Golf (on a pool/snooker table)

[NH Steve]

Okay, I added a couple of more rules that you all brought up here:

1. Two or more players
2. Each player gets their own object ball
3. Opening shot is from "inside the D" with the cue ball, object ball on the designated "spot" -- the designated spot might vary depending on the difficulty level of the table itself, and the advanced level of players?? (on Lenny's stream, they used the center of the foot rail, but it looked like not frozen to the rail, but rather about a half a ball off the cushion).
4. The basic object of the game is to pocket your own object ball in each of the six pockets, in order, before your opponent does
5. The order of pockets is first the back corner to your right, as you stand at the head of the table facing your opening shot, and then clockwise around the table until you finish at the "six pocket", which would be the right side pocket as you face your opening shot
6. On the opening shot, each player in turn takes ball in hand from within the "D" for their first shot. If any player makes their ball in the "one pocket" on their opening shot, then their ball is re-spotted and they continue to shoot at the next pocket, until they miss. Then the next player takes their opening shot with ball-in-hand within the "D"
7. Once all players have shot their opening shot, then the cue ball is played where it lies, unless .
8. Every time your ball is pocketed, it is re-spotted on the agreed upon "spot"
9. Golf is a wagering game, with the main stakes based on who makes all six pockets first, and secondary stakes per each scratch (called a "hickey")
10. For a legal safety in Golf, you need to meet the standard pocket billiards requirements for ball and rail contact as in other games, or you can legally play safe by striking a rail or rails first, and then simply contacting your object ball with the cue ball, without the requirement of hitting a rail afterward. Either play is a legal safety in Golf.
11. You are penalized a "hickey" any time you pocket scratch; anytime you pocket your opponent's ball; anytime you strike your opponent's ball before your own; anytime your cue ball flies off the table; anytime you fail to play a legal safety; anytime you pocket your own ball in any of the wrong pockets (any pocket other than the pocket you are "on"); if you shoot out of turn
12. If you pocket another player's ball in the pocket that the other player is "on", that pocket counts for the other player.
13. If the shooter pockets their own ball in their own pocket, but on the same stroke pockets an opponent's ball, then the shooter's pocket does not count, and they are penalized a scratch. If the ball went in the proper pocket for the opponent, then it would count for the opponent.
14. When the shooter pockets any object ball or balls illegally, whether his own ball or an opponent's ball, all such balls are held for spotting until each shooter takes their turn at the table -- then that shooter's object ball only is spotted.

Also, here are some more rules from the LeBar book -- do these look right?

1. If you are completely snookered on your own object ball, you can elect to "push out". If you do so, you are penalized a scratch, however. You are not allowed to push out in such a way that you completely snooker the next player up.
2. If you are not pushing out, and you fail to contact anything with the cue ball, you are penalized a scratch, and the next player in turn can either choose to shoot from where the cue ball lies, or can make you put the cue ball back as near as possible to where it was, and you have to shoot again from there.
3. If the shooter strikes an opponent's ball first, instead of contacting their own ball first, then the shooter has to immediately pay double the scratch stakes to the player whose ball was illegally struck first. Also, the opponent's ball that was illegally struck is either left as it lies or replaced to its original position at the discretion of the opponent whose ball it is.

 

[gulfportdoc]

That's a good set of basic rules. I forget the circumstance in which after guy fouls, the player who follows him gets to lift up any intervening OBs, so that he gets a clear shot at his ball.

Doc

 

[SJDinPHX]

Okay, I added a couple of more rules that you all brought up here:

