Offense vs. defense

gulfportdoc

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Was just reading an article about Alabama's great win in the College Football Championship last night by a team that was possibly the best to ever play college ball. The writer pointed out a quote by Coach Nick Saban which stuck out for me: The great Nick Saban provided what for him was a revelation halfway through the season: "Good defense doesn't beat good offense anymore." Saban promptly began focusing more on offense which provided lopsided victories for Bama, while being satisfied with a moderately decent defense.

I'm wondering if that isn't a good parallel to the way one-pocket has evolved?
 

jrhendy

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It sure seems that way Doc. The ball pocketing ability, along with the improvements in equipment, have changed the game. All the top players can play smothering defense, but they all seem a little more aggressive.
 

mr3cushion

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It sure seems that way Doc. The ball pocketing ability, along with the improvements in equipment, have changed the game. All the top players can play smothering defense, but they all seem a little more aggressive.

John, you've been around awhile longer than me, and I'm sure you've played more 1P than me. But, was around a lot of top players back in the day and watched/betted on big action. How do You think players before Efren like, Ronnie Eddie Taylor, Bugs, Artie would fair with these gunslingers?
 

Kybanks

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I believe the internet and a lot of 1 pocket matches on youtube have exposed so many to the moves of the game. Also this forum has been instrumental in helping people grow their shot selections, including mine. Whether the lurkers are participating or not, their is quite a lot of knowledge on here for viewing.
 

unoperro

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In football , defense has to be better then the other teams offense to shut them down period!
Now if your offense is able to manage the clock and score , you are in effect helping your defense .
In this last championship game I felt Alabama's secondary was their weakest link and perhaps could be exploited. Such was not the case. Saban's second string on offense is damn near equal to anybody else's starters,that is a huge advantage.

As for 1pkt , the shots have always been there , it was just considered poor play to try them. The offensive skill set of the average 1pkt. player is higher today then it has ever been.
IMHO🙂
 

sorackem

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This is exactly what I always thought Tom Wirth's book title 'Controlled Aggression' described.
My experience with One Pocket is thin compared to most of you, but what I fear most in a game is a ball-mover. Someone who knows how to orchestrate aggressive safeties, move multiple balls to their hole and clear them from mine.
It's like watching a piece of music; a Minor fall a Major lift...
I feel capable of competing shot for shot and controlling cue-ball, but someone who can work a table like a symphony can deflate my confidence.
 

Billy Jackets

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Bill Incardona is still alive, if anybody on here knows, it should be him.
I believe Artie Bodendorfer and Ronnie Allen would have been right in the mix with anybody. plus Ronnie had the gab factor, that was worth at least a ball against any body alive. {Or more} Also, Nick Varner was never an easy day.
I doubt if Tony Chohan, would have even played him. By the time they were done, Tony would have been ready for the rubber room. Nick did everything in slow motion, except beat that chewing gum into submission.
 
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mr3cushion

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Bill Incardona is still alive, if anybody on here knows, it should be him.
I believe Artie Bodendorfer and Ronnie Allen would have been right in the mix with anybody. plus Ronnie had the gab factor, that was worth at least a ball against any body alive. {Or more} Also, Nick Varner was never an easy day.
I doubt if Tony Chohan, would have even played him. By the time they were done, Tony would have been ready for the rubber room. Nick did everything in slow motion, except beat that chewing gum into submission.

When Artie got done with Nick, he swallow his $5,000 piece of gum!
 

Mike

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A little quiz! (for us older guys)😄😄😄😄 Which NFL coach said “Offense sells tickets defense wins games”? He had great defensive teams and went to the Super Bowl but never won.
 

J.R.

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A little quiz! (for us older guys)😄😄😄😄 Which NFL coach said “Offense sells tickets defense wins games”? He had great defensive teams and went to the Super Bowl but never won.

I know that Coach Bear Bryant, one of the most famous college coaches of all time, probably said it first. However, he might of stopped saying "offense sells tickets, defense wins games" after he had got to coach several great offensive talents in three future NFL star quarterbacks to the tune of Blanda, Namath, and Stabler.

