One Ball One Pocket

[cincy_kid]

200 posts into this thread I've realized why this is the way the game has started in 98% of the 1b1p games I've ever played: it is really hard to devise and execute an offensive shot at your hole. You might try to kick one rail and cut it into your pocket, but good luck to you...you're much more likely to leave an easy bank. When you have to break off the rail from the center position, the break shot is all about survival, not selling out. A successful break is one that doesn't leave your opponent a shot. Breaking from that position is uncomfortable, and not easy, so I've often felt it held out too many chances to screw up and it might be better to play with the cue ball in hand behind the line so that the break shot wasn't disadvantageous. But after reading this long discussion about how to precisely state the rule about breaks so that the breaker can't and won't try any offensive shots, clarity strikes: just start with the cue ball frozen on the center of the rail and let the breaker do whatever they want. KISS, purity.

Post #23

 

[stevelomako]

At the golf course one day I was a last minute replacement for a foursome.

The first Par 3 180yards, I made a hole in one.

The guys said “Oh, that’s no good, we don’t count those, we play that you can only get on the green, you lose a stroke and hit again”


You’re all getting to be too much with this.

 

[NH Steve]

This is all you actually need to play:


One Ball One Pocket

1. Begin with one ball frozen to the center of the foot rail, B-I-H from the kitchen.
2. Breaker must open wth a defensive shot.

But clearly you also need to at least decide if you are playing standard One Pocket as if the score is 7-7, or if you are playing sudden death, because those two forms seem to both be popular. Likewise for some players, you will need to define “defensive shot”. I think the simplest is as I did above — you can’t break and leave the OB within a diamond of your hole, or opponent can call for a re-break if they want.

I’m ready to play — let’s go — whichever way you like. That’s simple

 

[darmoose]

Basically this is all you actually need to play:


One Ball One Pocket

1. Begin with one ball frozen to the center of the foot rail, B-I-H from the kitchen.
2. Breaker must open wth a defensive shot.

But clearly you also need to at least decide if you are playing standard One Pocket as if the score is 7-7, or if you are playing sudden death, because those two forms seem to both be popular. Likewise for some players, you will need to define “defensive shot”. I think the simplest is as I did above — you can’t break and leave the OB within a diamond of your hole, or opponent can call for a re-break if they want.

I’m ready to play — let’s go — whichever way you like. That’s simple

Steve,

"the rain in Spain stays mainly on the plain".......by jove, I think you've got it.

I think it is wise to keep it to those two rules with an explanation of what a defensive shot is and the option for the opponent if violated.
I think it is very wise to allow the players to decide how they wish to play fouls and spotting balls or not.


.....

 

[NH Steve]

Steve,

"the rain in Spain stays mainly on the plain".......by jove, I think you've got it.

I think it is wise to keep it to those two rules with an explanation of what a defensive shot is and the option for the opponent if violated.
I think it is very wise to allow the players to decide how they wish to play fouls and spotting balls or not.


.....

Hallelujah!!! Can I get an Amen?!?

 

[Dennis "Whitey" Young]

I have an inquiry, for on line I found a game rule that stated in essence that; " the cb is froze center diamond head rail, ob froze center diamond foot rail, first to score in their pocket wins, a foul is loss of game.

Question: is this version of OB-OP game 'generally' or 'always' played that a foul is a loss of game?

If so, I am not a real fan, for if a player hangs the winning ball in their scoring pocket and the opponent can not dig it out, it then is game over, for you can not follow it in and scratch, nor can you jump the cb off the table, for that is an automatic loss.
So therefore,
Just hanging the ball wins you the game. I like a game being won if you pocket the ball!

Comments, anyone, I am very interested in this!
Whitey
Amen! Steve!

 

[Bob Jewett]

... the OB within a diamond of your hole,...

Are you measuring with the center or the edge of the ball?

 

[BRLongArm]

Tobermory: Except that is not how the game is played in most parts of the country. The opening shot you propose makes the break MUCH more difficult, too difficult for most intermediate players or beginners. Our mandate is not to reinvent the game. As I have said repeatedly, we are searching for a problem that doesn't exist. When an angle shooter tries to cheat and not play safe, what is the universe of his outcomes? Make it: loss of game. Hang in the jaws of the pocket: Loss of game. Shoot it towards your pocket but not close: Opponent clears it or banks it in his hole. What is the problem? You want to litigate the rule so if a guy double kisses it and it goes towards his pocket accidentally, he is punished? Come on. The fewer the rules, the better. KISS. The only opening shot outcomes that matter is a made ball or a hung ball. Make both loss of game and there is no problem.

 

[darmoose]

I have an inquiry, for on line I found a game rule that stated in essence that; " the cb is froze center diamond head rail, ob froze center diamond foot rail, first to score in their pocket wins, a foul is loss of game.

Question: is this version of OB-OP game 'generally' or 'always' played that a foul is a loss of game?

If so, I am not a real fan, for if a player hangs the winning ball in their scoring pocket and the opponent can not dig it out, it then is game over, for you can not follow it in and scratch, nor can you jump the cb off the table, for that is an automatic loss.
So therefore,
Just hanging the ball wins you the game. I like a game being won if you pocket the ball!

