Break Question?

one pocket guy

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I was playing today and broke so badly a ball went in the opponents pocket.
Now we’re playing the rule if you pocket a ball you re rack. But,
my opponent said it counted for him. His shot.
Is that correct? I’ve never had it happen so I said ok and eventually lost the game.
Not upset I broke even for the session and he is friend and good guy but just askin~T
 

sorackem

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we’re playing the rule if you pocket a ball you re rack
:)
You should leave that one ball in the pocket - re-rack 14 and break again except calling that other pocket, your pocket now. 🙄😕🤕😲🤫

Since the new break would technically be the first stroke of your first inning and results with a ball in your pocket - you are still at the table shooting.
(I suggest you smash em).
 

lll

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the dcc rules say a ball on the break re rack
doesnt say which pocket
just like if you scratch on the break
thats a ball made on the break
do you rereack?
 

catkins

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my view is that if a ball is made in your pocket it is re rack not any other pocket on the table. I still think that if a ball goes in yoru pocket it is a rerack regardless of any thing else including scratch if your going to play ball on the break doesn't count
 

Bob Jewett

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I think the DCC rules meant to say, "If a ball is made on the break in the breaker's pocket without a foul ...", but that's not what they said.
 

cincy_kid

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The purpose of the rerack rule is so the player breaking can't do a special rack that allows him to make a ball in his hole and continue shooting when he is racking his own. If you scratch or make a ball in your opponents hole you would continue from there... like bob said dcc didn't put all that in there but I would think that's how it should be played.
 
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NH Steve

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The purpose of the rerack rule is so the player breaking can't do a special rack that allows him to make a ball in his hole and continue shooting when he is racking his own. If you scratch or make a ball in opponents hole you would continue 3 from there... like bob said dcc didn't put all that in there but I would think that's how it should be played.
I agree with this.
 

catkins

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I do not think that people make balls on the break because they set the rack I think the honest truth is that some conditions promote making a ball on the break regardless of whether you scratch or not. It is simple to state a rule that if you make a ball in your pocket on the break it is a rerack. Taking away the advantage of making a ball on the break and not allowing it to nullify scratches is slanting to far in favor of the incoming player. I am not actually in favor of ball on the break not counting any how unless it is agreed in a gambling match. and than all the nuances can be discussed before hand the same way you discuss base of ball ect.
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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A DCC meme rule that we now realize is wrote 'ambiguously'. So by the DCC rule as written they played it out incorrectly!
But otherwise,
I am in agreement with Steve and Cincy KId and others that share this opinion; a ball scored in the breaker's pocket is a re-rack unless it is accompanied with a pocket scratch then the opponent gets bih.
For this stays in line with the standard break rule of scratching, or at any other time a scratch occurs. I would not want to circumvent the scratch rule for this one scenario.

Thanks for bringing this up, for it just shows how important it is to write rules unambiguously as possible. It is a great reminder not to make that mistake. Whitey
 

cincy_kid

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I do not think that people make balls on the break because they set the rack I think the honest truth is that some conditions promote making a ball on the break regardless of whether you scratch or not. It is simple to state a rule that if you make a ball in your pocket on the break it is a rerack. Taking away the advantage of making a ball on the break and not allowing it to nullify scratches is slanting to far in favor of the incoming player. I am not actually in favor of ball on the break not counting any how unless it is agreed in a gambling match. and than all the nuances can be discussed before hand the same way you discuss base of ball ect.
I hear you and I dont mean to imply there's a special rack you can do to always make a ball on the break. Maybe there is and I just dont know it. But I know for a fact that it is possible to rack them bad for your opponent. It has been done to me and I have done it myself when I first learned about it and wanted to try it out lol. So to prevent that you MUST go examine the rack after they rack and hope you can find anything they may have done to it (loose balls, all balls not frozen, rack tilted one way or another, etc). This takes time and the much more practical solution is to just let the breaker rack his own balls. That way, if he does a bad rack, it's on him not his opponent.

