Danny D vs Ronnie Allen

mr3cushion

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I guess that explains that🤣
Danny didn’t have to shoot those 1%ers because he didn’t need too, Artie would only shoot them if he had no choice.
Not even short of a '357' to the head would Artie shoot a, 1%/flyer/losing shot against a Top or any player AKA Sucker.

I watched him play Many weak players, '2 block "4's" or "5's" where He 'Might' shoot an off angle shot to open some balls to run, 4's and 5's.

That's about it. Out of the 2 or 3 members here and Larry Schwartz that actually/knew/saw/bet with or on him in his prime, All other info here is just hearsay and speculation!
 

jtompilot

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Not even short of a '357' to the head would Artie shoot a, 1%/flyer/losing shot against a Top or any player AKA Sucker.

I watched him play Many weak players, '2 block "4's" or "5's" where He 'Might' shoot an off angle shot to open some balls to run, 4's and 5's.

That's about it. Out of the 2 or 3 members here and Larry Schwartz that actually/knew/saw/bet with or on him in his prime, All other info here is just hearsay and speculation!
Did Artie and Ronnie play? I’m guessing that they would have been in their prime about the same time frame.

I need to watch the Danny/Ronnie match again, my first impression is that Danny didn’t play like a 1P player.
 

mr3cushion

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Did Artie and Ronnie play? I’m guessing that they would have been in their prime about the same time frame.

I need to watch the Danny/Ronnie match again, my first impression is that Danny didn’t play like a 1P player.
They did not. I would say the, 'betting game' for Artie and Ronnie would have been, 10/8 - 9/8 Ronnie. The same reason Artie would only play Bugs, 9/8. If Artie won Even, He didn't want to give up all the Big spots RA gave up.
Ronnie is about 5 years older than Artie. Artie was in his Prime from, late 60's - late 70's.

BTW, don't everyone think Ronnie was stealing playing AB, 'One-handed' 1 pocket. Artie beat the GOAT One-handed player 'Agusate' playing 1P and 8 ball.
 

gulfportdoc

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They did not. I would say the, 'betting game' for Artie and Ronnie would have been, 10/8 - 9/8 Ronnie. The same reason Artie would only play Bugs, 9/8. If Artie won Even, He didn't want to give up all the Big spots RA gave up.
Ronnie is about 5 years older than Artie. Artie was in his Prime from, late 60's - late 70's.

BTW, don't everyone think Ronnie was stealing playing AB, 'One-handed' 1 pocket. Artie beat the GOAT One-handed player 'Agusate' playing 1P and 8 ball.
Seems to me that neither guy would give in while matching up. It may have come down to an argument over which cueball to use, and they couldn't agree. Artie would have shown RA a game that Ronnie was not accustomed to...:cool:

Yeah, RA was born in '38, Artie I believe in early '45. I think Artie is 6 mos. younger than I (9/10/44), but I'm not positive.
 

mr3cushion

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Seems to me that neither guy would give in while matching up. It may have come down to an argument over which cueball to use, and they couldn't agree. Artie would have shown RA a game that Ronnie was not accustomed to...:cool:

Yeah, RA was born in '38, Artie I believe in early '45. I think Artie is 6 mos. younger than I (9/10/44), but I'm not positive.
Artie was born in 44, he just had a birthday about 3 weeks ago.
 

NH Steve

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Somewhere in one of my interviews that topic -- Ronnie vs Artie -- came up and if I recall correctly, they never quite sorted out the match-up terms. As mr3cushion mentions, Artie would not have been to keen on word getting around if he beat Ronnie near even.
 
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jrhendy

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Somewhere in one of my interviews that topic -- Ronnie vs Artie -- came up and if I recall correctly, they never quite sorted out the match-up terms. As mr3cushion mentions, Artie would not have been to keen on word getting around if he beat Ronnie near even.

Ronnie/Artie and many of the old time players always wanted some kind of edge before they pulled the trigger and played. It could have been the cue ball used, which table to play on …ect. It did not have to be a big thing as long as you got your way about something.

Ronnie’s style against Artie’s, would have been a match for the ages.
 

mr3cushion

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Artie always wanted to play, 'Shooters' instead of, 'Movers'.

You can't change the 'natural inclination' a shooter has to take that flyer.

A 'Mover's inclination' is to 'think'. Artie didn't want to wake up good mover's to his total style/thinking during certain stages of the game. A player like Bugs was the exception! It was steady in town action and for Big$ in the mid 60's - early 70's.
 
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lll

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Artie always wanted to play, 'Shooters' instead of, 'Movers'.

You can't change the 'natural inclination' a shooter has to take that flyer.

