One Ball On Spot, Cueball Uptable Corner

Cowboy Dennis

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When these situations come up I am going to save & post them just to show what different great players do from these leaves. Of course, an inch or two makes all the difference (doesn't it always?:p) but it'll still be fun. I think it'll be interesting to see what different players do in this spot.

These first two layouts come from the 1991 Legends Of One Pocket-Philadelphia Style tournament and feature Mizerak and Varner.

I can't go through the games shot by shot so I'll just show the leave the shooter left and tell you what happened. Best I can do.

By the way, this Mizerak/Varner match is a semi-final, the other semi featured Hopkins/Cook. This was a very good match and you should see it. It runs almost 4 hours & two DVD's and is worth every penny. It's available here:http://www.1vshop.com/Accu-Stats/st...+Mizerak++vs.+Nick+Varner+(DVD)+<B>+(SF)+</B>

Anyway, here is the 1st layout with Miz shooting.

mizvarner.jpg

He banked the ball back under him to his left and left Varner this straight-back. Varner almost drained it:

mizvarner1.jpg

A few shots later in the same game Mizerak left Varner here and Nick tried the same thing, banking the ball back to his right:

varnermiz.jpg

He left a two-railer that Miz put very close to his pocket:

varnermiz1.jpg

So, if you're keeping score (as I am), that's 0-2 for good players safely banking that ball back up under them:).

Dennis
 

treeMan

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I love it when players leave me the first bank, I hit it good and have won some games with it.

The second leave is a two railer, and I don't see a lot wrong with that. Is that two railer a comfortable shot for top players (it's def not for me)? What do you do with the cueball, do you load it up with top right?

I guess what I'm saying is that the safety, shot twice here, can be a good shot if hit properly with the obj ball ending closer the the side rail and side pocket. If shot as in the first example, that's obviously no good.

tree
 

lll

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I love it when players leave me the first bank, I hit it good and have won some games with it.

The second leave is a two railer, and I don't see a lot wrong with that. Is that two railer a comfortable shot for top players (it's def not for me)? What do you do with the cueball, do you load it up with top right?

I guess what I'm saying is that the safety, shot twice here, can be a good shot if hit properly with the obj ball ending closer the the side rail and side pocket. If shot as in the first example, that's obviously no good.

tree

treeman
this thread may give an alternative next time you are faced with this situation
http://www.onepocket.org/forum/showthread.php?t=7692

dennis
thank you for making major contributions with the threads you post for the education of us onepocketeers:)
 

treeMan

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treeman
this thread may give an alternative next time you are faced with this situation
http://www.onepocket.org/forum/showthread.php?t=7692

dennis
thank you for making major contributions with the threads you post for the education of us onepocketeers:)

Thanks lll, I've read that thread and was thinking out load here about which safety is better (the one shot here or the straight hit towards the opponent's side rail).

tree
 

fred bentivegna

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I certainly agree, the pool is the most interesting, not the squabbles.
Rod.

I couldnt agree more. However, as I get old, the Random Access Memory in my brain gets completely used up in thread beefs, leaving nothing left for what I would really like to do, onepocket info, strategy and war stories.

Beard
 

Cowboy Dennis

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I love it when players leave me the first bank, I hit it good and have won some games with it.

The second leave is a two railer, and I don't see a lot wrong with that. Is that two railer a comfortable shot for top players (it's def not for me)? What do you do with the cueball, do you load it up with top right?

I guess what I'm saying is that the safety, shot twice here, can be a good shot if hit properly with the obj ball ending closer the the side rail and side pocket. If shot as in the first example, that's obviously no good.

tree

tree,

I looked back at Miz's shot after I saw your post. He followed the object ball and the cueball hit the siderail and then went near the headrail. His body blocked the camera's view of the object ball as it came back towards his pocket but I'm confidant in saying that he most likely shot the ball very wide and it had no chance of going in his pocket even though it ended up several inches from his pocket.

All in all I'd still say the players are 0-2 shooting the "back under them" bank safety from that spot even though Miz would probably have had to stop the cueball to make that two-railer, making it a no-go.

Dennis
 

Cowboy Dennis

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I certainly agree, the pool is the most interesting, not the squabbles.
Rod.

I couldnt agree more. However, as I get old, the Random Access Memory in my brain gets completely used up in thread beefs, leaving nothing left for what I would really like to do, onepocket info, strategy and war stories.

Beard

Well Freddy, if poolplayers had self-control, they wouldn't be poolplayers:).

P.S. Part of the enjoyment of being in a poolroom is the sitting around telling stories, exaggerated though some are, and listening to guys that have been around a while tell tales of the guys that came before. So much of our sport's history is word of mouth that it'll always be important.

Dennis
 

NH Steve

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Well Freddy, if poolplayers had self-control, they wouldn't be poolplayers:).

P.S. Part of the enjoyment of being in a poolroom is the sitting around telling stories, exaggerated though some are, and listening to guys that have been around a while tell tales of the guys that came before. So much of our sport's history is word of mouth that it'll always be important.

Dennis
Likewise, here, in our virtual One Pocket poolroom -- the best things I can think of, not in any order:

The stories that are told
The game education
Meeting and mixing with fellow players (at least virtually)


PS -- thank you Dennis for what you add
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Here's another layout with one ball on the spot and the cueball uptable. Justin Hall playing SVB at the 2013 DCC. It's Hall's shot. He played the generally accepted safety, banking the ball back to his right, giving up a straight-back bank to SVB.

Good players are so far 0-3 playing this safety.

jhallshot.jpg

jhallleave.jpg

SVB banked the ball a little short:

svb's shot.jpg
 

Tom Wirth

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Here's another layout with one ball on the spot and the cueball uptable. Justin Hall playing SVB at the 2013 DCC. It's Hall's shot. He played the generally accepted safety, banking the ball back to his right, giving up a straight-back bank to SVB.

