Dumb Question #1

[1 HOLE NUT]

Never really thought about this and not sure it matters much, unless I'm missing something, but I was going to play a guy that I had already played a year or so earlier giving him 11/7, and when we was discussing the spot he demanded that I spot 3 and go to 8, instead of spot 2 and go to 9, he had me so turned around I asked other people in the poolroom and they said 3 balls also, had me second guessing myself for awhile. My question is does it really matter? Where would it come into play at if at all?
I lost this match hill/hill but never really think it came into play, unless it did and I didn't realize it, I know it put me at a metal disadvantage to start the set, but that a whole different animal that I have to tame myself.

 

[crabbcatjohn]

Doesn't make much sense and can be confusing that way...But I dont think there is a rule

 

[J.R.]

Are you playing a descendant of Benjamin Franklin? After all Franklin did say, "A penny saved is a penny earned." Onwards to the dilemma.
Giving an opponent 11 to 7, spotting 3 and going to 8 instead of spotting 2 and going to 9, seems strategically the same... yet it might cost you an extra penny for the rail that everyone always forgets to pick up after the games are played.

 

[Dennis "Whitey" Young]

This is from our OP.org Official One Pocket Rules

9.3 Spotting balls in handicapped games: In the event of a handicapped game with the combined winning ball count needed by the two players totals greater than sixteen at the start of the game, then the player going to the longer count must spot the first ball or balls they score, immediately at the end of the first inning in which they score, as necessary to bring the combined winning ball count back down to sixteen, at which point the game continues in standard fashion.
--------------------
So when you spot 3 it is incorrect. Now you are playing 8-7. so when the game becomes hill hill needing one ball each to win there are now 2 balls remaining on the table, instead of 1 ball.
In spotting the first 2 balls scored now that leaves 1 ball left on the table when you both need one ball to win the game.

I too learned this all from Steve as I questioned why 16 was the magic number, when working on the official rules with him.

Also when going to a lesser combined score of 16, say 8-5, then it is possible for the shooter to score the game winning ball in the opponent's pocket and also the game winning ball in your pocket on the same shot. Then it does not matter which ball is pocketed first, the shooter has won the game.
Whitey

 

[12squared]

Interesting. I would think the better player would like to battle it out when one ball is needed by both. This can't happen when when it's 8-7 after spotting 3. I would also guess that spotting that extra ball may help the incoming player who goes to 7, but not sure. Sounds like he's a smart player.

 

[jrhendy]

When more balls are on the table, the player giving the spot has a sleight advantage. If you are beating him, let him have his way.

 

[mhilton777]

I have always put up 2 coins and gone to 9-7 in this scenario.

Of course I also did not grow up with the ball spots. In Chicago we always did Hit and the pick spots when I learned the game!!

 

[Dennis "Whitey" Young]

Interesting. I would think the better player would like to battle it out when one ball is needed by both. This can't happen when when it's 8-7 after spotting 3. I would also guess that spotting that extra ball may help the incoming player who goes to 7, but not sure. Sounds like he's a smart player.

Yes, it changes the game, I being the lesser skilled player would want two balls remaining on the table when we both need 1. Incorrect, but as you pointed out, if I can get that slight advantage, I'll take it.
Excellent post, Dave!
Whitey

 

[cincy_kid]

I've always played spot 2 and go to 9-7 also for an 11-7 spot. In my experience, when you go over 8 balls, whatever the game/spot is, you try to have the least amount of pennies (balls to spot) involved to get the total back to 16 balls.

 

[lll]

When more balls are on the table, the player giving the spot has a sleight advantage. If you are beating him, let him have his way.

john thats interesting you say that because as the weaker table i would want more balls at the foot end of the table.
so to me jason by you spotting 3 balls you put another ball within reach of your opponent.
jmho
p.s.
jason
i dont think this was your first dumb question.
just kidding
i couldnt resist
larry

 

[LSJohn]

Yes, it changes the game, I being the lesser skilled player would want two balls remaining on the table when we both need 1. Incorrect, but as you pointed out, if I can get that slight advantage, I'll take it.
Excellent post, Dave!
Whitey

I'd say the lesser-skilled player has a disadvantage with two balls on the table over one. The more complicated the game gets, the more advantage to the better player. With two balls, the lesser player will sell out more often than when there is only one, IMO.

 

[Frank Almanza]

Great post. Something to think about.

 

[Jimmy B]

I would not want to fool with all this math and coins all over the place. I would say that the game would be you go to ten and I go to six.. That way it's simple. Good idea?

 

[Dennis "Whitey" Young]

I'd say the lesser-skilled player has a disadvantage with two balls on the table over one. The more complicated the game gets, the more advantage to the better player. With two balls, the lesser player will sell out more often than when there is only one, IMO.

That just does not make any sense.
Oh well, I'll play spotting two balls, you play spotting 3 balls. Maybe you'll do better than 1 Hole Nut!
Whitey

 

[Thecoats]

Personally I feel like if I can get to the last ball I have an advantage even over better ball strikers. I hate the two balls left, both needing one ball to win dynamic enough that I have given lesser opponents a better spot to avoid it. I feel like I can better control the table when there is just a single ball to manage.

 

[NH Steve]

It is right there in our rules (to spot your first 2 and then play 9-7) but there is always the #1 rule when matching up — “whatever the players agree to” and like Hendy said, it depends on how much you like the game, as to what you might be willing to compromise on. Winning little battles sometimes leads to winning a big war

 

[stevelomako]

If you play again, hit him with this…

I’ll spot all my balls at once.

 

[LSJohn]

That just does not make any sense.
Oh well, I'll play spotting two balls, you play spotting 3 balls. Maybe you'll do better than 1 Hole Nut!
Whitey

I only commented on the end game with two balls on the table and each player needing one. Spotting two or three balls in the end game, "That just does not make any sense."

 

[Dennis "Whitey" Young]

I apologize LS John, I now see it is personal preference whether you like 1 ball or 2 balls on the table. And more balls on the table happens when the handicap is lesser, like 8-5.

What happened with 1 hole nut, is that he got traumatized before the match, so much so that he went around to others to get their opinion, and they incorrectly said spot 3, wow! So not a good way to enter into the match, and whether he lost because of it, or not, we do not know.

So what is the common practice to track handicap balls owed the table, and how do you guys remember this?

I would assume it is done in this standard fashion: In a handicap match of say 11 / 9. Then would the player going to 11 then put up 3 coins as being owed to the table, and the player going to 9 then put up 1 coin?
Whitey

 

[lll]

I apologize LS John, I now see it is personal preference whether you like 1 ball or 2 balls on the table. And more balls on the table happens when the handicap is lesser, like 8-5.

What happened with 1 hole nut, is that he got traumatized before the match, so much so that he went around to others to get their opinion, and they incorrectly said spot 3, wow! So not a good way to enter into the match, and whether he lost because of it, or not, we do not know.

So what is the common practice to track handicap balls owed the table, and how do you guys remember this?

I would assume it is done in this standard fashion: In a handicap match of say 11 / 9. Then would the player going to 11 then put up 3 coins as being owed to the table, and the player going to 9 then put up 1 coin?
Whitey

Whitey
I think you are correct