On the topic of Spots and handicaps

WillieNilly

Verified Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2010
Messages
98
Location
N.E Pennsylvania
So you got the usuall balls spots (9/8, 17/5 ect) , the ole "hit and pick", all the breaks, the infamous "hand span"...lol., mop handles:rolleyes:. ect. ect. ect.
some are traps , some are the nuts, depending whos gets what and a players weakness and strengths are.
the old addage " even a jackass can out run a race horse if its weighed down enough " is in effect.
so i guess my question if i had one would be, what game or games have you made or gotten where an unusual spot or rules was in play, the advantages and disadvanteges and gameplan involved of the spot/rule.

I thought if i had to play a pro caliber player id have to have somthing more then just ball weight , besides the 12/4 14/5 and all the breaks:p,

id have to add something along the lines of.....

1.they have a " x or no count " , where they have to make X amount of balls before they get credit twords their score.( ex.5 no count)
strategy :, more balls need to be made per inning , ofcourse.

2 I get . B I H anywhere on all Qball pocket scratches.
strategy : to me its not as strong as it sounds , cause pros dont scratch the qball in a pocket unintentionally very often, but may come into play at some point during a 3 -5 game stretch. especially if they have to follow your game ball in.

3. if they q ball scratch in pocket, all balls made during inning and in thier bin get spotted. all of em..if they got none they owe say 2 or 3.
strategy: again its not going to happen alot but does hurt them from making yours and following it in during a defensive play.,can be somewhat strong.

4. All balls made in my pocket i keep reguardless of scratchs or who made it.
Strategy: well, i may get a ball or two per game this way , and the game ball doesnt come back up on the intentional foul. thinking its semi strong. vrs a pro.

i could go on and on with some of the ones i thought about, and since it is a big part of the game and the making of games, and im clearly a novice at the game:eek:, id like to hear some stories,opinions and whathave ya.

it doesnt have to be a you vrs a worldbeater , could be just a subtle rule between to closely matched players. or based solely on a certain style of play.
 

Cowboy Dennis

Suspended
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Messages
11,123
Location
Detroit,Michigan
my question if i had one would be, what game or games have you made or gotten where an unusual spot or rules was in play, the advantages and disadvanteges and gameplan involved of the spot/rule.

This isn't terribly odd or anything but it was a real tough game. I gave 10-5 & the break to a guy and after he broke he got to keep shooting at his pocket until he missed.

It's tough taking an hour to win a game and then losing 3 games in 20 mins. or less.

After 2 days or so I was up $500-$600 and we changed the game to he got 10-5 & the break, keep shooting after the break until he missed and if he didn't like his shot after the break he could take ball-in-hand behind the line and shoot at his hole. This rule change ended up hurting him more than helping him. Strange but true.

That's probably the most weight(and oddest game) I gave up for any halfway serious money.

Dennis
 

WillieNilly

Verified Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2010
Messages
98
Location
N.E Pennsylvania
This isn't terribly odd or anything but it was a real tough game. I gave 10-5 & the break to a guy and after he broke he got to keep shooting at his pocket until he missed.

It's tough taking an hour to win a game and then losing 3 games in 20 mins. or less.

After 2 days or so I was up $500-$600 and we changed the game to he got 10-5 & the break, keep shooting after the break until he missed and if he didn't like his shot after the break he could take ball-in-hand behind the line and shoot at his hole. This rule change ended up hurting him more than helping him. Strange but true.

That's probably the most weight(and oddest game) I gave up for any halfway serious money.

Dennis

most interesting,very strong might i add.
so what was you thinking in giving that spot dennis?, im assuming he didnt runballs well at all.,were you hoping he would break em like 8 ball and just miss a shot leaving the table wide open , im interested in the strategy behind the moves.:)

oh , and to future posters, by "unusuall" it can be anything besides just ball weight,I just like to hear about the crazy " how the hell can you outrun that" kinda stuff.

all the best'
 
Last edited:

Cowboy Dennis

Suspended
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Messages
11,123
Location
Detroit,Michigan
most interesting,very strong might i add.
so what was you thinking in giving that spot dennis?, im assuming he didnt runballs well at all.,were you hoping he would break em like 8 ball and just miss a shot leaving the table wide open , im interested in the strategy behind the moves.:)

oh , and to future posters, by "unusuall" it can be anything besides just ball weight,I just like to hear about the crazy " how the hell can you outrun that" kinda stuff.

all the best'

WN,

He was actually a good ball runner playing 9-ball, he could get out if the balls were spread and laying decent. He played very well in tournaments but trembled a little for money. I think I gave him the 7(maybe the 6) playing 9-ball, I can't remember, but he did shoot straight. He just lacked one-pocket knowledge.