1. Two or more players
2. Each player gets their own object ball
3. Opening shot is from "inside the D" with the cue ball, object ball on the designated "spot" -- the designated spot might vary depending on the difficulty level of the table itself, and the advanced level of players?? (on Lenny's stream, they used the center of the foot rail, but it looked like not frozen to the rail, but rather about a half a ball off the cushion).
4. The basic object of the game is to pocket your own object ball in each of the six pockets, in order, before your opponent does
5. The order of pockets is first the back corner to your right, as you stand at the head of the table facing your opening shot, and then clockwise around the table until you finish at the "six pocket", which would be the right side pocket as you face your opening shot
6. On the opening shot, each player in turn takes ball in hand from within the "D" for their first shot. If any player makes their ball in the "one pocket" on their opening shot, then their ball is re-spotted and they continue to shoot at the next pocket, until they miss. Then the next player takes their opening shot with ball-in-hand within the "D"
7. Once all players have shot their opening shot, then the cue ball is played where it lies, unless .
8. Every time your ball is pocketed, it is re-spotted on the agreed upon "spot"
9. Golf is a wagering game, with the main stakes based on who makes all six pockets first, and secondary stakes per each scratch (called a "hickey")
10. For a legal safety in Golf, you need to meet the standard pocket billiards requirements for ball and rail contact as in other games, or you can legally play safe by striking a rail or rails first, and then simply contacting your object ball with the cue ball, without the requirement of hitting a rail afterward. Either play is a legal safety in Golf.
11. You are penalized a "hickey" any time you pocket scratch; anytime you pocket your opponent's ball; anytime you strike your opponent's ball before your own; anytime your cue ball flies off the table; anytime you fail to play a legal safety; anytime you pocket your own ball in any of the wrong pockets (any pocket other than the pocket you are "on"); if you shoot out of turn
12. If you pocket another player's ball in the pocket that the other player is "on", that pocket counts for the other player.
13. If the shooter pockets their own ball in their own pocket, but on the same stroke pockets an opponent's ball, then the shooter's pocket does not count, and they are penalized a scratch. If the ball went in the proper pocket for the opponent, then it would count for the opponent.
14. When the shooter pockets any object ball or balls illegally, whether his own ball or an opponent's ball, all such balls are held for spotting until each shooter takes their turn at the table -- then that shooter's object ball only is spotted.

Also, here are some more rules from the LeBar book -- do these look right?

1. If you are completely snookered on your own object ball, you can elect to "push out". If you do so, you are penalized a scratch, however. You are not allowed to push out in such a way that you completely snooker the next player up.
   
2. If you are not pushing out, and you fail to contact anything with the cue ball, you are penalized a scratch, and the next player in turn can either choose to shoot from where the cue ball lies, or can make you put the cue ball back as near as possible to where it was, and you have to shoot again from there.
   If the shooter strikes an opponent's ball first, instead of contacting their own ball first, then the shooter has to immediately pay the price of the game to the player whose ball was illegally struck first. Also, the opponent's ball that was illegally struck is either left as it lies or replaced to its original position at the discretion of the opponent whose ball it is.

Whoever wrote those rules, had a very good understanding of the game of golf...Thats the way its played most knowledgable places. (except for California, where you must hit your ball, even if you are completely hooked...which is way to severe a penalty (IMO) especially in a ring game.

Those are very good ring game rules..The only addition we made to accomodate "head up" or partner play...Was prior to a kick (or a real thin cut) you asked your opponent to mark his cue ball...Then, if he missed the ball, and played an "accidental" safety on you, you could make him shoot again (from the same spot) until he hit the ball, or left you a shot you could live with...your option. This proved to be NOT a very workable rule for a ring game. Just like the "shoot again" rule, doesn't work in ring 9 ball.

Replacing object balls, (on a bad hit) was always iffy, and often led to arguments. Imposing a penalty of the price of the game, payable immediately, usually avoided such antics. If you were going to the out hole (head up only) and your opponent made a bad hit...it was "game over"...you won.

Playing "Go back a hole", was never a good rule...Especially head up. If you got way out of position on one of the side holes, assuming you are playing the 6 ball spot, (which I've always thought was best on a 6 X 12) you are often better off going back to a corner (2 or 5 hole) hole for another attempt at shape.

Golf is a great game when its played right...Since the recent darth of snooker tables (of any size)...some new rules for playing on a pool table, have had to be implemented...They have yet to get them sophisticated, and fine tuned at Kolby's.

 

[bud_44]

Golf (on a pool/snooker table)

They have a great Golf game at a pool hall called "Earl's Place" in Flint, Michigan. Pool hall is on the corner of Maple Road and VanSlyke. Fantastic Brunswick Snooker table. Small place. No smoking. Great bunch of guys playing golf. I usually lose between $10.00 and $15.00. Great fun.

 

[markgriffin]

golf

golf

At the Anchorage Billiard Palace, we had 2 antique KLING 6 x 12 snooker tables. Pockets were about 3-1/8" - good for gold but tough for snooker.

We played ALL the time. The cost of a hickey (foul) was usually 10%:
$10 & $1 or $20 & $2.

3 hickeys and you go back a hole. Cost of the game on ANY ball that moved on a bad hit. DOSO (Double on sell out). That is a MUST rule to keep the agressive guys inline!

