Events Calendar

[gulfportdoc]

Looks like they're making this bigger than previous years.
Used to be $100 entry and single elimination.
Usually draws a strong field.

Should be a good event. With only six 9' tables, at races to 4, it'll be tough to squeeze the 1P into two days if they get 32 players.

~Doc

 

[sneakynito]

Should be a good event. With only six 9' tables, at races to 4, it'll be tough to squeeze the 1P into two days if they get 32 players.

~Doc

I was thinking the same thing.
I don't know why the rush, though. They don't need the 9fts for any other event all weekend. I'd rather them start Friday and finish Sunday.
You gonna make it this year, doc?

 

[gulfportdoc]

I was thinking the same thing.
I don't know why the rush, though. They don't need the 9fts for any other event all weekend. I'd rather them start Friday and finish Sunday.
You gonna make it this year, doc?

Nah, but I might send my protege, Col. Bille...

~Doc

 

[BRLongArm]

[qote=NH Steve;229994]How about this one?[/quote]

The Scotty Townsend was a good tournament last year. Great field, good venue. Lots of money in the calcutta.

 

[BRLongArm]

I am very happy to see the interest in the tournaments. To me, tournaments are the vehicle through which we can get a one pocket tour, added sponsors, tv/computer coverage and legitimacy of one pocket as the true challenge in pocket billiards.

I hope we as onepocket.org can eventually sponsor professional events to form the nucleus of a tour. Already, we have a few tournaments that I believe could be the anchors of this tour:

1. Derby City Classic: A true, open tournament.
2. Buffalo's: currently the best and toughest tournament other than Derby.
3. West Coast Swing: An open event, I would like to see the entry fee raised.
4. U.S. Open: has not been supported by the players because the promoter takes too much money.

These four tournaments could form the skeleton of a true one pocket tour. I would suggest eight events, with a championship in the fall of each year. What are your thoughts on making this tour a three year project of one pocket.org? A tour would bring all the best rotation players in to compete and with that, more fans and increase interest in the game we love.

I would encourage you to give your thoughts on this as a mission for our forum.

 

[NH Steve]

I am very happy to see the interest in the tournaments. To me, tournaments are the vehicle through which we can get a one pocket tour, added sponsors, tv/computer coverage and legitimacy of one pocket as the true challenge in pocket billiards.

I hope we as onepocket.org can eventually sponsor professional events to form the nucleus of a tour. Already, we have a few tournaments that I believe could be the anchors of this tour:

1. Derby City Classic: A true, open tournament.
2. Buffalo's: currently the best and toughest tournament other than Derby.
3. West Coast Swing: An open event, I would like to see the entry fee raised.
4. U.S. Open: has not been supported by the players because the promoter takes too much money.

These four tournaments could form the skeleton of a true one pocket tour. I would suggest eight events, with a championship in the fall of each year. What are your thoughts on making this tour a three year project of one pocket.org? A tour would bring all the best rotation players in to compete and with that, more fans and increase interest in the game we love.

I would encourage you to give your thoughts on this as a mission for our forum.

I like the idea, but I am confused about your comment of the US Open promoter taking too much money. That's not true for the US Open One Pocket in what I have seen. At the last one they held in CT it just did not get much publicity and on top of that it was hastily scheduled to be hosted at what was initially scheduled as a Straight Pool event. Yet Mark Griffin added the money he announced he would add. He certainly didn't take too much money. The last few were in Vegas, and also had significant added money. When they are adding money, how can they "take to much? I know there is a greens fee but that is way more than offset by the added money.

I've also now and then heard grumblings about the DCC prize money, but one thing people don't realize there is how many FREE entries and rooms they give out to prior winners -- it's a lot!!

