Last Ball

wgcp

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If you both need the last ball on the table, and you cannot make it into your pocket... where is the best place to position the cue ball and object ball to ensure you will get the first shot... and you wouldn't let your opponent have a free shot...
 

newfosgatesucks

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Why, corner-hooked and the ball laid up in your hole, of course!

An example of the position of the balls is necessary...

I could preach some good generalizations handed to me, or beaten into me by some very good players. But illustrating it requires a poolbiz account, which I am too lazy to do.
 

wgcp

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Nfgs

Nfgs

Yeah and I am too stupid to know how to post on the wei talble...

I think the safest place is the cue ball on the third diamond from his hole, and the object ball just past the point of the side pocket on my side...

I was just wondering if anyone else looked for that type of leave?

Bille

P.S. Packing my stuff today... ya hoo...
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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wgcp said:
Yeah and I am too stupid to know how to post on the wei talble...

I think the safest place is the cue ball on the third diamond from his hole, and the object ball just past the point of the side pocket on my side...

I was just wondering if anyone else looked for that type of leave?

Bille

P.S. Packing my stuff today... ya hoo...



I dont see the lay out? Maybe thier isnt one. But I love these king off situations. These are the strongest part off my game.
 

wgcp

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Artie,
What I want to do is if the last ball is on the table, I want to learn and know that I will win from here... no luck, no hope for the other player, just lock them down...
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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wgcp said:
Artie,
What I want to do is if the last ball is on the table, I want to learn and know that I will win from here... no luck, no hope for the other player, just lock them down...



I cant give you a answer if I dont see were the balls are. I need to no the position off the balls and whoes shot it is.
 

wgcp

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[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@2Aafg4PbFk@[/CUETABLE]

I think if I can leave them here, I have the best position, my pocket is the one with the one ball past the side it is my opponents shot
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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wgcp said:
[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@2Aafg4PbFk@[/CUETABLE]

I think if I can leave them here, I have the best position, my pocket is the one with the one ball past the side it is my opponents shot


You can bank the one ball across sude but dont try to make it get it close too the pocket and you will reverse the position.

And if you make thev ball he will have a tough shot off the end rail.

If the one ball goes too the side pockeu and fezzes too the point with the cue ball down the end rail or near the end rail you are in big troulble.

But I wound just get it close too the side pocket without makeing it . And you wont have no bank and you will be in a little trouble from thier.
 

lll

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artie lets say its a proposion game

here are the rules

you get to put the cue ball and object ball anywhere on the table
you both need that one ball to win

he gets 10-1 on the money if he wins(it could even be even money )\
the point is where is the toughest set up to put him in?


you call which pocket is yours


your opponent has the shot you left him by placing the balls where you want them



where would you leave him for his first shot??????



i think this is bille question??
 

lll

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the layout above was bille's choice of where he would lrave the opponent.


right now we are not looking for the reply so there is no layout

you tell us where the balls should go
me or someone will put it in a weii table
 

NH Steve

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lll said:
artie lets say its a proposion game

here are the rules

you get to put the cue ball and object ball anywhere on the table
you both need that one ball to win

he gets 10-1 on the money if he wins(it could even be even money )\
the point is where is the toughest set up to put him in?


you call which pocket is yours


your opponent has the shot you left him by placing the balls where you want them



where would you leave him for his first shot??????



i think this is bille question??
You would also have to have a rule something like, both the cue ball and the object ball have to be placed at least one ball away from inside a pocket -- i.e. you could place an extra ball behind them, and the extra ball would fit cleanly, without falling in the pocket.

You could take turns doing this -- taking turns setting up the shot, and then you each shoot from there. I think the player setting up the shot should only shoot once (they would shoot second, since they set the shot up for their opponent), while the opponent should shoot first, and then also third -- to give them a chance to capitalize if they got out of the trap on the first shot. Kind of playing horse -- you get a letter if you scratch; you also get a letter whenever your opponent scores. You should also get a letter if you can't fit the extra ball between the pocket and the balls you placed, without touching the balls or the extra ball falling in the pocket -- i.e. you placed one of your balls too close to the pocket.