Your ball came off the table on any hickey and put back when your turn came up. We always used the 6 ball spot - and if occupied went to the 7. I have seen the 7 ball spot used when going for the side holes (Pocket #3 & #6).

We had games going 14-16 hours a day for years! Had a $10,000/$1000 head-up game that went off and on for 3 days back around 2002. WOW!!!!!

Played properly, golf is the best game - up there with one pocket. But you have to have a good flat table and players who play properly. We had many 5-6 handed games that would actually last 3-5 hours.

Mark Griffin

 

[Frank Almanza]

At the Anchorage Billiard Palace, we had 2 antique KLING 6 x 12 snooker tables. Pockets were about 3-1/8" - good for gold but tough for snooker.

We played ALL the time. The cost of a hickey (foul) was usually 10%:
$10 & $1 or $20 & $2.

3 hickeys and you go back a hole. Cost of the game on ANY ball that moved on a bad hit. DOSO (Double on sell out). That is a MUST rule to keep the agressive guys inline!

Your ball came off the table on any hickey and put back when your turn came up. We always used the 6 ball spot - and if occupied went to the 7. I have seen the 7 ball spot used when going for the side holes (Pocket #3 & #6).

We had games going 14-16 hours a day for years! Had a $10,000/$1000 head-up game that went off and on for 3 days back around 2002. WOW!!!!!

Played properly, golf is the best game - up there with one pocket. But you have to have a good flat table and players who play properly. We had many 5-6 handed games that would actually last 3-5 hours.

Mark Griffin

I had the pleasure to play on those tables when I went through there. Steady game for $20 and $2, six handed. The room was beautiful with older 4 1/2 x 9 tables and they all had simonis cloth with the red circle ball. All the tables that I played on were perfect. I remember you showing me the second floor that was more like a night club and had a couple of Centennial pool tables. One of the best rooms in the country.

 

[gulfportdoc]

I played a lot of golf on the snooker table when I lived in L.A. during the 1960's. But it was on a 5 X 10. I'm sure that the game is completely different on a 6 X 12.

There's a good 5 X 10 at Skeeter's in Gulfport, but I almost hate to get a golf game started. I'd have to take a little time away from the game to fit in a few hour's work at my job...

Doc

 

[Frank Almanza]

I just remembered that there is another form of golf on the snooker table called three shot golf. Jrhendy will remember us playing this game at a room in Alhambra, ca. I believe it was called Geno's.

If I remember correctly there could be unlimited players.
Only the shooters ball was on the table.

On your turn, you shoot from where the cue ball lays and your ball starts on the spot. You have three shots to get your ball into your pocket.

At the end of your turn, weather you pocket your ball or not, your ball comes off the table and the next player starts from where you leave the cue ball. You couldn't advance to the next hole until you complete the hole you're on. You have three shots to get it in the hole or start over on the same hole next turn.

The idea is to go around the table with as little strokes as you can.
Once you make a pocket you give up your turn and the next player is up.

A good score would be in the teens, like 17 or 18.
The game is played for a designated amount per stroke.

Once a player went around and finished he was out of the game.

The payout was the difference between each players scores.

If you were the first to finish say with an 18 and the next to finish had a 24 then the difference was six strokes.
As players finished the course they were out and once you're out you had to wait until all finished.

The payouts were then established. You would get paid the difference in strokes from all that finished behind you.
The second guy collected from all behind him and the third collected from all behind him and so on. Pity the last guy out. He paid everyone.

This is not as easy as it sounds on a tight pocket table.

Maybe John can add some to this.

 

[jrhendy]

I just remembered that there is another form of golf on the snooker table called three shot golf. Jrhendy will remember us playing this game at a room in Alhambra, ca. I believe it was called Geno's.

If I remember correctly there could be unlimited players.
Only the shooters ball was on the table.

On your turn, you shoot from where the cue ball lays and your ball starts on the spot. You have three shots to get your ball into your pocket.

At the end of your turn, weather you pocket your ball or not, your ball comes off the table and the next player starts from where you leave the cue ball. You couldn't advance to the next hole until you complete the hole you're on. You have three shots to get it in the hole or start over on the same hole next turn.

The idea is to go around the table with as little strokes as you can.
Once you make a pocket you give up your turn and the next player is up.

A good score would be in the teens, like 17 or 18.
The game is played for a designated amount per stroke.

Once a player went around and finished he was out of the game.

The payout was the difference between each players scores.

