Ghost vs. Steve 7 - the end game - wwyd?

[jtompilot]

I'm coming off the edge of the 5, but just hard and thin enough for the cue ball to get to the bottom rail and not scratch. I don't see a safe angle or a safe speed to get close to the 15 with the rock. For cheap i'm kicking the 15 in, breaking the 1 out and getting the win right here...lol

I played a similar kick on Ian in Vegas and put him in a bind, but there weren’t two balls by the spot to cause a problem.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I see that a lot of our 'regulars' haven't posted up a shot choice here...I guess they must be stumped and don't know what to do...:heh...

Normally, I'd concede in this position, but if I was getting staked I'd play fullish on the left side of the 5 with left, drive the 1 ball half-ball into the 15 clearing them both from the end rail and then park the cue ball on the end rail after the left kills it on the side rail. It looks like the 5 probably won't come down far enough for a bank and should stay on my side.

 

[TxOnePocket]

lol, you are funny Ghost...

first, even if it strikes the 15, so what? the CB will be to the left side of both of those balls and safe right?

secondly, when I first looked at the shot, I did think they were on the spot and frozen. I still may shoot my shot if I think the collision will not cause a sell out.

If it will cause a sell out, then I like kicking at the 15 soft. If I was playing for cheap I may try that kick bank it looks fun

(the 2 rail kick doc / dr bill likes would be ideal but I personally have not practiced it much, I need to, its a good shot, but i am afraid I may hit the wrong side of the balls and sell out)

I'm not sure there was an if, just creative geometry is what I see in ur diagram, if they are froze hitting the 5 pushes it dead on the 15, you'd have to strike the 5 on the opposite side to even consider what you wrote.

It's like i'm not seeing the diagram the same, those balls are angled straight toward the 15 ball.

 

[One Pocket Ghost]

lol, you are funny Ghost...

..........

 

[Island Drive]

..........

Hey Chi Town....settle down Remember, I know the Danaher's (3) and they grew up next to Mayor Daly, buy the old White Sox Park, across the street from the Fire dept. Police Station.

 

[Chandler1968]

I would play Cincy's shot all day. For those who like the 2-rail kick, where are the finishing positions of the two balls moved? I feel a makeable cross corner will be left. Jay

 

[jtompilot]

I would play Cincy's shot all day. For those who like the 2-rail kick, where are the finishing positions of the two balls moved? I feel a makeable cross corner will be left. Jay

I don’t know how it’s possible NOT to leave a bank shot with that two rail kick, your going to leave a bank on the 1 or 5.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Normally, I'd concede in this position, but if I was getting staked I'd play fullish on the left side of the 5 with left, drive the 1 ball half-ball into the 15 clearing them both from the end rail and then park the cue ball on the end rail after the left kills it on the side rail. It looks like the 5 probably won't come down far enough for a bank and should stay on my side.

Which would look something like this. Whether this works depends on exactly how the 5-1 is sitting and you have to estimate the throw.

 

[jrhendy]

Which would look something like this. Whether this works depends on exactly how the 5-1 is sitting and you have to estimate the throw.

View attachment 25312

How in the world did you ever beat me in Texas. I know , you did not shoot any shots like this and you were not getting staked. You are moving all three balls with no pinpoint idea where the cue ball is going and almost certainly going to leave a bank shot to lose the game.

 

[LSJohn]

Which would look something like this. Whether this works depends on exactly how the 5-1 is sitting and you have to estimate the throw.

When I looked at it I thought it looked as though the ball could be thrown enough to miss the 15. If that were the case, I'd love the shot.

However, I've seen people have their ears burned by ignoring what Ghost said in the set-up, and he says you can't miss the 15. I think Ghost probably is somewhat aware of the concept of throw. :heh

 

[Bob Jewett]

How in the world did you ever beat me in Texas. I know , you did not shoot any shots like this and you were not getting staked. You are moving all three balls with no pinpoint idea where the cue ball is going and almost certainly going to leave a bank shot to lose the game.

In Texas I got lucky.

On that shot I think I have a pretty good chance to leave the cue ball as shown or at least within half a ball of the cushion. He can try the bank from there but it's going to be hard to get safe.

I see it as getting two shootable balls on my side and leaving the cue ball stuck.

I don't like the similar shot where I hit the 5 thinner to send the 1 just to the rail and also put the cue ball on the rail, lining the three balls up. If the speed is wrong there's a bank on the 1 ball.

 

[One Pocket Ghost]

ive found for me anyway that the two rail kick out of the side is a great shot. but i personally need three or more balls to shoot it effectively..