I'm also interested in maybe the lesser step of onepocket.org sponsoring a "points" program that has some kind of end of year reward/award, that could include "most improved" "rookie" as well as "points leader", as ideas. The points could be earned at the tournaments you mentioned, but also at others, as long as we could work out how they would be earned and tallied. I believe DCC now for the all-around uses the inverse of your finish, so whoever wins gets 393 points for the One Pocket win if that's how many players were in the tournament -- something along those lines -- at least down to the lower end of the money winners anyway. But there is also a difference in the quality of the fields, and maybe there is a creative way to take that into consideration.

If we collected more results, we could draw from them our own results based rankings.

 

[BRLongArm]

I like the idea, but I am confused about your comment of the US Open promoter taking too much money. That's not true for the US Open One Pocket in what I have seen. At the last one they held in CT it just did not get much publicity and on top of that it was hastily scheduled to be hosted at what was initially scheduled as a Straight Pool event. Yet Mark Griffin added the money he announced he would add. He certainly didn't take too much money. The last few were in Vegas, and also had significant added money. When they are adding money, how can they "take to much? I know there is a greens fee but that is way more than offset by the added money.

I've also now and then heard grumblings about the DCC prize money, but one thing people don't realize there is how many FREE entries and rooms they give out to prior winners -- it's a lot!!

I'm also interested in maybe the lesser step of onepocket.org sponsoring a "points" program that has some kind of end of year reward/award, that could include "most improved" "rookie" as well as "points leader", as ideas. The points could be earned at the tournaments you mentioned, but also at others, as long as we could work out how they would be earned and tallied. I believe DCC now for the all-around uses the inverse of your finish, so whoever wins gets 393 points for the One Pocket win if that's how many players were in the tournament -- something along those lines -- at least down to the lower end of the money winners anyway. But there is also a difference in the quality of the fields, and maybe there is a creative way to take that into consideration.

If we collected more results, we could draw from them our own results based rankings.

There are many ways to do it. I would look at how Golf does its FEDEX cup for a model, or maybe NASCAR.

 

[BRLongArm]

I like the idea, but I am confused about your comment of the US Open promoter taking too much money. That's not true for the US Open One Pocket in what I have seen. At the last one they held in CT it just did not get much publicity and on top of that it was hastily scheduled to be hosted at what was initially scheduled as a Straight Pool event. Yet Mark Griffin added the money he announced he would add. He certainly didn't take too much money. The last few were in Vegas, and also had significant added money. When they are adding money, how can they "take to much? I know there is a greens fee but that is way more than offset by the added money.

I've also now and then heard grumblings about the DCC prize money, but one thing people don't realize there is how many FREE entries and rooms they give out to prior winners -- it's a lot!!

I'm also interested in maybe the lesser step of onepocket.org sponsoring a "points" program that has some kind of end of year reward/award, that could include "most improved" "rookie" as well as "points leader", as ideas. The points could be earned at the tournaments you mentioned, but also at others, as long as we could work out how they would be earned and tallied. I believe DCC now for the all-around uses the inverse of your finish, so whoever wins gets 393 points for the One Pocket win if that's how many players were in the tournament -- something along those lines -- at least down to the lower end of the money winners anyway. But there is also a difference in the quality of the fields, and maybe there is a creative way to take that into consideration.

If we collected more results, we could draw from them our own results based rankings.

These are the results from the US Open Nine ball Bar Table Championships, run by CSI in Las Vegas. Do these payments reflect a major championship? If you finish in the top five, you can't even make your expenses for the week. CSI allegedly added $20,000 total for all tournaments. The entry fee for this event was $150.00. There were 64 entrants. So player money is $9,600 plus $5,000=$14,600. Based on what was posted on his website, less than $12,000 was paid out. Players won't support that kind of rake. We shouldn't either.



