How is 1P played where you play/watch: Whole ball or base of ball?

[vapros]

Sorackem, I have to believe that you are playing in joints where BIH, if not discussed, is established practice or house rule. What will you do about BIH when you go into a place where you have never been before and match up with a player you don't know?

P.S. What is the 'wider standard'?

 

[Dennis "Whitey" Young]

I think it is interest how a defunct rule, Whole Ball, that we all grew up playing by, is making a full circle come back. Remember in 8 ball with the cue ball behind the line and you would shoot into the side rail just below the line and reverse back into the kitchen to make a hit on your ball. Good Memories. In those days that line was god awful important, for every game was played from the kitchen!
Whitey
real games spot balls and play from the kitchen

 

[sorackem]

Sorackem, I have to believe that you are playing in joints where BIH, if not discussed, is established practice or house rule. What will you do about BIH when you go into a place where you have never been before and match up with a player you don't know?

P.S. What is the 'wider standard

Yes places and people I have played (mostly comprised of northern Ca and western Wa) I believe have just been base of ball. This might not be strictly true - but amongst the players I generally played anyway.
Steve and Bob have both mentioned base of ball to be more standard practices and I trust their experience and understanding of common practices as far more widely informed than my own.
Given this understanding, I am of the opinion the OP.org rules would be best served in not diverging from that practice unless there were a compelling reason.

As I say; either one would seem just fine. Just pick one and this can be put to rest.
It seems that is what Steve is trying to work toward with this poll.
I have merely been offering my personal opinion to add to this discussion.

If I were playing somewhere which objected to my placing base of ball; I would simply move the CB back.
I'm not the type of player who games and sharks my opponents (perhaps as I've never been a big gambler) - but if someone called me out after I played base of ball, they would have to continue with the understanding that I would adhere thereafter but not be penalized for the initial 'procedure'. Any other solution would be loss of faith and play would likely not continue.

 

[NH Steve]

I think it is interest how a defunct rule, Whole Ball, that we all grew up playing by, is making a full circle come back. Remember in 8 ball with the cue ball behind the line and you would shoot into the side rail just below the line and reverse back into the kitchen to make a hit on your ball. Good Memories. In those days that line was god awful important, for every game was played from the kitchen!
Whitey
real games spot balls and play from the kitchen

I also remember when (in 8 ball) your opponent might scratch on purpose, because all your balls were in the kitchen, and you had to kick at something. Glad to have that gone. Some rule changes are definite improvements

 

[Dennis "Whitey" Young]

Thanks Steve, exactly! You had to make the decision to kick long rail or just below the string and reverse back in. And man the opponent was down there watching that move!

The game of 8-ball transformation is truly a phenomenon. Remember Straight 8, wow every ball had to pocketed clean, any rubbing the rail going into the pocket, or grazing another ball going into a pocket was not a legal shot! It took over Cal.
Whitey

 

[darmoose]

Thanks Steve, exactly! You had to make the decision to kick long rail or just below the string and reverse back in. And man the opponent was down there watching that move!

The game of 8-ball transformation is truly a phenomenon. Remember Straight 8, wow every ball had to pocketed clean, any rubbing the rail going into the pocket, or grazing another ball going into a pocket was not a legal shot! It took over Cal.
Whitey

I think the biggest, and it turns out most devastating, rule change ever in pool was when nine ball was changed from push out to express to accommodate TV broadcasting, ruined that game. Nineball was more interesting and played more like OP with the push out rule.

 

[beatle]

you also notice that nine ball isnt played very much anymore in pool rooms for money. its no fun for a bad player to keep getting hooked behind a ball and then giving up ball in hand.
that rule has helped the spread of one pocket as all players get to shoot often in the game.
bad players when out of position or hooked which was often could roll out and get another shot or leave a tough shot. now they just lose the game.

 

[darmoose]

you also notice that nine ball isnt played very much anymore in pool rooms for money. its no fun for a bad player to keep getting hooked behind a ball and then giving up ball in hand.
that rule has helped the spread of one pocket as all players get to shoot often in the game.
bad players when out of position or hooked which was often could roll out and get another shot or leave a tough shot. now they just lose the game.

