Here's an interesting question

darmoose

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There are players who consider themselves more aggressive, more offensive than the average. There are players that consider themselves more defensive, less aggressive than the average. We even have names for styles like "Chicago" style (I guess to most that means a squeezer, a grinder, etc.) I'm not sure what to call the opposite style, perhaps a "Momentum" or "Aggressive Shooting" style. Each has his own reasons and rational.

So, when these guys meet on the 9' green felt battlefield in a match that is considered to be even as to outcome, which has the greater influence on the others game, and how so?
 

El Chapo

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My perception of this is squeezers like to think they'll never give up a shot to a shooter, and they will just one pocket their way to victory and shoot hangers they've moved in front of their hole all day. That never happens though (I should say I'm speaking more about good players).

I feel like shooters come to the table more offensive minded in general. Trying to scrape a ball off something while ducking the cb, or just flat out trying to pocket a ball. They maintain their accuracy better in general, and I feel that helps them control the cb better, and thus play better defense. They are getting more offensive opportunities to run balls because they're always trying to pocket a ball somehow. And, they make the squeezer feel like I can't put this guy anywhere. I honestly don't even see it as a big mystery because all the best one pocket player seem to play very very offensive, so the question answers itself as far as I'm concerned. Why isn't there an svb playing Chicago style and winning every tournament? Seriously! It's because it is not effective. Shooters sit there and watch guys labor over easy shots and bunt the cb all day and the style in general just lacks intimidation. Thinking too much really can translate to indecision, and a lack of confidence, and I feel it does in many cases. Overthinking affects execution too. Then you have the added caveat a guy has been squeezing for he last 35 minutes, a shooter loses the white and leaves a straight in ball, and the squeezer gets outta line on his first shot because he doesn't know what to do with himself, we wants to keep squeezing. I really see it like that. It's like the games become about bunting for squeezers at times, and not about scoring points. Maybe I put that too strongly ill admit but I think in general shooters are much better prepared and are in that good, offensive headspace when they do finally get a good shot.
 
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poolisboring

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i prefer a offensive, aggressive style--i call it hyper aggressive---down side is that ill sell out sometimes looking for a big kill shot.......need more patience......
 

lll

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There are players who consider themselves more aggressive, more offensive than the average. There are players that consider themselves more defensive, less aggressive than the average. We even have names for styles like "Chicago" style (I guess to most that means a squeezer, a grinder, etc.) I'm not sure what to call the opposite style, perhaps a "Momentum" or "Aggressive Shooting" style. Each has his own reasons and rational.

So, when these guys meet on the 9' green felt battlefield in a match that is considered to be even as to outcome, which has the greater influence on the others game, and how so?
darmoose
i dont have the experience on the battlefield of the green felt like many here
but here is my intutive answer to your question
i think the defensive player influences the aggressive player more and here is why
the defensive player is going pass on shots to play defense regardless of how well the shooter is shooting
so i dont think the shooter influences the defensive player that much
(unless he gets intimidated by the firepower)
HOWEVER
if the defensive player is really good at not letting the shooter get a rhythm
then the shooter when it comes time for the big shot after multiple safeties played from frozen to the rail or a ball
he may not shoot as straight
so in that regard
i think the defensive player influences the shooter more
however who do i think will win to use your words
" in a match that is considered to be even as to outcome "
i will favor the shooter because whomever gets 8 in their hole first wins...:)
p,s, this assumes " in a match that is considered to be even as to outcome"
the shooter is not shooting flyers but understands the game but is more willing to pull the trigger on his 70-80 % make shot that is the defensive players 50-60% shot so the defensive player doesnt go for it
so the offensive player has more opportunities to make 8 balls
but whomever is better at what they do will win
to me the player that can BLEND the 2 styles is tough to beat
 

darmoose

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darmoose
i dont have the experience on the battlefield of the green felt like many here
but here is my intutive answer to your question
i think the defensive player influences the aggressive player more and here is why
the defensive player is going pass on shots to play defense regardless of how well the shooter is shooting
so i dont think the shooter influences the defensive player that much
(unless he gets intimidated by the firepower)
HOWEVER
if the defensive player is really good at not letting the shooter get a rhythm
then the shooter when it comes time for the big shot after multiple safeties played from frozen to the rail or a ball
he may not shoot as straight
so in that regard
i think the defensive player influences the shooter more
however who do i think will win to use your words
" in a match that is considered to be even as to outcome "
i will favor the shooter because whomever gets 8 in their hole first wins...:)
p,s, this assumes " in a match that is considered to be even as to outcome"
the shooter is not shooting flyers but understands the game but is more willing to pull the trigger on his 70-80 % make shot that is the defensive players 50-60% shot so the defensive player doesnt go for it
so the offensive player has more opportunities to make 8 balls
but whomever is better at what they do will win
to me the player that can BLEND the 2 styles is tough to beat

Larry

Thanks for the response. 180 views in this post and 80 or so in your repost and we got 3 responses (2 from same guy). I guess cats got their tongue.

Anyway, you are exactly right IMO, the "mover" has the ability to greatly influence an opponent who relies mostly on his shooting abilities, while the aggressive shooter has very little ability to influence the movers game.