I knew his game and he knew mine, we were friends for years and played all the time. One night this game just evolved into what I first wrote mostly because he wanted to raise the bet from a friendly $10-$20 that we had been betting. I gave him more weight and we raised the bet to $25 a game and then to $50.

He broke normally and it was the right thing for him to do. He knew how to break and knew basic one-pocket theory so he wasn't completely helpless. I think he mostly wanted the break so he didn't have to fade mine.

P.S. I wasn't stealing at this game, it took two days for me to get up 10 games or so. There were many times when he broke and ran out 3, 4 or 5 games in a row. I just didn't give up that's all. It was probably the most brutal game I ever gave up for how easy it was to lose and how tough it was to win.

Dennis
 

androd

Verified Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
7,420
Location
New Braunfels tx.
Years ago I played a lot of one and safe. I'd take 8/4 and the break from better players. I've also played one and stop against players not so good.
I also played two and safe a lot, it's maybe like 10/7 or thereabouts.

I played many games of scratches don't count against guys that played my speed playing 10 ball, but didn't play one pocket.

I don't want to get this thread into what it's worth. We had a long thread about it. No one seemed to agree except Dennis and myself.

I have played hundreds of games of it with many different people. Jack Cooney was a master at getting people to play it.

Getting the break is a big advantage playing both these games, more so in the scratches don't count game. :)
Rod.
 

WillieNilly

Verified Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2010
Messages
98
Location
N.E Pennsylvania
I agree Androd , i didnt start this thread to argue the value of the spots discused, just to open the mind , pick your brains a lil bit and talk turkey, .......or duck if you must :D
 

androd

Verified Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
7,420
Location
New Braunfels tx.
I agree Androd , i didnt start this thread to argue the value of the spots discused, just to open the mind , pick your brains a lil bit and talk turkey, .......or duck if you must :D

Okay, funny story.
Cooney had been around San Antonio playing a gambler there some prop game including his scratches didn't count.

Roger Griffis heard about it and came over and was trying to match up with a scratches don't count game with Freddy. He was having no luck.

I said how will you play me, he said no your scratches must count.
I said give me 8/7 and the break and yours don't count. He said lets play.

I told Freddy get a bet, this is a good game.
I won 4 in a row, couple of hundred a game and he quit.
.
I asked Freddy how much you win, he said I didn't bet, you didn't have the best of it "He just doesn't know how to play it"

The next day I made a game with Freddy and was 4 games winner, his partner came in a sat watching and I lost 2 in a row so he began betting.
I won 4400 (6 games from Freddy, 5 from his partner)

After the game there was a pool player there from the across the river.
He said you didn't have a good game "He just doesn't know how to play it"
I made an appointment to meet him the next afternoon.

When I got there I asked if he'd been in, they said he got in a fight last night and got barred. :frus
Rod.
 

fred bentivegna

Verified Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Messages
6,690
Location
chicago illinois
Okay, funny story.
Cooney had been around San Antonio playing a gambler there some prop game including his scratches didn't count.

Roger Griffis heard about it and came over and was trying to match up with a scratches don't count game with Freddy. He was having no luck.

I said how will you play me, he said no your scratches must count.
I said give me 8/7 and the break and yours don't count. He said lets play.

I told Freddy get a bet, this is a good game.
I won 4 in a row, couple of hundred a game and he quit.
.
I asked Freddy how much you win, he said I didn't bet, you didn't have the best of it "He just doesn't know how to play it"

The next day I made a game with Freddy and was 4 games winner, his partner came in a sat watching and I lost 2 in a row so he began betting.
I won 4400 (6 games from Freddy, 5 from his partner)

After the game there was a pool player there from the across the river.
He said you didn't have a good game "He just doesn't know how to play it"
I made an appointment to meet him the next afternoon.