If you were the first to finish say with an 18 and the next to finish had a 24 then the difference was six strokes.
As players finished the course they were out and once you're out you had to wait until all finished.

The payouts were then established. You would get paid the difference in strokes from all that finished behind you.
The second guy collected from all behind him and the third collected from all behind him and so on. Pity the last guy out. He paid everyone.

This is not as easy as it sounds on a tight pocket table.

Maybe John can add some to this.

It is a brutal game Frank when you are going off and the strokes keep adding up.

They called it stymy (sp) in a lot of places and like regular golf, there are many different rules. I have played in on a 6 x 12 where you got five strokes.

They played it at Red Carpet in Santa Clara and they had a big board to keep score for multiple players.

I played a guy one handed in the sixties in a room in Pomona that was downstairs off the old outside mall on Central. We played $1.00 a stroke and I shot first and shot a seven. Although I played pretty well one handed, it was mostly luck as I made a two railer and went out with a three railer. In this game you shot until you went around the table, then the other guy shot.

The guy was so pissed he yanked the ball out of the side pocket and it shot up and broke the light. Took the house man about a half hour to clean the table and replace the light. He didn't calm down and would probably have shot a 100 and not paid. I told him I had to go back to work and settled for $20/$30 and probably avoided getting stiffed and a fight.

I figured that was better than getting nothing and my ass kicked.

 

[SJDinPHX]

It is a brutal game Frank when you are going off and the strokes keep adding up.

They called it stymy (sp) in a lot of places and like regular golf, there are many different rules. I have played in on a 6 x 12 where you got five strokes.

They played it at Red Carpet in Santa Clara and they had a big board to keep score for multiple players.

I played a guy one handed in the sixties in a room in Pomona that was downstairs off the old outside mall on Central. We played $1.00 a stroke and I shot first and shot a seven. Although I played pretty well one handed, it was mostly luck as I made a two railer and went out with a three railer. In this game you shot until you went around the table, then the other guy shot.

The guy was so pissed he yanked the ball out of the side pocket and it shot up and broke the light. Took the house man about a half hour to clean the table and replace the light. He didn't calm down and would probably have shot a 100 and not paid. I told him I had to go back to work and settled for $20/$30 and probably avoided getting stiffed and a fight.

I figured that was better than getting nothing and my ass kicked.

Frank and John,

I introduced "Stymie" to both Salt Lake City and Phx, (from Canada) in the 50's....Within 6 mos.,they banned it out of the Peter Pan Billiards in SLC. Wives threatened to have the place closed down, as guys who never gambled on anything, were losing thier paycheck's, playing .25 and .50 cent stymie....

The game survived in Phx, until we lost all our snooker tables. However, in Phx., they soon put a 3 stymie limit on it, then you advanced to the next hole...except on the out hole...which took a lot of the fun (and much of the big $$$$$) out of it....There are more funny stories (per game) in Stymie, than all other games put together...Your good story John, was played out many times...everywhere it was played...Having to hit a rail, after contact...even when you made your pocket, was a hugh factor...That game could bring out the "dog" in anybody...(even the Goast)..

PS..In SLC,....I once saw a 6'-5"-340 lb. "Hothead", actually tip over a 5 x 10 snooker table, and storm out !...nobody said a word...including the house man...

 

[Skin]

Frank and John,

I introduced "Stymie" to both Salt Lake City and Phx, (from Canada) in the 50's....Within 6 mos.,they banned it out of the Peter Pan Billiards in SLC. Wives threatened to have the place closed down, as guys who never gambled on anything, were losing thier paycheck's, playing .25 and .50 cent stymie....

The game survived in Phx, until we lost all our snooker tables. However, in Phx., they soon put a 3 stymie limit on it, then you advanced to the next hole...except on the out hole...which took a lot of the fun (and much of the big $$$$$) out of it....There are more funny stories (per game) in Stymie, than all other games put together...Your good story John, was played out many times...everywhere it was played...Having to hit a rail, after contact...even when you made your pocket, was a hugh factor...That game could bring out the "dog" in anybody...(even the Goast)..

PS..In SLC,....I once saw a 6'-5"-340 lb. "Hothead", actually tip over a 5 x 10 snooker table, and storm out !...nobody said a word...including the house man...

Dick, what is the shot from the D to the side pockets on the snooker table when the ob is on the 6 ball spot? 3 railer (or 2 railer) or just lag it up off the foot rail?

