Gary Spaeth's famous double cross corner bank unraveled!

Kybanks

Verified Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2015
Messages
991
Whitey, none of those banks will go being that close to the rail and the point.
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

Verified Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
3,039
From
Klamath Falls, Or.
John and Kybanks,
I thought I set it up exactly like Gary's shot, but on the side pocket. I even moved the ob and centered it on the point to make it easier.
In my original video I cut the ob to the left. John did a nice shot of course but he is going across the ball not cutting it to the left.

I'll double check the measurement to see if I missed emulating Gary's shot at the side pocket. We can envision the far side pocket point as being the foot rail.
Whitey
 

gulfportdoc

Verified Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2004
Messages
11,427
From
Gulfport, Mississippi
Cut it a hair more with less inside, maybe a half a tip of inside and a dead stunned cb.
Finally started making the shot, both 2 rails and 3 rails. I was surprised to see that I got more turn on the OB when the CB was below the OB (closer to the rail than the OB). I would've thought that cutting across the OB from a wider angle would impart more spin to the OB. For example it seems to me that Dr. Dave showed that a half ball hit imparted the maximum amount of side spin to an OB. But, at least on my rather wet Diamond Pro Am with blue label cushions, I got more action from below the OB.
 

crabbcatjohn

Verified Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Messages
3,850
From
Benton, Ky.
John and Kybanks,
I thought I set it up exactly like Gary's shot, but on the side pocket. I even moved the ob and centered it on the point to make it easier.
In my original video I cut the ob to the left. John did a nice shot of course but he is going across the ball not cutting it to the left.

I'll double check the measurement to see if I missed emulating Gary's shot at the side pocket. We can envision the far side pocket point as being the foot rail.
Whitey
Look at the long rail pocket point in relation to the center of the object ball in the original shot. Thats how you can tell how far off the bottom rail it is. Looks to me like its sitting even with the center of the object ball. None of your shots have been lined up close to that.
If its sitting down lower than that it double kisses like Kybanks advised you way back. I would highly advise you to start out by practicing turning a ball that will actually go and then working your way down to a more extreme angle. Sorry I shot it wrong...lol. fyi..when the cue ball is sitting above the object ball you have to cross the ball to cut it backwards.... if you look where my shot hit the second rail its obvious i cut it away from the bottom rail. i accepted your video challenge.. let's see you make it like I did cross corner.
 
Last edited:

Kybanks

Verified Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2015
Messages
991
Finally started making the shot, both 2 rails and 3 rails. I was surprised to see that I got more turn on the OB when the CB was below the OB (closer to the rail than the OB). I would've thought that cutting across the OB from a wider angle would impart more spin to the OB. For example it seems to me that Dr. Dave showed that a half ball hit imparted the maximum amount of side spin to an OB. But, at least on my rather wet Diamond Pro Am with blue label cushions, I got more action from below the OB.

Doc, I'm glad you had some success with the shot. Usually if the cb is even or slightly below the object ball is when the shot is on. I've also learned that slightly below is the easiest way to get the object ball to turn. Like I said earlier, some tables won't allow the ball to be turned.
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

Verified Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
3,039
From
Klamath Falls, Or.
Finally started making the shot, both 2 rails and 3 rails. I was surprised to see that I got more turn on the OB when the CB was below the OB (closer to the rail than the OB). I would've thought that cutting across the OB from a wider angle would impart more spin to the OB. For example it seems to me that Dr. Dave showed that a half ball hit imparted the maximum amount of side spin to an OB. But, at least on my rather wet Diamond Pro Am with blue label cushions, I got more action from below the OB.
Doc, you seem to understand Gary's shot, and the fact that I duplicated his shot. You seem to understand that the ob is cut to left and then gears back and the spin that takes over is conducive to coming off the opposite side and enabling the ob to be pocket.

It appears John and kybanks do not agree, or there is some confusion.
I set up Gary's shot similar to it at the side pocket, to represent just how my cushions do not except the gear on the ob, where my cushions are more lively.

Can you help straighten out this confusion!
thanks, Whitey
 

Kybanks

Verified Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2015
Messages
991
John and Kybanks,
I thought I set it up exactly like Gary's shot, but on the side pocket. I even moved the ob and centered it on the point to make it easier.
In my original video I cut the ob to the left. John did a nice shot of course but he is going across the ball not cutting it to the left.

I'll double check the measurement to see if I missed emulating Gary's shot at the side pocket. We can envision the far side pocket point as being the foot rail.