When I got there I asked if he'd been in, they said he got in a fight last night and got barred. :frus
Rod.

I Have similar "scratches" stories. In Oklahoma City at Truelove’s, One Eyed Tony Howard played me 8 to 6 and I played him that his scratches don’t count. I won with the game and about a month or so later Tony was killed in a car crash.

One other time, I had been saving the scratches hustle for a key spot and so I had never exposed it in the Billiard Café of Chicago, a poolroom I had been hanging out in for a few years.
I was in there one afternoon when Dr Bill and a contingent of pool players came in, just returning from an all night gamble at another pool room. Dr Bill and his crew had been gambling against a high rolling “dealer” (he did not work in Casinos) named Chino, and had come out on the short end for many thousands.

Chino was not ready to go to sleep and he hit on me for a game that I had offered earlier. He was a weak player and I had offered him 10 to 7, break apiece, and his scratches don’t count. The line was open and I could have bet whatever I wanted. I only had $200 on me and so I went to Dr Bill and told him I had been saving this game for a special occasion and this sure looked like it. Chino had at least $25,000 on him in cash.

For whatever reason Billy thought that I had made a bad bet, didn’t want anything to do with it, and wished me luck -- on my own. I don’t think Dr Bill was well versed in the scratches don’t count angle at that time. Everybody thought that I was in a trap – and that is exactly what you want everybody to think if you are going to take off a lemon score – and if I was going to proceed I would have to take a shot with that meager $200 -- one barrel.

We started playing $200 a game, I could have started at $2000 a game. Was I a little shaky? Damn right I was. With every roll going for Chino, I won the first and lost the next 2 and got broke. All the told-you-so’ers were now content with their decision to not support me in that game. (Even tho they had lost about 14k betting on a pool moron against Chino the night before)

As fate and fortune would have it, about a week later I am in the poolroom in the early afternoon, all by myself, and Chino comes in and is hot to play. Now, I have only got $40 as my bankroll. Chino was so eager to play that scratches game that he agrees to play for $10 a game. Now with me holding four barrels for protection, Jesus couldn’t have provided enough bad rolls to overcome how much of the nuts that I had in the game.

Bottom line is, I kept winning and we kept raising the bet. When the smoke cleared Chino had went for about $4500 off of that original $10 bet. You can only imagine how many games ahead I must have come.

Like Androd suggested, scratches-don’t-count has a hypnotic effect on the victim/recipient and they have a tough time quitting.

Beard

Later in the match, many of the people who were there the first time Chino and I played came in, and when they seen the carnage, started betting on me. It is another interesting story what I did to punish those that were unbelievers in my first encounter with Chino. But, that is another story.
 
Last edited:

lll

Verified Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
16,354
Location
vero beach fl
Years ago I played a lot of one and safe. I'd take 8/4 and the break from better players. I've also played one and stop against players not so good.I also played two and safe a lot, it's maybe like 10/7 or thereabouts.

Rod.
to my understanding one and safe means the player can make a ball and then play safe
one and stop its your shot sfter the player makes a ball
wouldnt you want the better player to play you one and stop
since the one and stop is tougher to me
and not the way stated above???:confused:
 

androd

Verified Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
7,420
Location
New Braunfels tx.
to my understanding one and safe means the player can make a ball and then play safe
one and stop its your shot after the player makes a ball
wouldn't you want the better player to play you one and stop
and not the way stated above???:confused:

Larry, since I was the player making one ball, I preferred to play safe after I made one.
 

tylerdurden

Verified Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
Messages
1,959
To comment on the previous conversations, I trapped myself once getting scratches don't count from a bad player, but he was going to 2. He wisely was firing at banks he was a dog to make, even when he missed maybe id get 5 and start moving again.... it seemed like every game he'd make a bank and be on the hill. Combine that with the fact that I wasn't moving enough balls to my hole with the scratches don't count... getting that kinda gets you outta playing one pocket. Scratches don't count is very deceptive I feel, you have to really know how to use it, which I didn't, and still dont -- but id be better off in that game now.
 

androd

Verified Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
7,420
Location
New Braunfels tx.
To comment on the previous conversations, I trapped myself once getting scratches don't count from a bad player, but he was going to 2. He wisely was firing at banks he was a dog to make, even when he missed maybe id get 5 and start moving again.... it seemed like every game he'd make a bank and be on the hill. Combine that with the fact that I wasn't moving enough balls to my hole with the scratches don't count... getting that kinda gets you outta playing one pocket. Scratches don't count is very deceptive I feel, you have to really know how to use it, which I didn't, and still dont -- but id be better off in that game now.

