Ghost vs. Pat 37 - wwyd? - DONE

[Island Drive]

I think even being jacked up, but enough room to comfortably strike the cue ball....
I would just roll up table and glance the side of the 4 ball and try and roll cue ball to rail.
All of the balls on your side are doubled up and your opponent has to figure out where to put you on your side of the table without selling out a bank. It looks like a very simple shot to execute with a good return and you don't lose a ball on an intentional.
Depending on my opponent tendencies, would depend if i wanted to leave the cue ball on long rail or bounce off a bit and triple him up behind the 1.
View attachment 429940

I would of done this, but I don't think, being jacked and rolling a ball for a ''thin'' hit that distance, would of worked for me. Now if I was down on the shot then it's in my wheelhouse. Since I don't have my wheels under me quite yet....to risky. My thinking the player cut the 3 into the 9 carom and tried to put the G man behind the 5, whitey on the long rail dbl up on the 5/13.

 

[Billy Jackets]

I think I am gentle drawing off the three ball to get to the rail froze to the second diamond

Great minds think alike ,or the crack pipe has us both under control
Low left and carom the 3 off the nine , not trying to make the 13 or anything like that or the nine or 5 might sell out. Just trying to freeze the cueball on the rail about the 2nd diamond

 

[gulfportdoc]

I think even being jacked up, but enough room to comfortably strike the cue ball....
I would just roll up table and glance the side of the 4 ball and try and roll cue ball to rail.
All of the balls on your side are doubled up and your opponent has to figure out where to put you on your side of the table without selling out a bank. It looks like a very simple shot to execute with a good return and you don't lose a ball on an intentional.
Depending on my opponent tendencies, would depend if i wanted to leave the cue ball on long rail or bounce off a bit and triple him up behind the 1.

Fats, it looks to me like that shot would leave a free shot on the 11-ball.

 

[catkins]

I think even being jacked up, but enough room to comfortably strike the cue ball....
I would just roll up table and glance the side of the 4 ball and try and roll cue ball to rail.
All of the balls on your side are doubled up and your opponent has to figure out where to put you on your side of the table without selling out a bank. It looks like a very simple shot to execute with a good return and you don't lose a ball on an intentional.
Depending on my opponent tendencies, would depend if i wanted to leave the cue ball on long rail or bounce off a bit and triple him up behind the 1.
View attachment 429940

I looked at this but you will not get enough cover to prevent the extraction of your advantageous position in my oppinion

 

[darmoose]

ghost
words cannot express how much i want to thank you for putting up a thread that has nothing to do about rules....
your wwyd's are very educational and have helped my decision making from the discussions and lessons learned over the years
THANK YOU BRUCE
sincerely
larry

Ghost is gonna retap leaving you right there. You're gonna tap again and so is he. Then you're gonna have to shoot and sell out you unimaginative lil tapper, you...................BTW you're now going to 10 instead of 8, and are in deeper dodo.......

 

[darmoose]

The shot off the 3 (Vapros shot) has possibilities, but if you don't execute and with that rake, you could leave a cross corner and be sad.

I think I would roll off the 4 ball to the long rail attempting to hide him from all the balls on my side other than the ball on my long rail. He's gonna have to come down table and try to get under the 13 ball, and that's what I want him to do.

 

[lll]

Ghost is gonna retap leaving you right there. You're gonna tap again and so is he. Then you're gonna have to shoot and sell out you unimaginative lil tapper, you...................BTW you're now going to 10 instead of 8, and are in deeper dodo.......

i really dont understand your post
it had nothing to do with tapping the cue ball...(there is no confused emoticon i could find)
get a life
just sayin....
happy valentines day

 

[darmoose]

i really dont understand your post
it had nothing to do with tapping the cue ball...(there is no confused emoticon i could find)
get a life
just sayin....
happy valentines day

Sorry, Larry, my bad. I was attempting to quote posts 8 and 9 of yours since you were suggesting a tap foul in post 8.

I was hoping you might enlighten me (us) as to why you would tap foul, and what you might do after the obligatory four taps in a row, now owing two balls and being forced to shoot away.

I've never understood the strategy for tap fouls, unless you are the one wanting to lengthen the game; it serves no other purpose. Just saying......and I still like your politics.

 

[Kybanks]

I dont like moving the 3 ball in this spot because it opens up the 15-6 combo for him. Also you would have to get behind the 5 ball perfectly to not give up the 13 or 12 ball. Also if I were to take an intentional, it would to the 2nd diamond on his long rail behind the 4 ball. Pat's shot could have been a kick combo on the 3 8 12? Lol

 

[lll]

Sorry, Larry, my bad. I was attempting to quote posts 8 and 9 of yours since you were suggesting a tap foul in post 8.

I was hoping you might enlighten me (us) as to why you would tap foul, and what you might do after the obligatory four taps in a row, now owing two balls and being forced to shoot away.

I've never understood the strategy for tap fouls, unless you are the one wanting to lengthen the game; it serves no other purpose. Just saying......and I still like your politics.

you never know what your opponent is going to do
so obligatory four taps in a row,are not always what happens
the taps from an experienced player
might be trying to nudge a ball that isnt quite dead to be on
that would probably be the better playing do that so the weaker player will be at a disadvantage
when he gives back to the stronger player a dead ball that the stronger player created because of his skill
but heaven forbid the stronger player should benefit
because he is better
it really unbeleiveable
you arent a fan of entitlements in politics
but you think the weaker player in entitled to your protection
just sayin
i hope you and your valentine had a great day ....and night....

