Is low inside out on the break now?

[Skin]

I watch many of the live streams and pay particular attention to the break because I think it is a key shot. I have noticed that the trend seems to be away from low inside and freeze to the rail in favor of middle inside and leave the cb a few inches off the rail. Why???


Skin

 

[usblues]

Usually...

Usually...

...cause the table is breaking funny.Like the mechanic tightened down the rails in one place, or another with a different torque.I will bet the house no one here has seen a table mechanic using a torque wrench while setting up a table.Im of course refering to a small house,cheers,B

 

[SJDinPHX]

I watch many of the live streams and pay particular attention to the break because I think it is a key shot. I have noticed that the trend seems to be away from low inside and freeze to the rail in favor of middle inside and leave the cb a few inches off the rail. Why???


Skin

Skin,

Androd had something about that a while back. He uses center ball, NO english, and lets the ball drift wherever it goes, and usually winds up several inches away from the rail..Its not a bad strategy, and I guess it works for him...But I have always preferred breaking with middle (or inside) reverse english, and try to put the cue ball, as close to froze as I can, on the side rail. I would be afraid to try Rod's way, because I would be afraid of leaving a shot on the corner ball which often seems to leak toward your opponents pocket...Straight side english (not high or low) has always worked well for me. As far as how close to the rail I put the cue ball when breaking, it can vary from table to table..Sometimes the best spot, might be 10 inches or so from the side rail...I also use 1/2 to a full tip of inside 'straight side' english, depending on how new (or wet) the cloth is. The proper spot to break from, can vary greatly, from table to table..There is no need for ANY low or high english..Straight side english will work fine...Try it, you'll like it..

PS..On strange equipment, I may actually (ugh) practice the break a few times...then, lets flip the f-ing coin..

 

[CaliRed]

Skin,

Androd had something about that a while back. He uses center english, and lets the ball drift wherever it goes.

What the hell is center english? . I can see the center part...hitting without any follow or draw...center, but English means left or right or inside or outside or reverse or running. Is there more to this story?

 

[Scrzbill]

Leaving the cue ball a few inches off the just leaves your opponent more opportunities to get out of your break. Why would you want that? I always learned that having the cue ball stuck to the rail the second to third diamond up is the best break. When I achieve that on my breaks, I have made a good break. Anything less is failure. My self, I think it is a sign of laziness for those who break leaving their opponent a chance to get out of your break.

 

[beatle]

the best breakers in history mostly used somewhat high inside english and started the cueball from as close to the rail as they could and try to get the cueball as close to the side rail about 2 and a half diamonds up.. you vary by the table and ball conditions from that.

 

[lll]

the best breakers in history mostly used somewhat high inside english and started the cueball from as close to the rail as they could and try to get the cueball as close to the side rail about 2 and a half diamonds up.. you vary by the table and ball conditions from that.

thats what i always thought

 

[Pelican]

the best breakers in history mostly used somewhat high inside english and started the cueball from as close to the rail as they could and try to get the cueball as close to the side rail about 2 and a half diamonds up.. you vary by the table and ball conditions from that.

That's what Grady taught me when I took lessons from him.

Pel

 

[SJDinPHX]

What the hell is center english? I can see the center part...hitting without any follow or draw...center, but English means left or right or inside or outside or reverse or running. Is there more to this story?

OK Mr.Technical guy, I have corrected my verbage, so it is more "Banger Friendly"... Sheeeeesch..:frus

Da Beard McDuck Jr, Qualifried Perfeshunill Instroketer... ("Beat List" available via PM only)

PS..Also added how far I place the cue ball, from the side rail...>http://www.onepocket.org/forum/showpost.php?p=94470&postcount=3<
(just in case there are any OTHER "dim bulbs", besides you Gregger)..

 

[Deeman]

I always used inside high but, for some reason, do better with inside English, no top or bottom on the Diamonds especially before they get much play.

DeeMan
Dick's Gal Wrangler at DCC and Tunica!

 

[Skin]

Artie, who said he spent a great deal of time studying the break, thought low was the best way (not sure if he meant there was any english [Greg! ] involved). Personally, I do best with enough low inside to put a little curve on the cb. I get a good enough spread but, importantly, I usually can keep the opponent from seeing the bottom half of the cb when he steps up. Between the two - spread and cb leave - if prefer to have the cb leave because it makes it much harder to play out of the break on the first shot.

I am just guessing, but the reduced attention that seems to be given to freezing the cb on the rail nowadays leads me to think most guys are playing for the spread instead of leave. Might have something to do with the 8-and-out mentality of the game now. Don't know.

Skin

 

[SJDinPHX]

Artie, who said he spent a great deal of time studying the break, thought low was the best way (not sure if he meant there was any english [Greg! ] involved). Personally, I do best with enough low inside to put a little curve on the cb. I get a good enough spread but, importantly, I usually can keep the opponent from seeing the bottom half of the cb when he steps up. Between the two - spread and cb leave - if prefer to have the cb leave because it makes it much harder to play out of the break on the first shot.

I am just guessing, but the reduced attention that seems to be given to freezing the cb on the rail nowadays leads me to think most guys are playing for the spread instead of leave. Might have something to do with the 8-and-out mentality of the game now. Don't know.

Skin

Skin,

My cue swerves a little too, when its when it struck with straight side english..What you may not be noticing, is the low english you are using, is actually spent, by the time the cue ball reaches the rack...If it weren't, you would be risking drawing your cue ball, right into a scratch..You can instantly see, that the inside english you've imparted, is still on the cue ball, by the way it comes off the bottom rail.