Skin

 

[SJDinPHX]

Dick, what is the shot from the D to the side pockets on the snooker table when the ob is on the 6 ball spot? 3 railer (or 2 railer) or just lag it up off the foot rail?

Skin

Depends on whether you're talking golf or stymie...a lag is usually best in golf...In stymie, you might try to set yourself up for a 2, by 3 railing it...either a long or short 3 railer, with good speed, will often work.

 

[Skin]

Depends on whether you're talking golf or stymie...a lag is usually best in golf...In stymie, you might try to set yourself up for a 2, by 3 railing it...either a long or short 3 railer, with good speed, will often work.

Thanks. I've never played stymie. Sounds like fun. Maybe I can talk some guys into a game since we have a 5x10 snooker table in town that gets used for snooker and golf. If I lose big, I'm blaming you guys!

Skin did not observe the SJD 30 minute edit rule before posting

 

[markgriffin]

Peter Pan Billiards in SLC

Peter Pan Billiards in SLC

SJDinPhx said "I introduced "Stymie" to both Salt Lake City and Phx, (from Canada) in the 50's....Within 6 mos.,they banned it out of the Peter Pan Billiards in SLC"

I went through SLC in mid 70's but don't think I ever go to get inside Peter Pan Billiards. I think it was near the capital (or some fancy downtown building).

Anyhow, The place opened up around 1928 and closed around 1984. When I opened up the Anchorage Billiard Palace in early 1988, I ended up with 5 Brunswick Medalists that had come from that room. Which means that was only the 2nd time they had been set up over a period of 60 years. Several of them are still at the 'new' Anchorage Billiard Palace.

The balance of the other tables mostly came from West Coast - including several from Cochran's and the Palace.

You almost never hear about the old 'really cool' rooms.

If the table Dick is talking about was a 5 x 10 Medalist snooker table - then that table was in my place for about 5-6 years. I sold/traded it for a 2nd 6 x 12 Kling so we could have 2 golf tables. The 5 x 10 snooker went back to California with Bob Bebb. It was sold to the actor Noah Wylie, who had it converted to a pool table. Incidentally, I also had another Medalist that was at the Gaslamp Billiard Palace for a couple of years. It was refinished and ended up at George Clooney's house - who was a pal of Wylie's.

Small world!

Mark Griffin

 

[SJDinPHX]

SJDinPhx said "I introduced "Stymie" to both Salt Lake City and Phx, (from Canada) in the 50's....Within 6 mos.,they banned it out of the Peter Pan Billiards in SLC"

I went through SLC in mid 70's but don't think I ever go to get inside Peter Pan Billiards. I think it was near the capital (or some fancy downtown building).

Anyhow, The place opened up around 1928 and closed around 1984. When I opened up the Anchorage Billiard Palace in early 1988, I ended up with 5 Brunswick Medalists that had come from that room. Which means that was only the 2nd time they had been set up over a period of 60 years. Several of them are still at the 'new' Anchorage Billiard Palace.

The balance of the other tables mostly came from West Coast - including several from Cochran's and the Palace.

You almost never hear about the old 'really cool' rooms.

If the table Dick is talking about was a 5 x 10 Medalist snooker table - then that table was in my place for about 5-6 years. I sold/traded it for a 2nd 6 x 12 Kling so we could have 2 golf tables. The 5 x 10 snooker went back to California with Bob Bebb. It was sold to the actor Noah Wylie, who had it converted to a pool table. Incidentally, I also had another Medalist that was at the Gaslamp Billiard Palace for a couple of years. It was refinished and ended up at George Clooney's house - who was a pal of Wylie's.

Small world!

Mark Griffin

Thats really neat Mark... I don't know about the 5 X 10 snooker tables. I left SLC in about 1957, and the Peter Pan had a ton of old Brunswick pool tables, both 5 X 10, and 9 footers. However during my tenure there, I don't remember there being any 10' snooker tables...only 6 X 12's, but they could well have added some after I left.

That was really a great old room...It was on State street, just a few blocks from the Morman Tabernacle, near the Newhouse Hotel, downstairs under an office bldg.

One of these days I'll regale the guys with some stories about the ongoing 15-20 handed "Life pool" games they had in there...Good times for sure !!!.

Off to spend the evening with some good friends...Hope everybody has a great Christmas.