Tyler now you have experience (what you get, when you don't get what you want) You've gotten the part most miss, you can't move any away or to your pocket while ducking under the balls.
Congrats, :D most of the intelligentsia and the illitarati never got it. :sorry
Rod.
 

WillieNilly

Verified Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2010
Messages
98
Location
N.E Pennsylvania
so far so good, no arguments:),
but i ( and any other upNcomer) want t o know the logixc and strategy behind ex. getting free scratches.
how are you goin to use it against your opponenet , how are you going to protect yourself from the obvious wave of shooting out of the stack and off the head rail?
I hear of a game where you cant make a ball in your own hole and get like 13/2. and any balls made in the" 2" pocket they stay down except when made by 2plyer....or was it not?
im thinking the strategy for the 2 would be like sqweeeze practice, try to load up your hole cause they(13) are going for everything (you hope) that even looks like it will go so long as their not knokin balls into you pocket .
I can see a inexperienced (13) player getting too careless, thay might have 8/9/or10 balls and te rest are in front of opponents pocket, all because they didnt make sure that they have enough foresight OR JUST PLAIN DICIPLINE to resist the shot and play Dfence. which is stiil offensive cause 2 cant shoot into his hole?!
if 13 can pocket and scratch balls from the 2 hole its still a wash cause i feel that if you have to keep going backwards to get balls into play so you can win ,,,,,insanity...might have to make 20 balls to win at that game

am i on the right track here or am i suffering illogical neural disorder
.
I definetlly got ONE POCKET FEVER!!!
 

Fast Lenny

Verified Member
Joined
May 15, 2005
Messages
2,244
Location
Arizona & OCNY
I played a good player even one pocket, the deal was he played 4 no count and if he only ran 1-3 balls then those balls would count for me. It was not a total lock by any means because some good players can just trap you up and move balls until they are ready to run a bunch but it worked out for me and I came out winner in the game. :)
 

Cowboy Dennis

Suspended
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Messages
11,123
Location
Detroit,Michigan
so far so good, no arguments:),
but i ( and any other upNcomer) want t o know the logixc and strategy behind ex. getting free scratches.
how are you goin to use it against your opponenet , how are you going to protect yourself from the obvious wave of shooting out of the stack and off the head rail?

WN,

Part of the logic to the "scratches don't count" game is you can't win pushing out, you can only delay the game. Sooner or later you have to shoot at your hole to win.

Dennis
 

Cowboy Dennis

Suspended
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Messages
11,123
Location
Detroit,Michigan
I played a good player even one pocket, the deal was he played 4 no count and if he only ran 1-3 balls then those balls would count for me. It was not a total lock by any means because some good players can just trap you up and move balls until they are ready to run a bunch but it worked out for me and I came out winner in the game. :)

That's a lot of weight Lenny:). That would prevent him from taking any flyers, he would have to wait until he thought he could get all he needed.

Was he going to 8? Did he have to run two 4's? Nevermind, I just saw you were playing even.

What was the rule if he ran 6? Did he get the 4 and you get the 2? I've never heard of this game.

Dennis
 

Fast Lenny

Verified Member
Joined
May 15, 2005
Messages
2,244
Location
Arizona & OCNY
That's a lot of weight Lenny:). That would prevent him from taking any flyers, he would have to wait until he thought he could get all he needed.

Was he going to 8? Did he have to run two 4's? Nevermind, I just saw you were playing even.

What was the rule if he ran 6? Did he get the 4 and you get the 2? I've never heard of this game.

Dennis
He had to run 4 for more to get this balls. To be honest I cannot remember what happened if he made 6 and needed 2 balls or something like that, not sure if I made him go to 4 balls or just get his 2, I believe it was just get the 2 balls after the 6 because there would not be enough balls on the table unless we spotted them up.
 
Top