Cushions brand

3RAILKICK

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Jul 5, 2005
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Does it matter?

Artimus/Artemis?

Ridgeback?

Diamond black/black Diamond?

Brunswick Superspeed?

whatever?

What cushions do you like? and why? for all games/or banks only?

The artemis are pricey, but are they the best choice?

I ask because I am ignorant-I do not know.

Thanks
 

John Brumback

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Dec 6, 2010
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1,747
Does it matter?

Artimus/Artemis?

Ridgeback?

Diamond black/black Diamond?

Brunswick Superspeed?

whatever?

What cushions do you like? and why? for all games/or banks only?

The artemis are pricey, but are they the best choice?

I ask because I am ignorant-I do not know.

Thanks

Sorry I can't help ya.But good Idea on choosing wisely.You'll be glad you did.
The kind that comes on a Diamond pro,I would think.I just don't know what they are called.LOL Good luck too. John B.
 

pool101

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Nov 20, 2011
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I think Diamond has 2 levels of rubber, 1 is the Diamond Black, and the upgrade is the Arthimis sp?
I have read that the arthimis is #1 in quality.
I think for a home table the Diamond black would be fine and it is highly recommended if you can not afford, or do not want to spend the money for
the upgrade.
 

lll

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vero beach fl
i think you should match the rail to the table
im not a table mechanic
azb has a section to talk to a table mechanic
http://forums.azbilliards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=54
you may want to post your question there and then educate us here with what you have learned:)
i recently bought an old brunswick gold crown 2
my table guy recommended the super speed rails as the best replacement
my guess is because they are brunswick
 

Cary

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Bertram, Texas
I'm in the process of renovating my GCIII and keep going in circles. On AZ, Artimus is the consensus choice, at least for longevity, but I'm not willing to pay twice the price for something to outlive me. Which leaves Superspeed, Black Diamond, and Accufast (if you can find it).

Larry, I understand a while back Brunswick had quality issues with the Superspeed but they are reportedly corrected now. How have yours worked out for you?

Anyone else have an updated opinion?
 

straightback

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owensboro, ky
I'm in the process of renovating my GCIII and keep going in circles. On AZ, Artimus is the consensus choice, at least for longevity, but I'm not willing to pay twice the price for something to outlive me. Which leaves Superspeed, Black Diamond, and Accufast (if you can find it).

Larry, I understand a while back Brunswick had quality issues with the Superspeed but they are reportedly corrected now. How have yours worked out for you?

Anyone else have an updated opinion?

I recently renovated a GCIII and used the Diamond Black. Many shortstops and a few pros have played on it and love the way it plays and banks. It does no bank short like a lot of Diamond Tables do, it is quite consistent and I cannot see being able to be any happier with the higher priced Artemis.

Having said that, I would check around d and see what has worked well for YOUR table. Some cushions just don't jive with some tables.
 

lll

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vero beach fl
I'm in the process of renovating my GCIII and keep going in circles. On AZ, Artimus is the consensus choice, at least for longevity, but I'm not willing to pay twice the price for something to outlive me. Which leaves Superspeed, Black Diamond, and Accufast (if you can find it).

Larry, I understand a while back Brunswick had quality issues with the Superspeed but they are reportedly corrected now. How have yours worked out for you?

Anyone else have an updated opinion?

i have had no problems with my rails
the shortstops and pros that have played on it have commented on how true it plays
p.s. i have superspeed on my gc2 installed 2-3 years ago
 

NH Steve

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My local club just approved two brand new GC 5 tables with an upgrade to the Artimis cushions & supposedly extra thick slate. They are trading in the two GC 2's (I think that's what they are) that have been there for a while. I look forward to playing on them.

For a while the two GC 2's banked really differently even though they supposedly had exactly the same cushions and rails. Apparently there was a slight height difference in the cushions between the two tables. Last time they were re-covered I guess they adjusted that because the two tables do play consistently now. I never realized how much just a tiny height difference could make.
 

gulfportdoc

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My local club just approved two brand new GC 5 tables with an upgrade to the Artimis cushions & supposedly extra thick slate. They are trading in the two GC 2's (I think that's what they are) that have been there for a while. I look forward to playing on them.

For a while the two GC 2's banked really differently even though they supposedly had exactly the same cushions and rails. Apparently there was a slight height difference in the cushions between the two tables. Last time they were re-covered I guess they adjusted that because the two tables do play consistently now. I never realized how much just a tiny height difference could make.
It might be the angle of the cushions. For example my understanding of the difference between Diamond's "blue label" as updated from their older "red label" rails is simply an angle change. I believe they use the same rubber, but angle the rail differently. The change is to make the balls respond more similar to the GC's and other tables.

I have a "blue label" Pro-Am, and the rails seem to bank more naturally than does the "red label". The difference is slight.

