Ghost vs. Tony 3 wwyd

One Pocket Ghost

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The 12ball is the shot that is the easiest shot to pocket

Dr. Bill

I strongly disagree..:eek:...:heh...

I'm not saying it's the best choice here..but I do say that the 3ball, i.e. the 1-3 combination, is the easiest ball to pocket - and as always, I will put my money where my mouth is...

At the DCC, I will shoot the combination against anyone who plays/pockets balls at my speed, for $20 - $50 per shot - while they shoot the 12, 15, or 13 - their choice..:eek:...:heh

- The combinatin' Ghost

PS, And Rob, you're not barred - but since you shoot soooo straight - you'll just have to give me a very reasonable 3-1 on the $$$ to make it a fair bet...:)
 
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Jeff sparks

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I strongly disagree..:eek:...:heh...

I'm not saying it's the best choice here..but I do say that the 3ball, i.e. the 1-3 combination, is the easiest ball to pocket - and as always, I will put my money where my mouth is...

At the DCC, I will shoot the combination against anyone who plays/pockets balls at my speed, for $20 - $50 per shot - while they shoot the 12, 15, or 13 - their choice..:eek:...:heh

- The combinatin' Ghost

PS, And Rob, you're not barred - but since you shoot soooo straight - you'll just have to give me a very reasonable 3-1 on the $$$ to make it a fair bet...:)

No offense Ghost, but you're looking for something dead, like road kill!!
Nobody's going to make that bet because it's not a fair bet, you have the nuts!!!

Now if you want to use the actual game circumstance you posted and the purposes you intended, ( which was running balls because of the score ( 4/0 ) then you got it with me. Whoever runs the most balls shooting their respective shots in say 5 attempts gets the money. You shoot the combo 5 times then run as many balls as you can and I'll do the same with the 12 ball. You have a 10 ball lead, because you're never gonna miss the opener or the guaranteed shape one ball! So, how about it, sound good to you?
 

One Pocket Ghost

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No offense Ghost, but you're looking for something dead, like road kill!!
Nobody's going to make that bet because it's not a fair bet, you have the nuts!!!


But, but, Billy said the 12 is the easiest ball to make here - so how could I have the nuts - what about that?...:heh...are you saying that the Dr.'s judgment is that far off?...:eek: :eek:

PS, And earlier in the thread, you said the combination wasn't so easy...:rolleyes:
 

onepockethacker

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Jeff is the only player so far in this thread that actually gets it, yes he's the guy who woke me up to the shot, and clearly the right shot.

This debate actually started with three options, 12ball to the 8ball..12ball two cushions to the 10 and 15ball......and either of the two combinations, that's what was being discussed. I still stand by by comments and opinion on the shots that I like and why I like them, which I feel have sound reasoning. I agreed that playing the 12ball to the 8ball was a good option, only if you were to draw the ball. I also suggested that shooting the combo's under certain conditions would be also a viable option and explained why. I didn't like shooting the spot shot because it was a type of a shot that had too much defense attached to it, I didn't like that option for this situation. So, I actually liked the 12ball to the 8ball and the combination shots the best. Until I understood how Jeff was playing the 12ball to the 10 or 15ball, I actually dismissed that option because I never realized that the angle for the shot was there until I set it up and shot it.

Here's the skinny

Playing one pocket we are confronted with many many decisions, the most important decision to make is..when to shoot at your pocket. It's not a black and white sort of thing, it's a core feeling that we all have based off of trial and error process. That's actually what this debate is all about, and here's why I believe that Jeff has clearly the right shot.

The 12ball is the shot that is the easiest shot to pocket, so we would like to use it for our opening shot or we are compromising the situation, trailing by four balls. How do we shoot the 12ball is the question, my opinion is you shoot it the way you will pocket it with a higher percentage, that would be to hit it with a high ball and no english and allow the shot to play naturally. By hitting the shot with no english and concentrating soley on the hit an accurate hit will result in a better feel with the cue ball and a higher pocketing percentage. The 12ball to the 8ball is also a good option but a more difficult option with controlling the cue ball, plus you're playing for only one ball, the 8ball. The stroke needed for the shot has a demand for much more feel in the speed and degree of cue tip contact, these thing will diminish the accuracy of the shot some what, probably not enough to miss the ball but often enough to lose your cue ball some. Is that a big deal?? That's up to you, I think so especially when you have a shot that will offer more consistency with pocketing the ball. I would guess that for a player like myself pocketing the 12ball with a high ball no english will be around 80 plus percent, for a good player over 90%. Like I mentioned there comes a time when we must commit to a shot and play the shot that best fits the situation. For those who are using the reason that if you miss you don't have to give any thing up are confused. That's the reason for shooting a safer shot, but imo there are more and better reasons to shoot the 12ball to the 10ball and forget about missing.;)