Actually, it would be more interesting if, after you start the game, each turn after that, you can pick up either the object or the cue ball to start the next turn, but not both. That way, you would be forced to be creative with the balls in different positions. Of course, if either player scores a ball, then the next player in turn places both, to start again. If the object ball is pocketed in a neutral pocket, then it would go on the spot, and you place the cue ball where you want... After a scratch, the next player can place both (like the start of the game).

We could call this, "One Pocket Horse" :D
 

lll

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NH Steve said:
You would also have to have a rule something like, both the cue ball and the object ball have to be placed at least one ball away from inside a pocket -- i.e. you could place an extra ball behind them, and the extra ball would fit cleanly, without falling in the pocket.

You could take turns doing this -- taking turns setting up the shot, and then you each shoot from there. I think the player setting up the shot should only shoot once (they would shoot second, since they set the shot up for their opponent), while the opponent should shoot first, and then also third -- to give them a chance to capitalize if they got out of the trap on the first shot. Kind of playing horse -- you get a letter if you scratch; you also get a letter whenever your opponent scores. You should also get a letter if you can't fit the extra ball between the pocket and the balls you placed, without touching the balls or the extra ball falling in the pocket -- i.e. you placed one of your balls too close to the pocket.

Actually, it would be more interesting if, after you start the game, each turn after that, you can pick up either the object or the cue ball to start the next turn, but not both. That way, you would be forced to be creative with the balls in different positions. Of course, if either player scores a ball, then the next player in turn places both, to start again. If the object ball is pocketed in a neutral pocket, then it would go on the spot, and you place the cue ball where you want... After a scratch, the next player can place both (like the start of the game).

We could call this, "One Pocket Horse" :D
steve i like that idea for a game "onepocket horse":)


but for this discussion id like to not make it too complicated


where would you leave the balls ???
and play it out from there.
i think thats the question of the thread
 

SJDinPHX

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lll said:
the layout above was bille's choice of where he would lrave the opponent.


right now we are not looking for the reply so there is no layout

you tell us where the balls should go
me or someone will put it in a weii table

I think I understand what Bille is asking, I just don't know how to respond. There are thousands of different scenarios, and cue ball/OB placements, where you could put your opponent in danger of giving up a shot of some kind.

Obviously, the optimum one would be a cornerhook. This however rarely presents itself, as would almost any other given situation. What I mean is, there are literally millions of possibilities. And don't forget, any worthy opponent, is trying to do the same thing to you.

All I can suggest is, whatever shot you come to the table with, you want to try and put your oppo in the worst possible place on the table, for him to play safe from, without leaving you some kind of bank, or shot. This is not always possible...some times you will be just trying not to give up a shot yourself
Sorry but I don't know how else to put it...It will be very rare that you will have the option of puting him in "the worst spot" imaginable, especially with only one ball on the table.

Hope this makes sense to you...That is why Artie kept looking for ball location.
 
Last edited:

NH Steve

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Here is one example -- player with pocket B to shoot -- this is a tough spot for pocket B to not leave something.

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@2AVUj3PPAj3Qchu4Rcpw@[/CUETABLE]
 

onepocketchump

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If anyone wins the game by making a ball from any of these positions then they deserve the win.

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@2Aavg4BDIf4CbVm2EVMj4PagP4QAWg3RYGe4kagP2kXKc4lAWg2lUGL3mYGe4mYSA4qVlbMy_Pocket_-_Opponent's_Shot&ZZ@[/CUETABLE]

There is almost no position on the table when there is just a cue ball and an object ball that there is not a proper defensive answer for. In other words no place that GUARANTEES you an offensive shot by virtue of the shot you left.

Being corner hooked with a hanging out ball is just about the only position which the opponent could not answer with a proper defensive move. Whether the opponent can execute that move is another story and there are some shots you can leave as bait against inexperienced one pocket players. The inexperienced player will often try the shot without understanding that missing it leaves a free shot. SOMETIMES they will make it and if they do then all the better because the percentages are against them that they will sell out more often than they make it.

I have paid dearly being on the receiving end of these bait shots which I took and sold out an easy bank for my opponent.
 

wgcp

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lll

lll

You hit the nail on the head with the reply... I just wanted to know if given the opportunity, where some of the worst possible scenerios would be...

I like the one-pocket horse idea though...

