Gary Spaeth's famous double cross corner bank unraveled!
- Thread starter Dennis "Whitey" Young
- Start date
Dennis "Whitey" Young
Verified Member
John and Kybanks,
I thought I set it up exactly like Gary's shot, but on the side pocket. I even moved the ob and centered it on the point to make it easier.
In my original video I cut the ob to the left. John did a nice shot of course but he is going across the ball not cutting it to the left.
I'll double check the measurement to see if I missed emulating Gary's shot at the side pocket. We can envision the far side pocket point as being the foot rail.
Whitey
I thought I set it up exactly like Gary's shot, but on the side pocket. I even moved the ob and centered it on the point to make it easier.
In my original video I cut the ob to the left. John did a nice shot of course but he is going across the ball not cutting it to the left.
I'll double check the measurement to see if I missed emulating Gary's shot at the side pocket. We can envision the far side pocket point as being the foot rail.
Whitey
gulfportdoc
Verified Member
Finally started making the shot, both 2 rails and 3 rails. I was surprised to see that I got more turn on the OB when the CB was below the OB (closer to the rail than the OB). I would've thought that cutting across the OB from a wider angle would impart more spin to the OB. For example it seems to me that Dr. Dave showed that a half ball hit imparted the maximum amount of side spin to an OB. But, at least on my rather wet Diamond Pro Am with blue label cushions, I got more action from below the OB.
crabbcatjohn
Verified Member
Look at the long rail pocket point in relation to the center of the object ball in the original shot. Thats how you can tell how far off the bottom rail it is. Looks to me like its sitting even with the center of the object ball. None of your shots have been lined up close to that.
If its sitting down lower than that it double kisses like Kybanks advised you way back. I would highly advise you to start out by practicing turning a ball that will actually go and then working your way down to a more extreme angle. Sorry I shot it wrong...lol. fyi..when the cue ball is sitting above the object ball you have to cross the ball to cut it backwards.... if you look where my shot hit the second rail its obvious i cut it away from the bottom rail. i accepted your video challenge.. let's see you make it like I did cross corner.
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Doc, I'm glad you had some success with the shot. Usually if the cb is even or slightly below the object ball is when the shot is on. I've also learned that slightly below is the easiest way to get the object ball to turn. Like I said earlier, some tables won't allow the ball to be turned.
Dennis "Whitey" Young
Verified Member
Doc, you seem to understand Gary's shot, and the fact that I duplicated his shot. You seem to understand that the ob is cut to left and then gears back and the spin that takes over is conducive to coming off the opposite side and enabling the ob to be pocket.
It appears John and kybanks do not agree, or there is some confusion.
I set up Gary's shot similar to it at the side pocket, to represent just how my cushions do not except the gear on the ob, where my cushions are more lively.
Can you help straighten out this confusion!
thanks, Whitey
Whitey, if I knew how to upload a video, I would shoot some 2 and three times cross sides. The one you have set up in your video will only go 3 times. Some tables wont let that ball turn.
Dennis "Whitey" Young
Verified Member
I had my daughter show me how to load videos. It is different than other do it, for if I accidently delete it, then it is gone forever, from this site, utube, everywhere.
This has happened a few times. The back-door bank is now gone. I never felt like re-doing it. Although it is an original bank, I do not believe anyone else every did it before I did it.
thanks, Whitey
This has happened a few times. The back-door bank is now gone. I never felt like re-doing it. Although it is an original bank, I do not believe anyone else every did it before I did it.
thanks, Whitey
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cincy_kid
Verified Member
If you upload something to YouTube, even if you delete it from your camera, it will live online forever unless you go into YouTube and delete the video from there too.
cincy_kid
Verified Member
Take a video with your phone or camera and then put it on youtube. If you have a Google account, you already have a YouTube account since they own it. Log in and upload the video from your phone or PC (if using a camera).
Whitey, I believe the confusion is where you think the object ball is cross corner. The object ball is at least a ball width off the end rail or it wouldn't pass on this shot. Therefore copying this exact cross corner to cross side may not work because side pockets are larger and the exact line to the rail may be different.
Dennis "Whitey" Young
Verified Member
No, I made it with the ob approx. 1-7/8" or less than 2" off of the foot rail, w/ the edge of the ob just past the foot rail point about 1/4" - 3/8".
I have to cut the ob to the left enough so when it comes back it clears the cb.
My cushions by the side pockets are to lively to accept the gearing back needed to do the shot. The only banks available for my side pockets in that similar position is a natural double cross side or a natural cross side. I can not do any of the extreme reverse two or three rail banks.
Whitey
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Dennis "Whitey" Young
Verified Member
I reviewed the original bank replication of Gary's bank on my phone, and since it is on my phone I was able to enlarge the hit upon the rail. On my corner pockets the points are not sharp and are also rounded leading into the actual point.
But, I could clearly see the ob hitting the rounded part of the rail, thus creating a favorable angle.