A 'Mover's inclination' is to 'think'. Artie didn't want to wake up good mover's to his total style/thinking during certain stages of the game. A player like Bugs was the exception! It was steady in town action and for Big$ in the mid 60's - early 70's.
Wouldnt you say bugs was a shooter-more than a mover?
 

baby huey

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I think not enough credit is given to Ronnie Allen. He did change the game. He was flashy and a lot of Fast Eddie was in him. No matter how you define him, one thing is for sure; he made One Pocket a fun game to watch. I would have to ask Dr. Bill, John Henderson and Frank the Barber but I'm pretty sure they never saw RA play a "Wedge Game." His games went pretty fast. Mr. 3C might disagree but Artie would have his hands full with RA. But by todays standards, neither of those two players could win against Alex, Tony, Busty and Dennis IMO. Their offense is too strong and RA/AB couldn't handle that offensive barrage game after game.
 

NH Steve

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I think not enough credit is given to Ronnie Allen. He did change the game. He was flashy and a lot of Fast Eddie was in him. No matter how you define him, one thing is for sure; he made One Pocket a fun game to watch. I would have to ask Dr. Bill, John Henderson and Frank the Barber but I'm pretty sure they never saw RA play a "Wedge Game." His games went pretty fast. Mr. 3C might disagree but Artie would have his hands full with RA. But by todays standards, neither of those two players could win against Alex, Tony, Busty and Dennis IMO. Their offense is too strong and RA/AB couldn't handle that offensive barrage game after game.
They got a little window into the future with Harold Worst -- apparently none of the guys from that generation wanted action with him once he really picked up the game. Too bad he died at 39 or so :(
 

mr3cushion

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I think not enough credit is given to Ronnie Allen. He did change the game. He was flashy and a lot of Fast Eddie was in him. No matter how you define him, one thing is for sure; he made One Pocket a fun game to watch. I would have to ask Dr. Bill, John Henderson and Frank the Barber but I'm pretty sure they never saw RA play a "Wedge Game." His games went pretty fast. Mr. 3C might disagree but Artie would have his hands full with RA. But by todays standards, neither of those two players could win against Alex, Tony, Busty and Dennis IMO. Their offense is too strong and RA/AB couldn't handle that offensive barrage game after game.
Jerry, what makes you think RA or AB couldn't raise their games to todays standards? I do believe they could, ,along with Bugs and Taylor. When they were in their respective Prime's.

Guys like, my dear friend, Jimmy Fusco wanted 10/8 - 9/7 from AB. Cecil played a style akin to Cliff's game, and AB just robbed/broke him and my friend Harold Denson. I was there, I told Harold not get down, He said, "I got the Serpent with me, whatchu talking about!"

Just as when they asked Ceulemans, "How would Hoppe, Schaffer, Cochran do in this era?" Raymond Ceulemans replied, "They were true Champions, they would adapt, that's what Champions do!"
 
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baby huey

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Bill, I have a lot of respect for you and your knowledge of all cue games. Every generation has its unique players regardless of the game. Joe Dimagio's hitting streak, Ted Williams batting average and Sandy Kofax's pitching to mention a few in a different sport. But these current group of One Pocket players are pretty amazing to watch. The Russian, Gorst, may be just might become the best player we've ever seen. Time will tell. But RA/AB were the BEST of their time. I just think this group is better.
 

HowardK

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Bill, I have a lot of respect for you and your knowledge of all cue games. Every generation has its unique players regardless of the game. Joe Dimagio's hitting streak, Ted Williams batting average and Sandy Kofax's pitching to mention a few in a different sport. But these current group of One Pocket players are pretty amazing to watch. The Russian, Gorst, may be just might become the best player we've ever seen. Time will tell. But RA/AB were the BEST of their time. I just think this group is better.
Difficult to claim that Tony, SVB and Gorst with others are better than the vintage one pocket players of the past: Ronnie and Artie. I do believe Ceulemann's remark that true champions will adapt. This era's one pocket players play tremendous. It will be interesting to see what the next generation of players can do.
 

mr3cushion

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Bill, I have a lot of respect for you and your knowledge of all cue games. Every generation has its unique players regardless of the game. Joe Dimagio's hitting streak, Ted Williams batting average and Sandy Kofax's pitching to mention a few in a different sport. But these current group of One Pocket players are pretty amazing to watch. The Russian, Gorst, may be just might become the best player we've ever seen. Time will tell. But RA/AB were the BEST of their time. I just think this group is better.
I appreciate that. The players today 95% of the time play on pristine/consistent conditions, more events than ever. IMPO, 50% of these players would have trouble drawing the CB 8' on the old cloth and cushions, translating into being less accurate! Back in the day, I was one of a few in this country that could get 9 cushions accurately. On the cloth/rubber/cues, today I can get 11 cushions/with ticky 12 on a 3C table!
 

lfigueroa

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Several year back I had dinner across the way from Danny at Tunica and asked him about his match with Ronnie.

He didn't say much other than commenting that Ronnie's wife was constantly talking and sharking him.

Lou Figueroa
 

lll

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Several year back I had dinner across the way from Danny at Tunica and asked him about his match with Ronnie.

He didn't say much other than commenting that Ronnie's wife was constantly talking and sharking him.

Lou Figueroa
dont you think the old timers were shark proof??
 
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