Matching-up choice

Bmoretallpaul

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Personally, I believe you have to gauge your game against the opponent. If that person breaks horrible then giving the breaks is the way to go. If you are that person who breaks bad in your own game maybe getting the spot is the better choice. I've also seen were lesser players play better getting a ball. Psychological makes them feels and gives I only need 7 mentality.
 

vapros

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Watching this thread has reminded me of an old video in my collection, 2001 World's One Pocket event, race to 4, rack your own. Alex Pagulayan made a ball on his break three times in a row, going 7 and then 5 and then 8 and out, as Jose Parica watched from his chair. It proved nothing, but how would you like it? He beat Parica 4-3.
 

lfigueroa

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Personally, I believe you have to gauge your game against the opponent. If that person breaks horrible then giving the breaks is the way to go. If you are that person who breaks bad in your own game maybe getting the spot is the better choice. I've also seen were lesser players play better getting a ball. Psychological makes them feels and gives I only need 7 mentality.

I think this is the right way to think.

In every matchup there are many variables that a smart player will always take into consideration.

Lou Figueroa
 

Jimmy B

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My recollection is that both rack your own and the re-rack rule were popularized by their use at the DCC.

The rack your own was to avoid rack manipulation issues. The reason for the re-rack was to even things out for the short races to three. Then, as players went back to their home rooms all over the country, they began to use those rules when matching up, finding they liked them.

Lou Figueroa


Right, but rack your own was definitely getting in vogue well before Derby, match play and tournaments. I remember Grady and Efren's money match that probably every one of us have seen on YouTube and other things like that Roanoke Tournament where Dr. Bill and Grady played. That was several year prior in 94. I most def want to rack my own. The re-rack, I would just play either way. Wouldn't matter to me, too much...
 

androd

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Right, but rack your own was definitely getting in vogue well before Derby, match play and tournaments. I remember Grady and Efren's money match that probably every one of us have seen on YouTube and other things like that Roanoke Tournament where Dr. Bill and Grady played. That was several year prior in 94. I most def want to rack my own. The re-rack, I would just play either way. Wouldn't matter to me, too much...
Most do prefer to rack their own.
 

sorackem

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If that person breaks horrible then giving the breaks is the way to go. If you are that person who breaks bad in your own game maybe getting the spot is the better choice
Speaking from the perspective of someone with much less experience than most of you:
I'm either giving one or two balls - or - the breaks; So this player player is, theoretically, nearly as good.
It seems to me there is no real expectation that he can't break well. Frankly, a standard One Pocket break is not that hard to execute.
The question would be how well I believe I can fade that break versus how well do I think I can get to my number while keeping him from his.

I can break with far more confidence than the confidence I have in not making a mistake trying to neutralize a good break.
I have confidence in being able to find a 9th ball or 10th if I'm already eyeballing 8 to his 7 or fewer.
 

lfigueroa

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Speaking from the perspective of someone with much less experience than most of you:
I'm either giving one or two balls - or - the breaks; So this player player is, theoretically, nearly as good.
It seems to me there is no real expectation that he can't break well. Frankly, a standard One Pocket break is not that hard to execute.
The question would be how well I believe I can fade that break versus how well do I think I can get to my number while keeping him from his.

I can break with far more confidence than the confidence I have in not making a mistake trying to neutralize a good break.
I have confidence in being able to find a 9th ball or 10th if I'm already eyeballing 8 to his 7 or fewer.

On the issue of the 1pocket break, I have seen over the years that different tables break differently.

So IMO there is much to be learned and much knowIedge to be gained about the break to become proficient and adjusting to different conditions. I recall waiting for a tournament to begin in Olathe and a buddy of mine could not figure out the break on those tables, constantly scratching. So I showed him a way out and he broke well for his matches.

It’s not always so simple.

Lou Figueroa
 

sorackem

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On the issue of the 1pocket break, I have seen over the years that different tables break differently.
{..]
It’s not always so simple.
I appreciate that input, Lou.

My OP experience is limited to Gold Crown's, a Diamond and an Olhausen with good cloth, not particularly any heavy humidity and all with good cushions. I have played Continuous on a table with dead cushions and a good deal where the CB seemed to weigh as much as two of the object balls (a Bay Area retreat hotel with two large 8 footers in the basement bar during a Co. Christmas party - I was untouchable : ).

While not having to try to play on those Olathe tables, I appreciate that adjustments might have to be made. I have a lot of confidence that I'd be able to make some fundamental adjustments immediately and get to a better place within the next rack or two.

As has been said here already:
"I’ve seen Pro’s sell out breaks, scratch, and just not get good breaks"
"After awhile, the guy is going to get pretty good at laying the break down."
"You'll find the breaker will get into a groove in a long session, his break will get better and better."
"Well, that's easy enough to take care of if you know how to hit the rack."

I understand certain circumstances might well change a situation, but absent those extremes I would still tend to find my comfort level as I described.
More experience in playing off the break and moving balls might well guide me towards a different perspective.
Mostly what I was trying to convey is that I would not expect that an opponent that I was only giving one, possibly two balls to; would not be expected to have a decent break or be capable of making some informed adjustments.
 

sheldon

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What if you're the one getting weight? Which would you rather have? Are you confident your break will be worth a couple of balls?
 
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OldSchool

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This matching up discussion came up today between two guys, so let me get some opinions from you guys > Which do you think is a bigger spot, and which would you rather give up to a player who plays approx. 1-1/2 balls under you - 10-8/9-8 or all the breaks?

Old School

Update: So the guy who was getting the spot had his choice, and took the breaks...it was a fairly close session, they played for about 4 hours for $50 a game, and the guy getting the spot came out 2 games down. Also, just to add some more info, the guy giving the spot plays about the speed of our better players here on the site.

Old School
 

cincy_kid

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I would take the balls and half of all the breaks........seems pretty obvious .......to me.
If it were 8/6 8/7 then yes I would take the balls too, but I still have to go to 8 every game, so I I like being able to push balls towards my pocket every single game from the start and also have a certain % of the time, where they are not able to get out of my break and sell out the game or at least a decent lead.

That's just my preference, I don't feel 9/8 is much of a spot, 10/8 not much more than that. A better player is going to be able to get that extra ball or two especially if his opponent still has to get 8 balls.

Plus, as I think someone mentioned before, I never have to get out of a break, what's that worth? Remember my opponent is 1.5 balls better than me so I never have to fade their break. And the more games I break, I am going to get in a good groove and lay down some good ones. It may be different at pro level, but I feel at my skill level, all the breaks will benefit me more than getting 10/8, 9/8.
 
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JohnInNH

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This matching up discussion came up today between two guys, so let me get some opinions from you guys > Which do you think is a bigger spot, and which would you rather give up to a player who plays approx. 1-1/2 balls under you - 10-8/9-8 or all the breaks?

Old School
I would give the opponent the choice: give 10/8 or 9/8 or I take all the breaks for 2 balls?
 

JohnInNH

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it's about 8/7
it's about 8/7
My opinion regarding weight is a matter of fairness, there can only be one winner and when you add weight to the mix it's just a matter of interpretation, giving weight to the break is difficult, if a ball is made on the break a determination must be made to have a re-rack or continue playing, this changes the spot, giving weight favors the gambler. I prefer to play without weight, the best player wins. If you can't win at this, find another game.
 
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