It reminds me of video posted up, by I believe mr3c of Freddy doing a shot w/ ob frozen to the center diamond foot rail and banking it back cross corner. Bugs did this shot on him. The secret is; on older cushions they round going into the point and thus enable the bank.
Freddy's bank videos are very special, as he is!
Whitey
But, I could clearly see the ob hitting the rounded part of the rail, thus creating a favorable angle.
It reminds me of video posted up, by I believe mr3c of Freddy doing a shot w/ ob frozen to the center diamond foot rail and banking it back cross corner. Bugs did this shot on him. The secret is; on older cushions they round going into the point and thus enable the bank.
Freddy's bank videos are very special, as he is!
Whitey
So I set several 2 and 3 times cross sides and cross corners and long railers. They all go except the 3 times long railer, because I cant hit it hard enough from distance. It goes if I'm close to it but I don't generate the speed like I use to. Video will be coming when I get some time, Stay tuned! Lol
gulfportdoc
Verified Member
Yeah, I had to bang it pretty good to get it to the hole. Not quite break speed, but near to it.
wgcp
Verified Member
Actually hitting a bank like you are trying by hitting a quarter of the ball in relation to the rail will turn it more than a half ball...you just have to be able to hit the knuckleball cue ball like Brumback...and yes the cue clears when hit right...
Think of it this way...a crossing bank hit at a quarter ball will throw (collision induced english) the object ball half a full diamond when hit with a stun cue ball...shooting the same shot using half ball hit will throw the object ball a quarter of a diamond....as Freddy and John B. told me that is why less skilled bank pool players miss short on cross's...
It works for me but it is a combination of both speed and stun...
have fun...
Think of it this way...a crossing bank hit at a quarter ball will throw (collision induced english) the object ball half a full diamond when hit with a stun cue ball...shooting the same shot using half ball hit will throw the object ball a quarter of a diamond....as Freddy and John B. told me that is why less skilled bank pool players miss short on cross's...
It works for me but it is a combination of both speed and stun...
have fun...
Dennis "Whitey" Young
Verified Member
https://photos.app.goo.gl/HntMyKMt6FpPVkon8 Click on arrow then the box to enlarge. The balls are approx. 3/16" off the rail. Watch the cb spin, that is how much I juiced it up! The stroke may look a little goofy but that is how I get the action.
Slow the video down to .5 @ 28 sec. and you will see the very short stroke, like a punch stroke. But as you can see, the ob really carries the spin into the head rail.
Enjoy!
Thanks guys for making this a great thread!
I hope more videos are added as you come across them or do a couple of your own!
Whitey
I had to add this bonus!
https://photos.app.goo.gl/9mBkkPsTEL1n7Hhn6 The 3 ball is frozen to the side rail. Note the position of the balls so the aiming point depicted is relevant. I am on approx. 30 degree angle and 3 ball is frozen just before the 2nd. diamond. Center ball stroke gives the best twist action, using tips of reverse english does no good at all.
For new members go to back pages of Bank Forum 10 -13 and you will find a lot of bank videos, on those threads.
Enjoy! Whitey
Slow the video down to .5 @ 28 sec. and you will see the very short stroke, like a punch stroke. But as you can see, the ob really carries the spin into the head rail.
Enjoy!
Thanks guys for making this a great thread!
I hope more videos are added as you come across them or do a couple of your own!
Whitey
I had to add this bonus!
https://photos.app.goo.gl/9mBkkPsTEL1n7Hhn6 The 3 ball is frozen to the side rail. Note the position of the balls so the aiming point depicted is relevant. I am on approx. 30 degree angle and 3 ball is frozen just before the 2nd. diamond. Center ball stroke gives the best twist action, using tips of reverse english does no good at all.
For new members go to back pages of Bank Forum 10 -13 and you will find a lot of bank videos, on those threads.
Enjoy! Whitey
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NH Steve
Administrator
I am envious as hell!! I'll have to work on these shots. I can bury the 2-3 rail cross side version (except a LOT tougher on the klematch cushioned tables), but have never been able to make the corner pocket versions, either short or long. It seems like I should start by trying them on a short banking table though, preferably with worn cloth.Exactly and I can turn a ball way better from quite a bit lower on a diamond when I can swing my cue harder. Plus the table is foot wider with good felt and live rails.
You just need to have shot them a bunch to get the feel for the shot.. If you play bank at all these are pretty common shots you learn along your journey. I played banks in a bank pool room for 20 yrs. Still a old guy B player though
You guys talking about seeing these anks at Derby -- especially if you are seeing them the first few days of Banks -- that means they were performed with new cloth, because that is how the Derby generally runs, with a good many of the tables having brand new cloth. Not all, but a lot of them, right? So these guys were making those shots on pretty new cloth -- but obviously Diamond tables.
crabbcatjohn
Verified Member
New cloth is too slick to play those banks.. Broke in new cloth giddyup. The key is to trust the shot. It just doesn't look like it will work when you shoot it because you are shooting away from the hole...lol