Shane Van Boening 821 Sioux Falls South Dakota USA 0 11/7/2017 USBT9 1 3500
James Aranas 0 Bacoor Cavite PHILIPPINES 0 USBT9 2 2100
Jesse Engel 748 Mounds View Minnesota USA 0 11/20/2017USB3 3 1400
Amar Kang 768 Antelope California USA 0 11/28/201 USBT9 4 900
Mitch Ellerman 740 Las Vegas Nevada USA 0 12/8/2017 USBT9 5 600
Shaun Wilkie 745 Havre de Grace Maryland USA 0 12/8/2017 USBT9 5 600
Josh Smith 684 Boise Idaho USA 0 10/15/2017 USBT9 7 400
Skyler Woodward 781 Paducah Kentucky USA 0 11/30/2017 USBT9 7 400
Ernesto Dominguez 732 Sylmar California USA 0 12/26/2017 USBT9 9 225
Demi Jelatis 744 Robbinsdale Minnesota USA 0 12/5/2017 USBT9 9 225
Abrin Schaad 709 Pekin Illinois USA 291 11/15/2017 USBT9 9 225
Billy Stephan 622 Anchorage Alaska USA 0 USBT9 9 225
Vinnie Calabrese 735 Glen Alpine New South Wales (NSW) AUSTRALIA 0 12/10/2017 USBT9 13 150
Oscar Dominguez 768 Sylmar California USA 0 12/26/2017 USBT9 13 150
Dave Strachan 612 Gimli Manitoba CANADA 0 11/30/2017 USBT9 13 150

 

[BRLongArm]

CSI pay outs in 2017 US Open Eight Ball

CSI pay outs in 2017 US Open Eight Ball

Entrants: 93
Entry: $150
Player money: $13,950
Added: $4,000?
Total money: $17,950

Payouts: $13,400

Rake: $4,550
They paid back less than the entry fees and added nothing.
Players are not stupid. They won't support this kind of exploitation. We shouldn't either.
This was the US Open BAR TABLE eight ball championship held at Griff's in Las Vegas in July, 2017.
Source: http://www.playcsipool.com/2017-usbtc.html

 

[BRLongArm]

CSI payouts US Open 10 ball bar table chamionships

CSI payouts US Open 10 ball bar table chamionships

Entrants: 52
Entry fee: $150
Total player money: $7800
Added: $4,000?
Total purse: $11,800
Actual payout: $10,200
Rake: $1,600

Again, players are not dumb. They can add. And they can see that the only one making money on these tournaments is the promoter.

 

[BRLongArm]

I would add that in many states, what CSI is doing in not only wrong, it is a felony. They are taking a rake off tournament money, considered gambling in many jurisdictions. In my state of Louisiana, CSI would have been committing a felony gambling operation.

CSI took nearly $10,000 out of the tournaments in July. That is an unpardonable sin, considering the event was done at the promoter's pool hall and he made money off all the players and customers for the whole week. All money from players entry fees should go back to players. That should be a no brainer.

If a promoter cannot figure out a way to make money without taking it from the professionals who are providing the entertainment, he should get out of the business.

 

[OneRock]

And you don't think CSI is like any other business that has employees and expenses?

 

[NH Steve]

I am only familiar with the One Pocket, and the math for that one was not like that.

 

[BRLongArm]

And you don't think CSI is like any other business that has employees and expenses?

All I can speak to is the tournament I sponsor at Buffalos. It is a hugely successful tournament and Buffalo takes 0 dollars from the player's entry fees and charges no green fee. The only time the players pay is if they gamble, they pay table time. In Louisiana, if anyone takes money from a tournament other than the participants, it is a crime.

 

[BRLongArm]

I am only familiar with the One Pocket, and the math for that one was not like that.

But when a promoter does this to players, they remember. That is why the support for US Open One Pocket has been so poor You asked why I said that, and I gave you the facts as related to me by the players.

 

[BRLongArm]

2016 US Open Championship

2016 US Open Championship

US Open One Pocket

Entrants: 16
Fee: $350
Added $2700
Player money: $5,600

1st: $2500
2nd: $2500
3rd: $1500
4th: $1000
5th: $ 400
6th: $ 400

The money for this tournament doesn't get anybody wanting to go to it. For the duration of the tournament , we are talking about $400 for a flight, $350 for entry, $75 a night for lodging, plus food and misc. You literally have to win or come in second to make any money.

