on some gaffe spots like “any ball I pocket in your hole doesn’t count” etc
Read my post again. Think. Think some more. Maybe you will understand why I believe it is a fair break/opening.20210403_222253.jpg
 

NH Steve

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The biggest thing for me about all this right now is the opening shot.

We’ve never played where you can’t win on the first shot. Just doesn’t make sense.



You’re saying you have to play a “defensive” shot to start and if you hit it
good” you might have to hit it again…but if you hit it bad and sell out…that’s ok 🤦🏻‍♂️

So why not start the game from where you would have hit the break shot “good defensively” 🙄 and start from there

and you’re able to win from the get go.


Now:

You’re saying you want to keep it as pure as possible to the “real” game…so just start with the ball on the “spot” and you put the cue ball in one of the head pockets against the face…your pocket is on the side of wherever you put the cue ball…go ahead and back cut it for the win if you want 😬…..now this is a real game scenario to start with.

Start like this and do what you want, pretty easy.
Players do not seem to want the game to be won on the first shot however. I'm not making that up. Even Beenie when he talked about the game being played at Johnston City described the whole idea of an opening shot that was defensive.

As far as I know, there has only been one sort of major 1B1P tournament -- and that was at Buffalo's last May. I had absolutely nothing to do with those rules. However, in the rules that I helped put together above, we did address two things that were seen to be issues at Buffalo's -- one being they allowed unlimited back scratches at Buff's, which allowed some games to drag on with as many as 5 balls on the table; the other being there was no clear simple definition of what constituted a defensive opening shot. That is why I came up with the option of setting foul limits, and the option of rerack if the breaker leaves the ball too close to their hole to consider it a "defensive shot" (within one diamond). The One diamond was arbitrary, based on conversations back and forth here. The two "options" for foul limits I came up with are "Sudden Death" and "Needing 3 is loss of game".

I'm not trying to invent or reinvent the game -- just clarify rules that players can understand and TD's would be amenable to based on the feedback I get from suggestions. They are using these rules (I think) for the Tuesday night One Pocket "mini" at DCC this year (needing 3 is loss of game option). Ray Hansen is going to be streaming it and I plan to be there that night. Ray is getting some extra added money and jacking the entry fee to I believe 200 (the mini's are usually like 25) to attract more top players into it. I'm looking forward to it, and Ray has given me the nod for doing commentary, so I am all in :)
 

NH Steve

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That doesn't seem fair........mandate the rules........offer up some questionable reasoning.......and then play dodge ball when asked to explain.
Who does that...........oh, yeah......
I'm not mandating the rules. The DCC plays with the rules they want to. They might be mine, but no way did I or could I mandate them -- unless maybe I added enough $$ anyway. Nor am I playing dodge ball. You are never satisfied with my explanations for about anything, and I usually lose interest in trying to argue with you after a while :)
 

stevelomako

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Detroit, MI
Players do not seem to want the game to be won on the first shot however. I'm not making that up. Even Beenie when he talked about the game being played at Johnston City described the whole idea of an opening shot that was defensive.

As far as I know, there has only been one sort of major 1B1P tournament -- and that was at Buffalo's last May. I had absolutely nothing to do with those rules. However, in the rules that I helped put together above, we did address two things that were seen to be issues at Buffalo's -- one being they allowed unlimited back scratches at Buff's, which allowed some games to drag on with as many as 5 balls on the table; the other being there was no clear simple definition of what constituted a defensive opening shot. That is why I came up with the option of setting foul limits, and the option of rerack if the breaker leaves the ball too close to their hole to consider it a "defensive shot" (within one diamond). The One diamond was arbitrary, based on conversations back and forth here. The two "options" for foul limits I came up with are "Sudden Death" and "Needing 3 is loss of game".

I'm not trying to invent or reinvent the game -- just clarify rules that players can understand and TD's would be amenable to based on the feedback I get from suggestions. They are using these rules (I think) for the Tuesday night One Pocket "mini" at DCC this year (needing 3 is loss of game option). Ray Hansen is going to be streaming it and I plan to be there that night. Ray is getting some extra added money and jacking the entry fee to I believe 200 (the mini's are usually like 25) to attract more top players into it. I'm looking forward to it, and Ray has given me the nod for doing commentary, so I am all in :)

I guess I understand where you’re coming from.

It’s just always killed me that people try to make some things dumbed down for the better players instead of learning and trying to get better themselves.

So if you need 3 balls you lose? Ouch.


I do think this might be one way to go if these little races to 3 are taking too long. After 2 hours if it’s 1-1 or 2-2 they play one ball one pocket from there.


After a few tournaments everywhere most of it will get worked out how it needs to be. 🙄 👍🏻
 
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