Dr. Bill

We are just going to have to disagree about this one Billy.. no problem.. I still luv you:D
 

One Pocket Ghost

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Thats all part of pool and a good poolroom... without that you might as well go feed the pigeons. Its all in good fun

Yeah Keith...ya gotta realize that Rob doesn't really mean it when he says stuff like, he can out-move me - he's only joking - I don't take that seriously...:heh
 

wincardona

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Thats all part of pool and a good poolroom... without that you might as well go feed the pigeons. Its all in good fun

When we have these debates is a learning process for every one including the debaters. How can anyone who enjoys the game of one pocket not appreciate all the information that is passed on through the debates we have, I certainly do. When I hear something of value I learn, I picked up a couple of shots in this thread alone and i'm sure other people have done the same. As long as the Ghost and other contributors continue to post wwyd's i'll continue to either educate, or bore people with my opinions. Hopefully more people are interested than bored.

1833 views and still counting, that's pretty cool.

Dr. Bill
 
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Jeff sparks

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But, but, Billy said the 12 is the easiest ball to make here - so how could I have the nuts - what about that?...:heh...are you saying that the Dr.'s judgment is that far off?...:eek: :eek:

PS, And earlier in the thread, you said the combination wasn't so easy...:rolleyes:


You being an educated fellow and with above average street smarts in the pool room, already know this, but I'm going to point it out anyway.

Shooting the 1/3 combo will win the award for the easiest opening shot, no doubt about it, everyone with any pool knowledge would agree with that, ergo, it's a lock shooting shot vs. shot! So it would take a complete ***** to bet against it shot vs. shot!!

But here's the rub, your 1/3 combo opener will lead to less wins than the 12 ball opener, and it will not match the ball run count of the 12 ball opener, so lay that pipe down and quit with the grade school con, you ain't gettin action with that weak s... But then you already know that also!!

Do you ever lose?
 

One Pocket Ghost

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lay that pipe down and quit with the grade school con, you ain't gettin action with that weak s...

And weren't you giving me "the grade school con", asking me to bet you on who would run more balls - with me shooting the combo first, while you shoot the 12 first...:rolleyes:...:heh
 

onepockethacker

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When we have these debates is a learning process for every one including the debaters. How can anyone who enjoys the game of one pocket not appreciate all the information that is passed on through the debates we have, I certainly do. When I here something of value I learn, I picked up a couple of shots in this thread alone and i'm sure other people have done the same. As long as the Ghost and other contributors continue to post wwyd's i'll continue to either educate, or boor people with my opinions. Hopefully more people are interested than bored.

1833 views and still counting, that's pretty cool.

Dr. Bill

I have to admit you educated me in this thread..... before this thread I thought you understood the game... I WAS WRONG:eek::p:heh:D:D:lol:lol
 

LSJohn

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When we have these debates is a learning process for every one including the debaters. How can anyone who enjoys the game of one pocket not appreciate all the information that is passed on through the debates we have, I certainly do. When I here something of value I learn, I picked up a couple of shots in this thread alone and i'm sure other people have done the same. As long as the Ghost and other contributors continue to post wwyd's i'll continue to either educate, or boor people with my opinions. Hopefully more people are interested than bored.

1833 views and still counting, that's pretty cool.

Dr. Bill

Amen, brother.

My problem is, I learn all this cool stuff, then somebody asks me what I had for breakfast and I forget the whole 2 hours I spend on the WWYD.

I'm not a slow learner, I'm a fast forgeter. :D
 

One Pocket Ghost

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So then....Tony shot the 3-1 combination..talking to him afterwards, he said he figures that at his age now, he's about 70% to make the 12 or 15..but he knows he probably loses if he misses, and he enjoys having moving battles in One Pocket, so he chose to shoot the combo...