Whitey, if I knew how to upload a video, I would shoot some 2 and three times cross sides. The one you have set up in your video will only go 3 times. Some tables wont let that ball turn.
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

Verified Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
3,039
From
Klamath Falls, Or.
I had my daughter show me how to load videos. It is different than other do it, for if I accidently delete it, then it is gone forever, from this site, utube, everywhere.
This has happened a few times. The back-door bank is now gone. I never felt like re-doing it. Although it is an original bank, I do not believe anyone else every did it before I did it.
thanks, Whitey
 
Last edited:

cincy_kid

Verified Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2015
Messages
6,268
From
Northern KY
I had my daughter show me how to load videos. It is different than other do it, for if I accidently delete it, then it is gone forever, from this site, utube, everywhere.
This has happened a few times. The back-door bank is now gone. I never felt like re-doing it. Although it is an original bank, I do not believe anyone else every did it before I did it.
thanks, Whitey
If you upload something to YouTube, even if you delete it from your camera, it will live online forever unless you go into YouTube and delete the video from there too.
 

cincy_kid

Verified Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2015
Messages
6,268
From
Northern KY
Whitey, if I knew how to upload a video, I would shoot some 2 and three times cross sides. The one you have set up in your video will only go 3 times. Some tables wont let that ball turn.
Take a video with your phone or camera and then put it on youtube. If you have a Google account, you already have a YouTube account since they own it. Log in and upload the video from your phone or PC (if using a camera).
 

Kybanks

Verified Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2015
Messages
991
Doc, you seem to understand Gary's shot, and the fact that I duplicated his shot. You seem to understand that the ob is cut to left and then gears back and the spin that takes over is conducive to coming off the opposite side and enabling the ob to be pocket.

It appears John and kybanks do not agree, or there is some confusion.
I set up Gary's shot similar to it at the side pocket, to represent just how my cushions do not except the gear on the ob, where my cushions are more lively.

Can you help straighten out this confusion!
thanks,

Whitey, I believe the confusion is where you think the object ball is cross corner. The object ball is at least a ball width off the end rail or it wouldn't pass on this shot. Therefore copying this exact cross corner to cross side may not work because side pockets are larger and the exact line to the rail may be different.
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

Verified Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
3,039
From
Klamath Falls, Or.
Whitey, I believe the confusion is where you think the object ball is cross corner. The object ball is at least a ball width off the end rail or it wouldn't pass on this shot. Therefore copying this exact cross corner to cross side may not work because side pockets are larger and the exact line to the rail may be different.
No, I made it with the ob approx. 1-7/8" or less than 2" off of the foot rail, w/ the edge of the ob just past the foot rail point about 1/4" - 3/8".
I have to cut the ob to the left enough so when it comes back it clears the cb.

My cushions by the side pockets are to lively to accept the gearing back needed to do the shot. The only banks available for my side pockets in that similar position is a natural double cross side or a natural cross side. I can not do any of the extreme reverse two or three rail banks.
Whitey
 
Last edited:

Kybanks

Verified Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2015
Messages
991
Gotcha, I have a blue label diamond in my house. I havent tried all the 2 and 3 times on it yet. Maybe I will dust em off and try and do a video real soon.
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

Verified Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
3,039
From
Klamath Falls, Or.
I reviewed the original bank replication of Gary's bank on my phone, and since it is on my phone I was able to enlarge the hit upon the rail. On my corner pockets the points are not sharp and are also rounded leading into the actual point.
But, I could clearly see the ob hitting the rounded part of the rail, thus creating a favorable angle.

It reminds me of video posted up, by I believe mr3c of Freddy doing a shot w/ ob frozen to the center diamond foot rail and banking it back cross corner. Bugs did this shot on him. The secret is; on older cushions they round going into the point and thus enable the bank.

Freddy's bank videos are very special, as he is!
Whitey
 

Kybanks

Verified Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2015
Messages
991
So I set several 2 and 3 times cross sides and cross corners and long railers. They all go except the 3 times long railer, because I cant hit it hard enough from distance. It goes if I'm close to it but I don't generate the speed like I use to. Video will be coming when I get some time, Stay tuned! Lol
 

gulfportdoc

Verified Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2004
Messages
11,427
From
Gulfport, Mississippi
So I set several 2 and 3 times cross sides and cross corners and long railers. They all go except the 3 times long railer, because I cant hit it hard enough from distance. It goes if I'm close to it but I don't generate the speed like I use to. Video will be coming when I get some time, Stay tuned! Lol
Yeah, I had to bang it pretty good to get it to the hole. Not quite break speed, but near to it.
 
Top