Interesting comment. I would agree that this is true and that OP benefited from this change. Being able to push out and providing an option to pass the shot made nine ball much more a game of skill and "strategery". This alone allowed players to use cerebral skills to compete when their shooting skills were somewhat lacking.

This is exactly the shortcoming that I think exists in OP today, and it has contributed to the current state of OP where offensive ball running has dominated. I personally do not enjoy watching players shooting at everything with little or no regard for missing. Mostly gone are the days when "moving" could make a difference when facing a sharpshooting gunslinger. lol

In many other games like golf and baseball as players skill levels change adjustments are made to help bring the game back to its original state.

While it would not completely solve the problem, introducing a rule providing the option to say "shoot again" in OP would accomplish a few worthwhile objectives and suffer no downside.

ON ALL FOULS, THE INCOMING PLAYER CAN RETURN THE SHOT TO THE FOULING PLAYER.

Forgive me if I have sinned.......... ......JMHO

 

[Island Drive]

I've played 14.1 before, where the obj. ball was on the line (ok to shoot) and I had BIH in the kitchen.
Because of this situation, I was able too cut that ball.....in the one of the two head table pockets (that were in the kitchen), cue ball off the long rail just before the side pocket with outside spin, whitey too the rack.

 

[vapros]

Shoot again, Darmoose??!! Absolutely not. How could you suggest gutting the intentional scratch? That would be the end of one-pocket as we know it. Down on your knees and say some Hail Marys and stuff.

 

[beatle]

basically if you write the rules to cater to the very top players in the game you punish the regular joe's that play.

they play a different game than we do. same as with most other sports. and all those rules made for the tv players will follow the rest of us down the line.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I think the biggest, and it turns out most devastating, rule change ever in pool was when nine ball was changed from push out to express to accommodate TV broadcasting, ruined that game. Nineball was more interesting and played more like OP with the push out rule.

I don't think it was for broadcast. I think the Texas Express organization just didn't want matches to take so long in their tournaments.

 

[darmoose]

Shoot again, Darmoose??!! Absolutely not. How could you suggest gutting the intentional scratch? That would be the end of one-pocket as we know it. Down on your knees and say some Hail Marys and stuff.

I am....I am....

 

[darmoose]

I don't think it was for broadcast. I think the Texas Express organization just didn't want matches to take so long in their tournaments.

I don't really know. I always heard ESPN had something to do with it.Push out was too slow for TV.

 

[NH Steve]

I don't think it was for broadcast. I think the Texas Express organization just didn't want matches to take so long in their tournaments.

What many people do not realize is that the Jansco Brothers introduced "Ball in hand anywhere on the table" for a foul in their 9-ball division -- in 1967!!! Many, many years before either ESPN or Texas Express came along

 

[cincy_kid]

I think it is interest how a defunct rule, Whole Ball, that we all grew up playing by, is making a full circle come back. Remember in 8 ball with the cue ball behind the line and you would shoot into the side rail just below the line and reverse back into the kitchen to make a hit on your ball. Good Memories. In those days that line was god awful important, for every game was played from the kitchen!
Whitey
real games spot balls and play from the kitchen

Lol that used to be funny stuff the good ole days

 

[vapros]

All on the same day we have Darmoose promoting a rule to speed up the game, and in another thread Billy Jackets is complaining about the wild men who shoot at everything! So, Steve - whatcha gonna do? Better you than me.

 

[Tennessee Joe6]

What's funny about the base of the ball. It's dark underneath a ball, and too tell if it's just not touching the cloth, yah need a flashlight.

By standing to the side of the table and looking down on the ball I find it is much more accurate than trying to hold a cue stick over the diamonds....but that is just me.

 

[catkins]

just use a laser in this day and age placed on the diamond 1 milometer off the cloth should go all the way across or hit the ball

 

[beatle]

jh