He made it, but he hit it a little too good..:)..he hit it pin-straight, resulting in him ending up straight in on the 1, without an angle for further position (and the 5 did bank past the 8, so all he needed was a tiny bit of angle so that he could have dropped down onto the foot rail, with a good chance to bank the 5 in, and maybe run out......so he shot in the 1, couldn't get down to where he could bank the 5, and instead cleared out my pocket, banking the 5 into the 8, knocking the 8 towards his pocket...here's how he ended up after making the combination ----->
 

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Jeff sparks

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So then....Tony shot the 3-1 combination..talking to him afterwards, he said he figures that at his age now, he's about 70% to make the 12 or 15..but he knows he probably loses if he misses, and he enjoys having moving battles in One Pocket, so he chose to shoot the combo...

He made it, but he hit it a little too good..:)..he hit it pin-straight, resulting in him ending up straight in on the 1, without an angle for further position (and the 5 did bank past the 8, so all he needed was a tiny bit of angle so that he could have dropped down onto the foot rail, with a good chance to bank the 5 in, and maybe run out......so he shot in the 1, couldn't get down to where he could bank the 5, and instead cleared out my pocket, banking the 5 into the 8, knocking the 8 towards his pocket...here's how he ended up after making the combination ----->

That's how it looks when you cinch the combo, if you shoot it with shape in mind ( from an angle) then that theory of it being the easiest opening shot diminishes somewhat huh Ghost??? No doubt if some foolhardy soul had taken you up on your prop bet, your CB and the 1 ball would look exactly like this picture.
 

One Pocket Ghost

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That's how it looks when you cinch the combo, if you shoot it with shape in mind ( from an angle) then that theory of it being the easiest opening shot diminishes somewhat huh Ghost???

Nope, it doesn't at all...since all you need is 1/4"-1/2" of angle to keep on playing position, which still makes the shot easy...but besides that, you're putting words in my mouth..:rolleyes:..I never said that the combination was the easiest shot on the table "with shape in mind" - I only said, that it was the easiest shot on the table....:cool:
 

Jeff sparks

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Nope, it doesn't at all...since all you need is 1/4"-1/2" of angle to keep on playing position, which still makes the shot easy...but besides that, you're putting words in my mouth..:rolleyes:..I never said that the combination was the easiest shot on the table "with shape in mind" - I only said, that it was the easiest shot on the table....:cool:


Originally, ahem, you said, "WWYD, how would you plan to run balls?" I took that to mean more than 2!!! Is that or is that not the question you posed? With that in mind, would you shoot the easiest shot on the table?
 

keoneyo

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I didn't say straight.. I said as straight as you can, hat leaves the perfect angle to hit it with just a stop shot stroke and the cue ball will float perfectly.. The shot is a fuccking hanger

After setting up the shot many times Im going to have to agree with you.
I was more accurate with your shot. I was advocating drawing off the 12 into the 5 but after realized your shot was the best to pocket the object ball and continue the run out.

Clearly for me the best shot is your shot.
 

One Pocket Ghost

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Originally, ahem, you said, "WWYD, how would you plan to run balls?" I took that to mean more than 2!!! Is that or is that not the question you posed?

That was the question to y'all...but what's that got to do with me saying that the 1-3 combination is the easiest shot on the table?...:rolleyes:...:frus

With that in mind, would you shoot the easiest shot on the table?

For me there's not just one answer here = my choice of shots here would depend on who I'm playing, if I'm up or down $$$, and the table conditions.
 
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Cary

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The proper way to run these balls is 12 to the 8 trying to get straight on the 8 so you can bank the 5 ball next and then fall on the 10 15. After that you are gone. The reason you go from the 12 to the 8 is because if you dont get straight in on the 8 then you have to have an angle.. well if you have an angle you then go from the 8 to the 10/15 balls and THEN back down for the 5 ball. Once you get rid of the 5 ball your opponents only threat is gone.... Ervolino was a master at running balls like these. You have way more margin of error going from the 12 to the 8 then you do from the 12 to the 10/15 balls... Plus if you get on the 8 right away you might end up with the perfect angle to make the 8 and go nudge the 14 ball leaving you the 13 and 3 next.

The 12 to the 8 gives you so many follow up options with the least degree of getting screwed by your cue ball going too short or far with your opening shot

I hate it when you get it right.

Just my opinion and the way I saw it. Now I'll finish reading the thread and learn the real answer.
 
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