Thanks for the answers guys...

SJD, I guess more time and experience at the table is a must... i was looking for simple safes, but the answers are showing that might be very difficult to say the least...

Bille
 

onepocketchump

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NH Steve said:
Here is one example -- player with pocket B to shoot -- this is a tough spot for pocket B to not leave something.

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@2AVUj3PPAj3Qchu4Rcpw@[/CUETABLE]

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@2AUvk3PPAj3Qchu4Rcpw2UVUj2UVMj2UalB3kPAj2kThU2kRdk2kMOY@[/CUETABLE]

Slow roll the cueball and leave it as diagrammed, leaving some kind of suicide bank.

Only table roll can screw you here.
 

onepocketchump

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100 Minute Rack

100 Minute Rack

If you can get it you should buy the 100 minute rack between Allen Hopkins and Nick Varner. It took me about a year to get though it, kept falling asleep and it was VHS. BUT the game went like this. Nick got seven early on and Allen battled back to get to within one ball. At the end he lost because the table rolled off and instead of rolling up on the ball the table made it roll past the ball and gave Nick a clear shot which he made.

This is a classic in the uptable game. Just about the polar opposite of the Ronnie Allen/Scott Frost version of power one pocket.
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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SJDinPHX said:
I think I understand what Bille is asking, I just don't know how to respond. There are thousands of different scenarios, and cue ball/OB placements, where you could put your opponent in danger of giving up a shot of some kind.

Obviously, the optimum one would be a cornerhook. This however rarely presents itself, as would almost any other given situation. What I mean is, there are literally millions of possibilities. And don't forget, any worthy opponent, is trying to do the same thing to you.

All I can suggest is, whatever shot you come to the table with, you want to try and put your oppo in the worst possible place on the table, for him to play safe from, without leaving you some kind of bank, or shot. This is not always possible...some times you will be just trying not to give up a shot yourself
Sorry but I don't know how else to put it...It will be very rare that you will have the option of puting him in "the worst spot" imaginable, especially with only one ball on the table.

Hope this makes sense to you...That is why Artie kept looking for ball location.


I like your answers more and more MR SJD. You think I should give them yhe key. To end game play with one ball on the table. I am the only one that ever played it correct and new what I was doing.

Im not braging as you might think. I am happy because I no thee answer. Or should I not give the Answer SJD and waite tell everyone comes up with what thier answer is. And then give it out.

I have only told two people in life the answer. And it helped me win a lot off games. Both players needing one ball. And I no nobody else did it. Because that cant trick me because I see what they do and what is supose too be done.

But I realy dont want to give iy out. Because everyone will do iy . And If I ever play John again. I would feel a little redicoulous getting beat with my own shot.

And none off the great players did it and they dont do it now. But I no the answer. I dont no If I should keep it or give iy out.

What do you think SJD? I no all the old time players deserve too no . But what about the newer players. I could yell you in private when I see you. But You cant tell John.

Do you think you could do that? I will see what answers come up. And what people say . And then I will decide. If I give up all the answers and I cant shoot no more. I wont have anything left too win with.
 

jrhendy

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Artie Bodendorfer said:
I like your answers more and more MR SJD. You think I should give them yhe key. To end game play with one ball on the table. I am the only one that ever played it correct and new what I was doing.

Im not braging as you might think. I am happy because I no thee answer. Or should I not give the Answer SJD and waite tell everyone comes up with what thier answer is. And then give it out.

I have only told two people in life the answer. And it helped me win a lot off games. Both players needing one ball. And I no nobody else did it. Because that cant trick me because I see what they do and what is supose too be done.

But I realy dont want to give iy out. Because everyone will do iy . And If I ever play John again. I would feel a little redicoulous getting beat with my own shot.

And none off the great players did it and they dont do it now. But I no the answer. I dont no If I should keep it or give iy out.

What do you think SJD? I no all the old time players deserve too no . But what about the newer players. I could yell you in private when I see you. But You cant tell John.

Do you think you could do that? I will see what answers come up. And what people say . And then I will decide. If I give up all the answers and I cant shoot no more. I wont have anything left too win with.

If we play again, we could play one ball one pocket. It might cost me some $$, but I would learn.:) :)
 
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