There's only two teams who went to the Super Bowl 4 times and never won the Grand Prize. The Minnesota Vikings coached by Bud Grant and the Buffalo Bills coached by Marc Levy. Is it Bud Grant of the Vikings with the Purple People Eater defense or is it Marc Levy of the Buffalo Bills and The Greatest Show on Earth (to the best of my memory) offense who said, "Offense sells tickets, defense wins games?" It was probably Bud Grant based on your two clues.

The greatest college game I ever heard (had to listen to it on the radio) was the 1966 defensive battle between Michigan State and Notre Dame. It ended in a 10 to 10 tie. It was one of several football games labeled as the "Game of the Century." It sold a lot of tickets.
 

gulfportdoc

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...
The greatest college game I ever heard (had to listen to it on the radio) was the 1966 defensive battle between Michigan State and Notre Dame. It ended in a 10 to 10 tie. It was one of several football games labeled as the "Game of the Century." It sold a lot of tickets.
I didn't see that game, but I know that Notre Dame has always had a strong defense and good offense-- on the ground. And I love a good defensive squad, e.g. the '60s/'70s Pgh Steelers' "Steel Curtain".

But today's play --at least in college-- is gradually morphing into a passing game which, with good quarterbacks and excellent receivers who can move around, is hard to defend. In this year's semis Notre Dame played well and had good defense on the ground. But they just couldn't fade Bama's passing game. Ironically Bama's weakness in the past few years has been defending against a good passing game. That has probably lead to Saban and other coaches saying, "Alright, let's have a shoot-out". I still love to see a good defense though.
 

jrhendy

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John, you've been around awhile longer than me, and I'm sure you've played more 1P than me. But, was around a lot of top players back in the day and watched/betted on big action. How do You think players before Efren like, Ronnie Eddie Taylor, Bugs, Artie would fair with these gunslingers?

I believe they would hold their own Bill, one way or the other. I can’t see any of these guys staying in stroke and running balls when they played Artie, always froze to a ball or rail, and watching him run balls himself back in the day. Ronnie would throw in a little gamesmanship with his great moving and shooting, and the way he could win games that looked like he had no chance in, would discourage any player, no matter how good they were.

The will to win was strong in the top players and they would find a way to be competitive.
 
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mr3cushion

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I believe they would hold their own Bill, one way or the other. I can’t see any of these guys staying in stroke and running balls when they played Artie, always froze to a ball or rail, and watching him run balls himself back in the day. Ronnie would throw in a little gamesmanship with his great moving and shooting, and the way he could win games that looked like he had no chance in, would discourage any player, no matter how good they were.

The will to win was strong in the top players and they would find a way to be competitive.

Only, Amen!
 

baby huey

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Too me, having a effective defensive game with aggression will keep you in the game. With the great ball strikers, they will always have a chance because of their superior offensive game. But, only for so long. In long sets, defensive minded players will trap offensive players into mistakes and/or poor judgement on shots. Ronnie and Artie would hold their own. It's not this crop of players who only have the great offensive game as many players of yesteryear also possessed great offense.
 

mr3cushion

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Too me, having a effective defensive game with aggression will keep you in the game. With the great ball strikers, they will always have a chance because of their superior offensive game. But, only for so long. In long sets, defensive minded players will trap offensive players into mistakes and/or poor judgement on shots. Ronnie and Artie would hold their own. It's not this crop of players who only have the great offensive game as many players of yesteryear also possessed great offense.

Jerry, not sure about Ronnie, but, Artie was a, '100 ball runner'! When he first started playing, he studied Mosconi's patterns in straight pool in his book constantly! He ran the balls methodically, but, fluidly. In one pocket, he used that same, 'Mosconi' mind set, always looking for the, 'easy patterns' when it came time to be aggressive!

There's only 2 or 3 of us left on this site that Really know how Artie played, day in and day out! The Ghost, Billy I. and myself. More so, Ghost and I, obviously we lived it in Chicago.
 
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