Well, as far as 2-rail-kicking out of the corner, I'm with beatle = I prefer to have a 3 or 4 ball lineup to kick at - just a two ball lineup is a bit too small of a target for my tastes...and Steve found that out the hard way - it cost him the game...

He almost hit it good, but he missed the bottom ball (the 9) by a hair and very thinly clipped the top ball (the 5) instead, the cueball then rebounding off of the head rail causing him to sell out - it turned out like this >>>

 

[Billy Jackets]

Gee I wonder what the odds of that happening was?
Just goes to show , if shit can happen , it will !

 

[Jeff sparks]

Brother Ghost,

If it was your shot from there, what would you have shot?

Im afraid I would also have tried the two rail kick, it’s the first shot I saw...

 

[Mkbtank]

Ghost vs. Steve 7 - the end game - wwyd?

Brother Ghost,

If it was your shot from there, what would you have shot?

Im afraid I would also have tried the two rail kick, it’s the first shot I saw...

Jeff it’s nice to see your face in the place!! As always you class up the joint.

 

[One Pocket Ghost]

Brother Ghost,

If it was your shot from there, what would you have shot?

Im afraid I would also have tried the two rail kick, it’s the first shot I saw...

Hey champ, I hope you're doing ok.

Well for good reason, there's no shot that appeals to me here...but since we can't skip our inning and we have to shoot...

I don't like any of the shots that involve touching those two balls in tandem - hard or soft - too much chance of leaving a bank...

...although any of the shots could go bad, leave a bank, etc...for me, and my skill set, I think this shot has the lowest amount of risk involved >>>

I'm a pretty accurate kicker, so I believe I would choose to shoot the shot that Kyb and onedog picked, and analyzed...the shot they posted up, as copied below...

I am kicking at the 15 ball with medium speed. My percentages of catching the left side of the 15 ball are pretty good and dont have to sell out anything offensive for my opponent. There is no way that I am opening up the 2 balls on the spot from here.

I am 1 rail kicking the 15 at about the speed to lag 3 rails to the side pocket. If you hit it right whitey should stay on the good side of the 1 and 5.

- Ghost

 

[Kybanks]

Brother Ghost,

If it was your shot from there, what would you have shot?

Im afraid I would also have tried the two rail kick, it’s the first shot I saw...

Good to see you back in action!

 

[Billy Jackets]

I am an extremely accurate kicker for my skill level, I would actually, rather spend time at kicking practice, and caroming than pocketing balls.
The first shot I considered was kicking the 15 , but for 200 a game , is it judicious to risk losing the game by shooting it
Even if you only take one intentional, and he gives it back to you , now you
still have the option for the kick, or the 2 rail out of the corner with 3 balls to play off of?
I would say that quite a few of the responders would say "yeah ' that's a better option for me with 3 there, which means they would have confidence in the shot and at least have a chance of hitting it well.
I liked this shot the best of all of them, except it is too hard for me to hit the 2 balls that accurately as well.
If I did shoot it, I would have played it thin which is probably what the actual shooter did, to end up with that result.
In my mind , it doesn't matter what level you play at , if you aren't willing to give your opponent a single ball , rather than take chances on losing the game, you will lose a lot of winnable games to inferior thinkers.
{I'd rather saw my thumbs off with my car keys}.
In my opinion the better mover should never shoot the kick at the 15, because it lets the inferior mover off the hook.
An inferior mover, can only flub up, if you put him in a jam, so if you are the thinking player , and in a jam here,
Then, how sick will the non thinker be, when you bunt the cueball over 6 inches and make it an even worse situation for him?
He may not even see the dangers and have a whack at it and give you the game right here, but if you shoot the 15 and let him off the hook , I consider it a huge unforced error.
If they are not an inferior mover, and do something worse to you that you didn't foresee , you just learned that right now , instead of 5 games from now.
I am not trying to upstage anyone or question their view of the game , I'm just trying to voice what goes on in my thought process and hopefully get feedback.
I always felt that even against someone who could spot me the 7 at nine ball, that if they can't force me to give them shots to get multiple balls , they can't win , no matter what the score is.
Simply because I have to make multiple mistakes, while they make 2 or 3 or 4. and I win
To me that's giving me 2 to 1 odds right out of the gate
All of this is less important when you are playing top players who run out from everywhere on any open shot, but they are still human and make mistakes too.
From the answers, only Dr Bill and I seem to think that he is in a really bad spot here.
Which really surprises me.