 

[darmoose]

you never know what your opponent is going to do
so obligatory four taps in a row,are not always what happens
the taps from an experienced player
might be trying to nudge a ball that isnt quite dead to be on
that would probably be the better playing do that so the weaker player will be at a disadvantage
when he gives back to the stronger player a dead ball that the stronger player created because of his skill
but heaven forbid the stronger player should benefit
because he is better
it really unbeleiveable
you arent a fan of entitlements in politics
but you think the weaker player in entitled to your protection
just sayin
i hope you and your valentine had a great day ....and night....

The opportunities to improve your position by "nudging" a ball into a dead shot to your hole are an "urban legend" and literally non existent................well, ok maybe one outta a hundred or so........but, purely by accident.

I been playing this here game for about five decades and I can't remember seeing anybody try to nudge a ball on their first tap into a position where they had a dead ball, and IF that did happen any opponent would nudge it back to where it was or worse, wouldn't he?

You ever seen any real good player practicing "nudging" to get better at it?

When the tapping game starts, it will continue until a player is forced to shoot or lose the game. Neither player is motivated to take a risk and sell out.

 

[lll]

you definitely have me on experience darrell
i dont know what would be available to me after the taps so i cant answer your question above
what would i do after the taps
sorry

 

[one pocket guy]

The 4 ball shot is tricky to me jacked up. I’d try to shoot it but cut it into the 1 to get the cueball to the rail

 

[Hardmix]

I would probably take a intentional and roll up to the 1st or 2nd diamond on his long rail above the side pocket.

 

[darmoose]

you definitely have me on experience darrell
i dont know what would be available to me after the taps so i cant answer your question above
what would i do after the taps
sorry

Larry,

I am simply trying to point out that those who argue there is some strategic value to tapping the CB when frozen against the stack or even frozen against another ball, other than changing the game to make it 25% longer are being somewhat disingenuous in my opinion. For whatever reason other than simply and stubbornly refusing to entertain any change, as if rules of pool games have never evolved and made changes over the decades.

I'm no historian like Bob Jewett, but we all know that there was NO internet until recent times, and therefore no broad communications that would have standardized rules to play OP by (similar to the golf game, local rules controlled). Slowly, by word of mouth OP rules solidified, became codified and accepted. I simply assert that this unintended consequence was never forseen, and because ALL players can find themselves on both side of a tapping battle, no one has felt the need or motivation to fix it.

Having thought a lot about it, I don't see why anyone should be disadvantaged by another's tap foul, or even any other foul for that matter. Knowing that the "option" will have limited application, primarily to end the tapping battles as well as to stop a game from being elongated by 25% in an era where OP is highly criticised for being too slow and too long ought to be enough motive to consider the change IMHO. It will necessarily force more aggressive play and will without doubt be more interesting for spectators to watch.

I have yet to hear what those against it consider to be the downsides of playing with the "option" rule.

Your answer above, I think was honest and true, although it is also true that you would almost certainly face the identical decision at that point as you face before the tapping battle, only having dug a deeper hole and elongated the game by 25%.

Our rules should be changed to eliminate tapping fouls for reasons as stated, and I honestly believe the game would be better with the "option". In an effort to have an honest discussion, absent of stubborn resistance to any change, I would wish some of the experienced players here would expound on the virtues of the "tap foul".

Just saying...........

 

[lll]

I would probably take a intentional and roll up to the 1st or 2nd diamond on his long rail above the side pocket.

why there and not leave him on the stack??

 

[Island Drive]

WDT Ghost think was the correct shot?????

 

[catkins]

why there and not leave him on the stack??

for me the upper corner is a better place for an intentional because it is much more difficult for opponent to get safe if you can cover up the 14 since the one rail lag to the bottom rail is not there and the intentional in the stack is not available. If you don't cover the 14 I think your going to end up on the bottom rail with the 14 on his side but if you get good behind the one ball it could win you the game

 

[Billy Jackets]

Sorry, Larry, my bad. I was attempting to quote posts 8 and 9 of yours since you were suggesting a tap foul in post 8.

I was hoping you might enlighten me (us) as to why you would tap foul, and what you might do after the obligatory four taps in a row, now owing two balls and being forced to shoot away.

I've never understood the strategy for tap fouls, unless you are the one wanting to lengthen the game; it serves no other purpose. Just saying......and I still like your politics.

There are many instances in which a tap foul can be used to lessen the effects of a problem situation.
One of the biggest , would be one ball on the table in front of your pocket and the cueball ends up in the jaws of the top pocket on the same side.
If I take a foul there and you take a foul and then I roll out to the center diamond on the top rail frozen , now there is still a ball in front of your pocket but there are 3 balls on the spot and 1 in your pocket. You need 2 of them and I need 3, I might still lose the game , but he has to do something more than roll the cueball the length of the table. At least I am still alive. I discussed this with a guy who almost never misses a ball, because he brought it up. He made the same shot Preacher Ronn made against Scott Frost , kicked hard at the ball trying to make it and scratch and banked it over in his hole 1 rail, absolutely by accident. When I showed him what I would have done he said Oh ,the opponent would have just made the ball, and broke the others out and won anyway, yeah sometimes he will , but sometimes he won't , how often do you think you will get craphouse lucky and make the ball? Once in a lifetime?

 

[lll]

for me the upper corner is a better place for an intentional because it is much more difficult for opponent to get safe if you can cover up the 14 since the one rail lag to the bottom rail is not there and the intentional in the stack is not available. If you don't cover the 14 I think your going to end up on the bottom rail with the 14 on his side but if you get good behind the one ball it could win you the game

thanks for the explanation of your shot