Good players are so far 0-3 playing this safety.

View attachment 8137

View attachment 8138

SVB banked the ball a little short:

View attachment 8139

With the cue ball that far off the back rail I am more inclined to bank the spotted ball one rail off the side rail toward my pocket with slight inside english but when the cueball is closer to or along the top rail and within a diamond of the side cushion I still prefer to bank the spotted ball back up table on my side somewhere past the first daimond beyond the side pocket and approximately one diamond away from the side rail. I want the cue ball of course as close to the bottom cushion as possible and no further than half way across the table. The cue ball will be my priority in how high the object ball gets. I really do not mind if my opponent chooses to play the one rail shot back toward his pocket from this position because this is a low percentage shot for most anyone, and if they should miss this shot long or short, and the speed is a little off, I can reap the reward of getting the shot shown here in this last image.

Many times this leave is a double kiss for the bank back.

My end game rule on shooting the long banks is to leave the cue ball and the object ball on the same side rail should I miss the shot. By leaving the cue ball on a diagonal to the object ball there is a high probability of leaving a relatively easy cross bank which has a built in safety attached. I hold the same rule about shooting the two railer. If I have a big angle to play the two rail shot using the side rail first and playing my cueball across the table to my side then my speed control is not as great an issue.

Tom
 
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NH Steve

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Here's another layout with one ball on the spot and the cueball uptable. Justin Hall playing SVB at the 2013 DCC. It's Hall's shot. He played the generally accepted safety, banking the ball back to his right, giving up a straight-back bank to SVB.

Good players are so far 0-3 playing this safety.

View attachment 8137

View attachment 8138

SVB banked the ball a little short:

View attachment 8139
Couple things -- if I was Justin Hall I would not have been happy with my safety on that spot shot, and really crossing my fingers seeing what I just left for SVB. On the other hand, SVB's speed was a little off and it looks to me like he left a one-railer that Justin should have come real close on if he didn't bury:
 

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androd

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My end game rule on shooting the long banks is to leave the cue ball and the object ball on the same side rail should I miss the shot. By leaving the cue ball on a diagonal to the object ball there is a high probability of leaving a relatively easy cross bank which has a built in safety attached.

Tom

Yeah, when I looked at the the way SVB shot the one railer, I though inside English would've opened the bank more and the CB would have been closer to the opposite long rail, although nearer the side pocket.
Rod.
 

Tom Wirth

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Though I've played in a number of tournaments over the years most of my experience has been in the gambling arena. Maybe not as high of stakes as some on this forum but I've had my innings here and there. I acknowledge there is a difference in that in a tournament you only have one chance to get through to the next round where as while gambling there is always another game, so the risk factor is somewhat lessened.

Still, I like the idea of give a little to get a little more. In other words; I will offer a low percentage shot (as I believe the safety I described in my previous thread to be) in the hopes of getting a higher percentage shot in return. My motto: I will catch more fish with a worm on the hook! Sometimes the fish will win but I still like my odds on these type of shots.

Tom
 

Cowboy Dennis

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SVB at the ready playing Shannon Murphy. It's SVB's shot and he played the standard safety, banking the ball back to his right. He left a free 2-Railer.

Good players are now 0-4 playing this shot.
svb's shot1.jpg

svb's shot2.jpg

svb's leave.jpg
 

Tom Wirth

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With the cue ball that far off the back rail I am more inclined to bank the spotted ball one rail off the side rail toward my pocket with slight inside english but when the cueball is closer to or along the top rail and within a diamond of the side cushion I still prefer to bank the spotted ball back up table on my side somewhere past the first daimond beyond the side pocket and approximately one diamond away from the side rail. I want the cue ball off course as close to the bottom cushion as possible and no further than half way across the table. The cue ball will be my priority in how high the object ball gets. I really do not mind if my opponent chooses to play the one rail shot back toward his pocket from this position because this is a low percentage shot for most anyone, and if they should miss this shot long or short, and the speed is a little off, I can reap the reward of getting the shot shown here in this last image.

Many times this leave is a double kiss for the bank back.

My end game rule on shooting the long banks is to leave the cue ball and the object ball on the same side rail should I miss the shot. By leaving the cue ball on a diagonal to the object ball there is a high probability of leaving a relatively easy cross bank which has a built in safety attached. I hold the same rule about shooting the two railer. If I have a big angle to play the two rail shot using the side rail first and playing my cueball across the table to my side then my speed control is not as great an issue.

Tom

Had Murphy left the cue ball within an inch or two of the end rail that shot would have been far more difficult. It may not have been there at all, but still, SVB made a great shot.

Tom
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Had Murphy left the cue ball within an inch or two of the end rail that shot would have been far more difficult. It may not have been there at all, but still, SVB made a great shot.

Tom

Pardon me, :sorry in viewing the shot again I now realize who was doing the shooting. Nice shot Shannon.

Tom,

Are you eating your carrots?:) Not anywhere in this entire thread have I shown a shot by anyone named Murphy, Shannon, or Shannon Murphy:sorry.

Dennis
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Couple things -- if I was Justin Hall I would not have been happy with my safety on that spot shot, and really crossing my fingers seeing what I just left for SVB. On the other hand, SVB's speed was a little off and it looks to me like he left a one-railer that Justin should have come real close on if he didn't bury:

True enough Steve but the point in this thread is to not leave a good reply shot at all. It doesn't matter if SVB left a cross-corner, the point is that Hall left a straight-back and an oppotunity to win.

Dennis
 
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