Comments, anyone, I am very interested in this!
Whitey
Amen

OBOP IMHO is intended to be a brutal gambling game that moves pretty fast (gamblers that think they have the nuts like that a lot).

Yes, hanging the OB often times wins the game......puts a lot of emphasis on "pocket speed".....don't you see?

That's a great talent to develop for playing OP BTW........

 

[darmoose]

Hallelujah!!! Can I get an Amen?!?

Glad to give you an..AMEN, Steve............but, did it have to take ....203 posts? Do you get paid by the post?

 

[Rt66]

I second this Amen motion.

OBOP is meant to be fast and deadly (sudden death), which is a large part of its attraction.

Truth be told, players stipulating to tweak the rules has always been an option, but nice to see it made formal on this forum.

So glad to see this fun game getting more attention. Much thanks to Steve, Darmoose, et al.

PS: Can’t wait for the posts re starting at the out hole in golf. Talk about fun.

 

[Dennis "Whitey" Young]

OBOP IMHO is intended to be a brutal gambling game that moves pretty fast (gamblers that think they have the nuts like that a lot).

Yes, hanging the OB often times wins the game......puts a lot of emphasis on "pocket speed".....don't you see?

That's great talent to develop for playing OP BTW........

Yes, I see very well! I like making it for a win, not hanging it for the win!
So is it 'generally' or 'always' played where a foul is a loss of game, when you start the game with the cb frozen to the head rail!
A direct answer, please! Someone must know!
Thank you, for the previous response, and thank you in advance for this response if you know the answer. Anyone!
Whitey

 

[sheldon]

Yes, I see very well! I like making it for a win, not hanging it for the win!
So is it 'generally' or 'always' played where a foul is a loss of game, when you start the game with the cb frozen to the head rail!
A direct answer, please! Someone must know!
Thank you, for the previous response, and thank you in advance for this response if you know the answer. Anyone!
Whitey

I've only ever played it where balls spot when you foul. I would not be opposed to trying it the other way, but have never come across someone that wants to do it that way.

 

[Tobermory]

Yes, I see very well! I like making it for a win, not hanging it for the win!
So is it 'generally' or 'always' played where a foul is a loss of game, when you start the game with the cb frozen to the head rail!
A direct answer, please! Someone must know!
Thank you, for the previous response, and thank you in advance for this response if you know the answer. Anyone!
Whitey

I've mostly played it with the cue ball frozen to the rail, and have never played it where a foul is a loss of game. And I wouldn't choose to to do it that way...we don't do that it on regular one pocket...why in 1b1p?

 

[sheldon]

...have never played it where a foul is a loss of game. And I wouldn't choose to to do it that way...we don't do that it on regular one pocket...why in 1b1p?

I'm guessing it's because people want to take the name of the game 100% literally.

 

[darmoose]

I've mostly played it with the cue ball frozen to the rail, and have never played it where a foul is a loss of game. And I wouldn't choose to to do it that way...we don't do that it on regular one pocket...why in 1b1p?

Hi Tobes................you also don't freeze the CB to the head rail to break in OP, so why do it in OBOP?

 

[Dennis "Whitey" Young]

So when the cb is frozen to the rail then you can shoot at your hole, and it can be played either a foul is a loss or not.
So,
if on a foul and it is not a loss of game, and you score then the ball spots up and you continue the inning as Bob has stated the game is played, and there is only one ball on the table.
thanks guys, that clears it up for me, if the above is true. LOL!
Whitey
Well one thing is certain, a foul being a loss of game would speed it up, if that is what you want!

 

[Bob Jewett]

Hi Tobes................you also don't freeze the CB to the head rail to break in OP, so why do it in OBOP?

Because in OP it is not possible to have the cue ball in hand with only one object ball on the table. And if there are two object balls on the table, one of them is on (or near) the foot spot. It is possible for a single object ball and the cue ball to be frozen to cushions.

But I think argument by similarity is unconvincing.

 

[Tobermory]

Hi Tobes................you also don't freeze the CB to the head rail to break in OP, so why do it in OBOP?

D'moose, fair question. As we've learned through this discussion, the game needs to get started in a way that doesn't provide a way for the breaker to win or get a huge advantage. Please see post #200 for my reasons why the frozen cueball is the best way to keep that from happening.

 

[Tobermory]

Tobermory: Except that is not how the game is played in most parts of the country. The opening shot you propose makes the break MUCH more difficult, too difficult for most intermediate players or beginners. Our mandate is not to reinvent the game. As I have said repeatedly, we are searching for a problem that doesn't exist. When an angle shooter tries to cheat and not play safe, what is the universe of his outcomes? Make it: loss of game. Hang in the jaws of the pocket: Loss of game. Shoot it towards your pocket but not close: Opponent clears it or banks it in his hole. What is the problem? You want to litigate the rule so if a guy double kisses it and it goes towards his pocket accidentally, he is punished? Come on. The fewer the rules, the better. KISS. The only opening shot outcomes that matter is a made ball or a hung ball. Make both loss of game and there is no problem.

I've never played the game anywhere except in California. Yes, the break is more difficult but it is not impossible and can be learned. Try it a few dozen times and see how you do. Intermediate players can learn how to survive the break shot problem. Beginners will suffer, but they will suffer playing this game against anyone who is not a beginner.