 

[gulfportdoc]

I would add that in many states, what CSI is doing in not only wrong, it is a felony. They are taking a rake off tournament money, considered gambling in many jurisdictions. In my state of Louisiana, CSI would have been committing a felony gambling operation.

CSI took nearly $10,000 out of the tournaments in July. That is an unpardonable sin, considering the event was done at the promoter's pool hall and he made money off all the players and customers for the whole week. All money from players entry fees should go back to players. That should be a no brainer.

If a promoter cannot figure out a way to make money without taking it from the professionals who are providing the entertainment, he should get out of the business.

I've often wondered how promoters or pool room owners made enough money to justify holding tournaments at all. They range from the small events at local rooms, up to the largest U.S. event, the DCC.

For the events that I've promoted in Gulfport, the owner was able to get $1500 to $2000 from the beer distributor to add to the event. The entry fee was usually $125, of which a $15 green fee was deducted. So for a 32 man, 2 day event the owner got $480 in fees ($240 a day) plus whatever the house made on food & beverages. I don't know if that amounted to more than he would have gotten simply in a normal day's revenue from pool players. The increase food/drink sales may have balanced out the decreased table rental revenue. There was a little advertising exposure from local media.

At the high end, as in the DCC, I don't see how Greg makes any money at all, except as a large expense which he can deduct from Diamond's taxable income. He has to guarantee a certain number of hotel rooms rented, or pay the difference, in order to get the venue. There is vendor money, but I don't know what that figure is. It can't be that much. So the added monies he guarantees seem to be strictly out of pocket.

At a place like Buffalos, the tournament crowds certainly spend a lot on food & beverages, plus he gets significant revenue from the video poker machines. The non tournament tables stay busy from action, more so than on regular days, so there's increased revenue. The added monies are provided from benefactors like you.

So it amazes me that there are any large events at all which benefit the pros trying to eek out a living. Potential advertising money is very slim.

~Doc

 

[BRLongArm]

I've often wondered how promoters or pool room owners made enough money to justify holding tournaments at all. They range from the small events at local rooms, up to the largest U.S. event, the DCC.

For the events that I've promoted in Gulfport, the owner was able to get $1500 to $2000 from the beer distributor to add to the event. The entry fee was usually $125, of which a $15 green fee was deducted. So for a 32 man, 2 day event the owner got $480 in fees ($240 a day) plus whatever the house made on food & beverages. I don't know if that amounted to more than he would have gotten simply in a normal day's revenue from pool players. The increase food/drink sales may have balanced out the decreased table rental revenue. There was a little advertising exposure from local media.

At the high end, as in the DCC, I don't see how Greg makes any money at all, except as a large expense which he can deduct from Diamond's taxable income. He has to guarantee a certain number of hotel rooms rented, or pay the difference, in order to get the venue. There is vendor money, but I don't know what that figure is. It can't be that much. So the added monies he guarantees seem to be strictly out of pocket.

At a place like Buffalos, the tournament crowds certainly spend a lot on food & beverages, plus he gets significant revenue from the video poker machines. The non tournament tables stay busy from action, more so than on regular days, so there's increased revenue. The added monies are provided from benefactors like you.

So it amazes me that there are any large events at all which benefit the pros trying to eek out a living. Potential advertising money is very slim.

~Doc

There are eight room owners in the U.S. that can get the added money for a once a year one pocket event. There are enough businessmen and one pocket enthusiasts that will support their room to raise $5,000 or $7,000 added once a year. True, most room owners cannot or will not. But we only need eight. And with Derby City, Buffalos and the West Coast Swing solid, that means we only need 5.

 

[NH Steve]

This one has no One Pocket, but it does include a Banks ring game so I would consider it reasonable to add...

 

[NH Steve]

Another one I am just seeing now that includes One Pocket.