~Doc
 

Cary

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Bertram, Texas
Thanks for the replies. I've spent quite a bit of time researching cushions & rails over the past several weeks and remain confused. Some of what I've learned is:

Gold Crowns have wooden rails designed to function correctly with the K55 profile cushions. Don't try to use K66 profile cushions on a GC unless you're willing to have someone alter the height/angle of the wooden rails, it won't work. Most other tables currently manufactured use the K66 cushion profile. There are dimensional differences between the two which apparently result in the nose of the K66 being higher if used on a table designed for K55's. As I understand it, Diamonds began with K66 profile cushions which from various reports did not work well (or at least banked differently than GC's) with their rail design. The change Doc refers to is from K66 profile cushions to K55's which also required a slight redesign of the actual rails to make them work. From an engineering/design stand point the new version of Diamonds should react and bank exactly like Gold Crowns. There are still differences in the rubber compounds used by various manufacturers. On the premium level Diamonds, the cushions are made by Artimus (K55 profile) who, in order to maintain a level of confusion among the masses I suppose, call their cushions "Model 66" regardless of the profile. Their "Intercontinental Model 66" cushions are K55 profile while their "Pool Model 66" cushions are K66 profile. The less expensive Diamond tables have the Diamond Black K55 cushions which I'm told are in reality equal to the Artimus cushions at a much lower price (roughly half). Olhausan uses "Accufast" cushions and to some extent the Accufast cushions are proprietary to Olhausen. They are however available to the public from a few sources. Those sources claim they are equal to the Artimus (which they also sell) and are somewhat less expensive. Brunswick still makes their tables with Superspeed cushions, most with the K66 profile I'm told (I understand that the GC V has K66 profile cushions--could be true). As I said above, I'm told that the Artimus cushions last longer (start fast & stay fast) than Superspeed (start fast but slow down after a few months). This obviously may or may not be true as I've known of Gold Crowns with 10-15 year old cushions that played as well as new GC's.

Anyone confused yet?

All of the cushions mentioned above are considered "premium" cushions and range in price from $120.00 (Diamond Black) to $395.00 (Artimus) a set. The least expensive cushions run around $55.00, usually with no brand name. I have a bid in on eBay for K55 Superspeeds (started at $75.00, available on line from $127-$150). We'll see what happens but worst case it should play like a new GC III. Which is a lot better than I do.
 

gulfportdoc

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I just got a 9' Centennial. Was restored with Black Diamond. I gave the restorer the green light to use what he thinks plays best on that table. I'm not a finely tuned player but recognize some differences on the table. 2 -3 banks are much different than the GC4, Diamond Pro Am and Tom Wirth's GC. 3 railers on the 2nd diamond comes out very long. Not sure if it's a table characteristic, the rails or the set up is not 100%. Also 2 rail banks are coming up short. Not sure if simply have to learn the table or something is not kosher and I need a tech to refine the rails. The person that restored and set up is not a tournament player, does not set up for tournaments or better level players so that explains some the hiccups. The leveling seems to have been done well.
I bet that's a great looking table. The Centennial has a beautiful art deco look with the metal sides and foundations. Re your table's rails, I don't know much about the Black Diamond rails. I have a standard blue lable Diamond Pro Am. But something does sound fishy if the 3 railers are going long but the 2 railers are going short. I assume you mean 2 railers back and forth.

I do know that the balls will roll long on a new cloth, and will go especially long with newly polished pool balls. I stopped using commercial polish (like Brillianize) on mine because it took several hours of play to have them come off the rails normally.

I don't know where you live, but perhaps you could have a guy familiar with GCs to assess your table.

Good luck!
~Doc
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Klematch are the most expensive, and are the best cushions for responsiveness, and true bounce for banking, meaning the ball will come off the rail on its true angle.
This makes the pockets not so readily except the balls as we see on 9' Diamonds when the rail is contacted prior to the pocket.

The balls will bank truer, and will not reverse coming off the 2nd bank rail like it does on Diamond Artemis cushions or any of the other cushions available.

A true perfectionist of the game, and a player that does not want double banks to be compromised, and wants pockets to play tough would then want Klematch. 4-1/2" pockets on Klematch cushions would play plenty tough, but Diamonds have to go to 4-1/4" to toughen up the pockets, as the ball contacts the rail before the pocket.

I think Steve will agree with this depiction, for he has played on Klematch. He does not like them for some unique banks that really grab reverse coming off the 2nd bank and thus are doable, are not doable with Klematch. Like the cross over from side to side pocket banks. The banks will not shorten up as much either.

I would get a professional opinion on this before investing, I am not a professional when it comes to cushions, and am mainly surmising but no one else has mentioned these cushions.
Whitey
 
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gulfportdoc

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Thanks for the reply. Could be everything is new and I’m old but think I know someone that is familiar with various aspects of tables and how the should play if set up correctly. He goes by TRW. Maybe I can talk him into test driving the table. I’m in S . Florida. A Philadelphian in a world of NYr’s. This is the 2 railer. Ends up at 1 ball
Beautiful table, GC! My guess is that the 2 railer seems to come short because the 4 ball actually slides off the first rail (or rolls long), and not because it comes short off the second rail.