My point is, keep it simple...If you are having success, with the way you are breaking, why change...However, I really don't really think you'll see any of the top guy's using low english (especially on a Diamond)..in fact most tend to use a little high, like Grady taught Pel..

It may appear to you that they a striking the cue ball below center...but most are hitting it with center inside, or very slightly above. The main thing in breaking, is making a good hit, (graze the head ball slightly) and the proper speed coming off the rail, to hide your opponent from the few balls you've hopefully gathered by your hole. With the cue ball Ideally close to, or frozen on the side rail.

 

[tylerdurden]

Well, I wont get into a big debate with all the champs here, i'll just state my opinion and high tail it out. I think there are a lot of misconception on high vs low when it comes to a cb that is actually rolling upon impact (ie not drawing anymore).

The short, crash course version is:

You can probably put more spin on the ball with low (vs high)
Low may squirt a tad more but it swerves a TON less, way more accurate (squirt is more or less predictable, swerve can change every minute)


Especially on wet equipment, i'd say low inside would be the most accurate and effective way to strike a break. I don't think these filipino monsters, who play on super wet equipment, hit everything very low for the fun of it. I think there are reasons for this rooted in efficacy that even they are probably not aware of. As for why it is out?? Equipment??

 

[gulfportdoc]

Good observations, Skin. There are obviously lots of variables in regards the break shot: CB placement, english, swerve, type/condition of cloth, and air moisture content.

Considering english, I've always heard that with the standard sized tip there are 3 gradations of CB side spin: 1 tip, 2 tips, and low side spin (e.g. low right). I've never researched that. My suspicion is that with a very small tip, say, 9 mm, more "tips" of spin could be applied. And with the modern low-deflection shafts, it seems that more spin can be imparted. There are some excellent slo-mo videos on the "High-speed Pool and Billiards Video Clips site".

So if that's true, then low right spin (breaking from the left side of the table) would impart the maximum inside spin in attempt to come shorter off the foot rail. With low right, as Skin said, I've seen some players (e.g. Mike Surber, Cliff Joyner) actually swerve the CB into the 1st/2nd ball hit, much the same in effect as the curve ball in bowling.

But it seems to me that a new, or super dry cloth will not only not permit much swerve, but will also allow more squirt. So much so that when I play on real dry equipment I have to aim for a fuller hit on the head ball in order to result in a thinner hit on it.

Doc

 

[Skin]

Dick, I am not using a draw stroke, just putting about 45 degrees of diagonal spin on the cb. I feel like this makes the cb hit higher up on the long rail so it will land in the right spot. At least it does on the GCs I play on. I know nothing about Diamonds.

Skin

 

[Skin]

Good observations, Skin. There are obviously lots of variables in regards the break shot: CB placement, english, swerve, type/condition of cloth, and air moisture content.

Considering english, I've always heard that with the standard sized tip there are 3 gradations of CB side spin: 1 tip, 2 tips, and low side spin (e.g. low right). I've never researched that. My suspicion is that with a very small tip, say, 9 mm, more "tips" of spin could be applied. And with the modern low-deflection shafts, it seems that more spin can be imparted. There are some excellent slo-mo videos on the "High-speed Pool and Billiards Video Clips site".

So if that's true, then low right spin (breaking from the left side of the table) would impart the maximum inside spin in attempt to come shorter off the foot rail. With low right, as Skin said, I've seen some players (e.g. Mike Surber, Cliff Joyner) actually swerve the CB into the 1st/2nd ball hit, much the same in effect as the curve ball in bowling.

But it seems to me that a new, or super dry cloth will not only not permit much swerve, but will also allow more squirt. So much so that when I play on real dry equipment I have to aim for a fuller hit on the head ball in order to result in a thinner hit on it.

Doc

Good analysis, Doc. On an unfamiliar table, I will start out conservative and predictable with Rod's break (which I like a lot), and then try to get more aggressive with the cb leave as I get the feel for things.

Skin

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

I watch many of the live streams and pay particular attention to the break because I think it is a key shot. I have noticed that the trend seems to be away from low inside and freeze to the rail in favor of middle inside and leave the cb a few inches off the rail. Why???


Skin

I don't know what any players use or what any trends are but I've never used anything but high/inside when breaking. I like my break quite a bit and wouldn't change it for anything.

Dennis

 

[tonygreen]

Thank you Skin and GulfpORTDoc posts 14,15 and 16 i aggree with (well said) I would only like to add that inside english struck around 4:30 with a dragging stroke almost a draw will enable you to make a ball on the break sometimes as often as 33 % of the time.

tABLE conditions must be considered but you can (I can make a ball on the break 20% of the time) and it that can make for a huge edge.

cheers

 

[Skin]

Thank you Skin and GulfpORTDoc posts 14,15 and 16 i aggree with (well said) I would only like to add that inside english struck around 4:30 with a dragging stroke almost a draw will enable you to make a ball on the break sometimes as often as 33 % of the time.

tABLE conditions must be considered but you can (I can make a ball on the break 20% of the time) and it that can make for a huge edge.

cheers

tony, glad you noticed that too. Another thing you get with the low inside break is the peripheral balls spreading to your hole and a thick center stack. Tough to play out of if you get the cb on the rail. With high or middle, the center of the stack does not stay together as well, which often provides some opportunities with banks.

Skin