 

[jtompilot]

I am an extremely accurate kicker for my skill level, I would actually, rather spend time at kicking practice, and caroming than pocketing balls.
The first shot I considered was kicking the 15 , but for 200 a game , is it judicious to risk losing the game by shooting it
Even if you only take one intentional, and he gives it back to you , now you
still have the option for the kick, or the 2 rail out of the corner with 3 balls to play off of?
I would say that quite a few of the responders would say "yeah ' that's a better option for me with 3 there, which means they would have confidence in the shot and at least have a chance of hitting it well.
I liked this shot the best of all of them, except it is too hard for me to hit the 2 balls that accurately as well.
If I did shoot it, I would have played it thin which is probably what the actual shooter did, to end up with that result.
In my mind , it doesn't matter what level you play at , if you aren't willing to give your opponent a single ball , rather than take chances on losing the game, you will lose a lot of winnable games to inferior thinkers.
{I'd rather saw my thumbs off with my car keys}.
In my opinion the better mover should never shoot the kick at the 15, because it lets the inferior mover off the hook.
An inferior mover, can only flub up, if you put him in a jam, so if you are the thinking player , and in a jam here,
Then, how sick will the non thinker be, when you bunt the cueball over 6 inches and make it an even worse situation for him?
He may not even see the dangers and have a whack at it and give you the game right here, but if you shoot the 15 and let him off the hook , I consider it a huge unforced error.
If they are not an inferior mover, and do something worse to you that you didn't foresee , you just learned that right now , instead of 5 games from now.
I am not trying to upstage anyone or question their view of the game , I'm just trying to voice what goes on in my thought process and hopefully get feedback.
I always felt that even against someone who could spot me the 7 at nine ball, that if they can't force me to give them shots to get multiple balls , they can't win , no matter what the score is.
Simply because I have to make multiple mistakes, while they make 2 or 3 or 4. and I win
To me that's giving me 2 to 1 odds right out of the gate
All of this is less important when you are playing top players who run out from everywhere on any open shot, but they are still human and make mistakes too.
From the answers, only Dr Bill and I seem to think that he is in a really bad spot here.
Which really surprises me.

That is hard for me to follow. So what’s your short answer?

 

[darmoose]

I am an extremely accurate kicker for my skill level, I would actually, rather spend time at kicking practice, and caroming than pocketing balls.
The first shot I considered was kicking the 15 , but for 200 a game , is it judicious to risk losing the game by shooting it
Even if you only take one intentional, and he gives it back to you , now you
still have the option for the kick, or the 2 rail out of the corner with 3 balls to play off of?
I would say that quite a few of the responders would say "yeah ' that's a better option for me with 3 there, which means they would have confidence in the shot and at least have a chance of hitting it well.
I liked this shot the best of all of them, except it is too hard for me to hit the 2 balls that accurately as well.
If I did shoot it, I would have played it thin which is probably what the actual shooter did, to end up with that result.
In my mind , it doesn't matter what level you play at , if you aren't willing to give your opponent a single ball , rather than take chances on losing the game, you will lose a lot of winnable games to inferior thinkers.
{I'd rather saw my thumbs off with my car keys}.
In my opinion the better mover should never shoot the kick at the 15, because it lets the inferior mover off the hook.
An inferior mover, can only flub up, if you put him in a jam, so if you are the thinking player , and in a jam here,
Then, how sick will the non thinker be, when you bunt the cueball over 6 inches and make it an even worse situation for him?
He may not even see the dangers and have a whack at it and give you the game right here, but if you shoot the 15 and let him off the hook , I consider it a huge unforced error.
If they are not an inferior mover, and do something worse to you that you didn't foresee , you just learned that right now , instead of 5 games from now.
I am not trying to upstage anyone or question their view of the game , I'm just trying to voice what goes on in my thought process and hopefully get feedback.
I always felt that even against someone who could spot me the 7 at nine ball, that if they can't force me to give them shots to get multiple balls , they can't win , no matter what the score is.
Simply because I have to make multiple mistakes, while they make 2 or 3 or 4. and I win
To me that's giving me 2 to 1 odds right out of the gate
All of this is less important when you are playing top players who run out from everywhere on any open shot, but they are still human and make mistakes too.
From the answers, only Dr Bill and I seem to think that he is in a really bad spot here.
Which really surprises me.

BJ,

I agree with you. As much as I would not like to go backwards, given enough thought to the situation and for a sizable bet, the smartest play is to push over along the top rail and hope he either does something stupid, or puts me back in the same place.

If he did put me back, there would now be 4 balls on the spot and I would shoot the 2 railer out of the corner, as I said back in #15 or #16. The only place I take some issue with your suggestion is I would not want to thin the top ball as you said. I would want to hit the line in the middle and push several balls to my side which also pushes the CB to his side up table.This gives me the best chance of winning this game, as you say.