So, as you say, how well each can apply their skill set will be determanative. Fact is, the mover has a much easier task in forcing his opponent to play his game. We all know that in many sports forcing your opponent to play your game can be significant.

There's been a lot of talk about confidence, momentum, aggression, all very important, but, what works for you can be used against you. Look at the Ghosts manifesto for details.

I don't know who wins any given matchup anymore than anyone else does. But I know a mover can draw a lot of confidence in a match like this knowing they are going to play his game.

Whether in war or one pocket, overreaching can be disasterous.

JMHO:)
 

Island Drive

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The one that becomes aware of another's weakness's and strengths and utilizes that for the win. Probably no different than what a great military mind on the battlefield would do. Sometimes when your flush, you'll go into battle knowing you don't have the best of it, but that will also teach you where work is still needed. There's no simple/click of the mouse answer to get thru life., there's no one thing that will make you better than the next, hard work goes a long way in life. I feel like I'm a parent talking to my kid right now....Stick your hand in the fire if ya wanna get the full monty of life. The land of hard knocks is your true teacher.:sorry
 

stedyfred

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I think that one of the most important tenets in life is to know yourself. I feel that a good one pocket player should be able to play a number of different styles when playing the game but also know that their best game is most likely to come out when they play in a particular manner. For me personally my best game is when I am aggressive, however, it can be a function of how much pool in general, and one pocket in particular, that I am playing. I like to squeeze for sure but I am aware of the above; know yourself.
 

youngstown

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Here's an interesting question

What % of the time does considering the opponent makes a difference, you think? Maybe 10%. It's all execution in my mind. Executing the right shot(s), as often there are more than one!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Jeff sparks

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Houston, Texas
There are players who consider themselves more aggressive, more offensive than the average. There are players that consider themselves more defensive, less aggressive than the average. We even have names for styles like "Chicago" style (I guess to most that means a squeezer, a grinder, etc.) I'm not sure what to call the opposite style, perhaps a "Momentum" or "Aggressive Shooting" style. Each has his own reasons and rational.

So, when these guys meet on the 9' green felt battlefield in a match that is considered to be even as to outcome, which has the greater influence on the others game, and how so?[/QUOTE


Lock down tight moving/trapping is intimidating, but then so is 8 and out...

Intimidation in any form leads to errors, ( forced and unforced ) and whoever makes the most errors always loses in the end...

What looks good on paper ain't necessarily how it plays out on the table...

I watched a match the other day where a guy who plays a very strong defensive game was getting 11/6 from a player who moves about the same... Both play solid defense, very close on paper... You would think the player getting the spot would have a decent game... Not so... His opponent runs balls better and banks much better... This intimidates the player getting the big spot into making more errors, forced and unforced, thus losing the match 6/1..

Can this be done to the more aggressive player... (Moi) You damn tootin...
Jerry Matchin and Tom Wirth are two players who I am familiar with, who's styles intimidate me... They are trappers, ( good shooters also ) who are constantly moving their soldiers into favorable positions, while hiding the CB...

It's not a cinch they would beat me in a short race, but they are definitely the favorites because they force me into making errors.. I don't know the game well enough to guard against these traps, so I'm automatically intimidated...

Learning a more balanced game would stop some of this intimidation, but it just takes time and a good mind... Pretty sure I don't have either...:)
 

Billy Jackets

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The one that becomes aware of another's weakness's and strengths and utilizes that for the win. Probably no different than what a great military mind on the battlefield would do. Sometimes when your flush, you'll go into battle knowing you don't have the best of it, but that will also teach you where work is still needed. There's no simple/click of the mouse answer to get thru life., there's no one thing that will make you better than the next, hard work goes a long way in life. I feel like I'm a parent talking to my kid right now....Stick your hand in the fire if ya wanna get the full monty of life. The land of hard knocks is your true teacher.:sorry

I like this answer.
It can be very disheartening, when you are a shooter, and you are stuck behind a ball going the wrong way 95% of the time.
It can also be mind blowing, when every time you think you played a safe , your opponent sends a ball or 3 toward his hole.
 

1andDone

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Ocean Springs, MS
Here's my take:
I recently played someone who is a much better shot maker than I. That fact influenced me to take fewer chances and play a tighter game. In turn, that influenced him to take MORE chances on the rare occasions when he had a shot at a flyer to his hole. He made a few, but more often than not, he missed or hung up the ball in his pocket. Either way, he 'sold out' leaving me able to get either out or to at least make several balls then roll in the hanger in his hole. I ended up beating him badly.
On the flip side, I played someone who is more of a mover than a potter. That influenced me to take more chances. He, then, was influenced to take more chances since he found himself behind whenever he got back to the table. Again, I beat him badly as well.

In both cases, 'influence' was going both ways. The question is: who can make the necessary adjustment to work the 'influence' in their favor? Those two times I was able to do so, but it does not have to work out that way every time.
 

poolisboring

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toledo
i feel that trapping your opponent is somewhat overrated as most any trap can be dealt with if u look at it enough.....to me, it comes down to execution of your shots/plans.....i remember when i first moved to toledo,i thought it was such a big deal when someone froze me to a ball with balls by their pocket--then i got here, and it was a steady dose of that, and then i would go back to the people from my old poolroom that used to beat me, and now i was killing them....and getting out of traps was no longer the big deal that i had made them out to be.....
 
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