Dick

View attachment 2060

 

[1pocketpro]

Stymie

Stymie

SJD,

A buddy of mine introduced me to this game about 10 years ago. I think he first played it about 40 years ago somewhere in southern California. Could you tell me a little about the way you played it? Rules, kind of tables, # of players, etc.

Any information would really be appreciated. Hard to find anyone that knows anything about the game.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[SJDinPHX]

SJD,

A buddy of mine introduced me to this game about 10 years ago. I think he first played it about 40 years ago somewhere in southern California. Could you tell me a little about the way you played it? Rules, kind of tables, # of players, etc.

Any information would really be appreciated. Hard to find anyone that knows anything about the game.

Thanks,
Mike

Mike,

I'll do the best I can..I think JR Hendy may have a little input too !...Stymie, like golf..has pretty much left the scene..But Stymie was a far more brutal game, than golf..especially for the unsuspecting novice..In fact, as I've said before..many pool rooms barred the game. (smart move, as it kept all the good customers broke)..It was so enticing to everybody, at first sight, because it looked so simple !..But, believe me, I have seen many fairly decent pool players, lose 100's of dollars, in their first few ring (6 handed or more) games, at only .25 or .50 cents a stroke, and $3 stymies..

It was usually played on a 6 X 12, with 2, to 8 player's..the more players, the more your potential $$$ loss, (or win) could be..In the early days, we used to play, you shot at your hole until you made it..(going around just like golf) That was REALLY brutal... In later years, it was modified to stop at six shots, then you took a "stymie" (usually about $3 to $5, in a .50 cent per stroke game).. and then your turn was over..But, when your turn came up again, you were still going for the same hole. ('til you made it) As in golf, the side holes were the toughest, and the guy in front of you, tried to leave you as tough as he could.

You had to pay EVERY player, who shot a lower stroke total then you...Example; If I shot a 15 or so (very common for a good player) and you, (if you are a B or C player)... shot a 45, with 3 stymies, you would owe me $15.00 in stroke difference. and $15.00 in stymies...PLUS, assuming you were high man, you would owe every player between you and me, the difference between your respective scores.

As if all that was not brutal enough, on every shot, including your final pocketing of YOUR ball in your designated hole...You had to contact a rail "AFTER" the object ball..The better players, used to play, $2 per stroke, and $10 per stymie ! Mike, Do not try this game at home!

PS..There is NOTHING more humiliating, (and expensive) than being the LAST one, trying to finish up getting out, in a Stymie game.. when everyone else is done, and giggling at you ! :frus:...It can be played on ANY size table, even a pool table...You will be amazed at what can go wrong !..

 

[1pocketpro]

Sounds pretty similar to my friend's version. He stops after 5 shots. The left side pocket is the 1 hole and play goes clockwise to the 6 hole.

Would be fun to see some of the better golf regulars where I shoot give Stymie a try. They play on the 6 X 12 snooker table (Classic Billiards in Portland, OR.)

Thanks again for the information.

 

[jrhendy]

Sounds pretty similar to my friend's version. He stops after 5 shots. The left side pocket is the 1 hole and play goes clockwise to the 6 hole.

Would be fun to see some of the better golf regulars where I shoot give Stymie a try. They play on the 6 X 12 snooker table (Classic Billiards in Portland, OR.)

Thanks again for the information.

I played some golf years ago at a Bowling Alley in Portland that had some action and played one pocket with a guy name Brad on another trip. I can't remember which pool room it was at, but I think it was in Salem.

 

[onepockethacker]

FREDDY you were in miami for a while. can you give us any insight??

At this time I will choose to enter into this discussion. Yes Larry 2 ball Golf was and is the toughest version of Golf played on a pool table. There is 1000 times more strategy in 2 ball golf compared to 1 ball Golf. Common sense will tell you that you have to play defense against 2 balls instead of 1 ball. Also the table at the Congress and the one now at Gold Crown billiards in Hollywood Florida are the toughest and tightest tables in the country..PERIOD!! The one in Bellflower has BUCKET pockets compared to these 2 tables and Im not joking!! We offered to let Parica play the 3 ball ghost on the table... HE DECLINED Bob Osborne, Carlos Hallon, Mike Carella etc. A 1 ball Golf player would HAVE ZERO CHANCE playing 2 ball golf with any of the players from Florida. The 1 ball golfers didnt and dont have the brains to figure out 2 ball golf. All the guys I mentioned played both versions of Golf 1 ball and 2 ball and they ALL agreed that 2 ball was a far superior version of Golf.