Are the balls new and polished? If not, and the play doesn't improve, then you'd probably be making a good decision to bring in an expert to analyze the table.
 

12squared

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Mar 14, 2005
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Fort Collins, CO
I think that whichever rubber is chosen, it's equally important to make sure the sub-rails angle match the rubber. The expert on centennial/anniversary tables us Mark Gregory in Atlanta area. I would call him and see if he knows the answer to your problem and if he knew of someone in your area he trusts to evaluate in person and do the work necessary. But like doc mentioned, it simply could be new cloth polished balls and it needs to break in.

If you look at his Facebook page you'll see he typically redoes the rails most times. https://www.facebook.com/mark.gregory.9889

Good luck. On a side note, I had an older GC 1 withe the original red rubber cushions, they played the most like a 3 cushion table than any I've played before. From the corner you would hit the 3rf diamond to hit the 2nd diamond on the return rail taking the cueball to the corner. Most pool tables play shorter where you need to hit closer to the 2nd diamond to get to the corner.
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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GoldCrown,
Standard Diamond system for pool tables, at least of yesteryear, GC's with authentic rubber, was for a standard 3 rail out of the pocket to the 2nd diamond - 3rd diamond. The math: Pockets are 5 and the 3rd diamond is the diamond that lines up to the pocket. So 5-2 = 3 and should hit the 3rd diamond that should correspond to the pocket. Note: the diamond system for rails of today are different, so one has to figure it out for their own table.
When kicking (only using the cb) 6-1=5. This is the 5 rail bank. 6 being the 1st. diamond foot rail. 5-1=4. 4 being the side pocket. Your table playing long is a result of your rails playing softer. So in doing the standard 3 rail kick from one foot corner pocket to the other it is running long. What is happening is softer rails puts added spin on the cb thus stretching out the angles, and the results are it is going long.

In the picture of the 2 rail coming short the diamond system is 7-2 = 5! 7 being the center diamond foot rail, and 5 being the pocket.
I would just use the cb hitting center ball from 7 to 2 and see if you pocket the cb. If short then try running english of a half tip. Your shot example could be the result of new cloth causing the cb to skid off the first rail which puts some reverse on it coming off the 2nd rail.

Systems are meant to stroke threw the diamond, and not on the rail in front of the diamond.

When banking multi-rail banks I always use just a little running english on the cb to get the ob to roll natural, unless I need to shorten up the bank angle, I then would use a little inside english unless I am coming across the face of the ob then I would use center cb.
Whitey
 

GoldCrown

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I’m far from being knowledgeable just learn from reading, doing, you guys. If I read correctly somewhere Black Diamonds are for 7-8 foot tables. 9 calls for Artimus or super speed that I had poor results with on my GC 4. They played ok but turned to cement before their time.
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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I’m far from being knowledgeable just learn from reading, doing, you guys. If I read correctly somewhere Black Diamonds are for 7-8 foot tables. 9 calls for Artimus or super speed that I had poor results with on my GC 4. They played ok but turned to cement before their time.
Yes, I believe Black Diamonds were used on their 7' tables. I liked how they played, they banked/kicked well and were responsive enough around the corner pockets to make the pockets respectable. I would think they would work fine a 9' diamond table, and I wish diamond would go to them instead Artemis, I guess they do on some special set ups.

Just maybe they are not a fit for GC's, or glued on improperly, possibly the cloth was stretched improperly on the rails. Stretching to tight makes them play soft.
Here is a # to call; Ken @ 410-256-8388, this is what he does sell cloth and cushions for pool tables, he will answer. I would think he could set you up with the cushions that work best for your GC. He told me that on my 5 x 10 Klematch would work.
Klematch is a very popular cushion for 3C Billiards. In watching 3C it is apparent that they hold their angle coming off the 2nd cushion when doing a double bank.
Whitey
 
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Dennis "Whitey" Young

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https://photos.app.goo.gl/scNTD9CyvFYEWooJ9
I was talking to Baby Huey, and he stated that the fact that my rails sat in storage for 30 yrs was harder on them than playing on them. Playing softer as they do now, sure makes a difference.

Gold Crown, this might give you another table reactions as compared to yours, I hope it is helpful. I used a half tip of running english on the side pocket shot and the 5 rail shot.
As you can see on the 3 rail corner to corner kick, when using no english it went long. This is because on each contacted rail it continually widens the angle, therefore by the time it comes off the 3rd. rail the angle then is quite wide and thus misses the mark, long! A little running english helps cure this problem, although I do not know exactly why.
Whitey
 
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