Scratching on the break or making a ball in your opponents pocket is a bad break by you. You should never be given a "mulligan" in either case IMO. Making a ball in your own hole could be luck, a good break or something shifty going on so the best solution is just re-rack them. Besides I feel that the break should be a defensive shot any ways, this isn't 9 ball! :)
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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I am surprised that scoring on the break and re-racking has gotten legs, for it happens so seldom. I can see a reason for it in a tournament short race, but otherwise in general play I see no reason for it all. In the 2018 MOT out of all the games played it happened once. In the recent challenge matches race to 24 or a possible 48 games it may of happened once or twice during those matches.

So I guess you can throw it out the window that there is a special way to rack the balls to score.

About a year ago, I for some reason and a reason that I can not remember, I practiced a very few breaks, I scored 3 times in a row. The next morning I scored 4 times in a row. I have not hit any op breaks since.
My racks are consistent for the spots are wore in to freeze the balls, other than that it was uncanny. I do not remember how I hit them.

It is kind of 'ironic', for we do not trust the opponent to rack even though we get to inspect it and get it adjusted to our liking. So now we have rack your own but we still do not trust that for there might be some sly way to rack, so we go through a whole re-rack if a ball is made.

What is everyone so scared of! Players and yes pros do not run much over a couple of balls anyway. Just look at the stats of these challenge matches. They could run more on average but they loose shape. You have one hole to shoot at, once you lost shape, that is it, no matter if you are a pro or not.

I agree, it is ok for short race tournament play, but the stats do not back it up that it is otherwise that critical. No matter what break is used, it is the same for both opponents.

Here is one for you! '68 Official BCA OP rule: in all cases of consecutive games, the loser of the game is the breaker in the next game. Whitey
 
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cincy_kid

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I am surprised that scoring on the break and re-racking has gotten legs, for it happens so seldom. I can see a reason for it in a tournament short race, but otherwise in general play I see no reason for it all. In the 2018 MOT out of all the games played it happened once. In the recent challenge matches race to 24 or a possible 48 games it may of happened once or twice during those matches.

So I guess you can throw it out the window that there is a special way to rack the balls to score.

About a year ago, I for some reason and a reason that I can not remember, I practiced a very few breaks, I scored 3 times in a row. The next morning I scored 4 times in a row. I have not hit any op breaks since.
My racks are consistent for the spots are wore in to freeze the balls, other than that it was uncanny. I do not remember how I hit them.

It is kind of 'ironic', for we do not trust the opponent to rack even though we get to inspect it and get it adjusted to our liking. So now we have rack your own but we still do not trust that for there might be some sly way to rack, so we go through a whole re-rack if a ball is made.

What is everyone so scared of! Players and yes pros do not run much over a couple of balls anyway. Just look at the stats of these challenge matches. They could run more on average but they loose shape. You have one hole to shoot at, once you lost shape, that is it, no matter if you are a pro or not.

I agree, it is ok for short race tournament play, but the stats do not back it up that it is otherwise that critical. No matter what break is used, it is the same for both opponents. Whitey
Unfortunate as it is, in competition (especially gambling) there is always going to people who either cheat or do anything they can to gain an advantage. I feel that rack your own/re-rack is about as fair of a compromise you can do to make it fair for everyone. So I don't think its that everyone is scared but this way at least it should give peace of mind to both players that no funny business is going on, jmo...
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Unfortunate as it is, in competition (especially gambling) there is always going to people who either cheat or do anything they can to gain an advantage. I feel that rack your own/re-rack is about as fair of a compromise you can do to make it fair for everyone. So I don't think its that everyone is scared but this way at least it should give peace of mind to both players that no funny business is going on, jmo...
I am ok with a scored ball is a re-rack.

Make it the standard for OP, I am really ok with this, for whatever break is used it is equal for both players, because the rule is alternate break.

I would like to see our rules go to lag for break only, no coin flip. For this is how 'all' major tournaments decide who breaks, plus it is based upon pool skill. Take the luck out of it!
Another reason to make this distinction; say I am in a tournament that has lag or flip, and I want to lag but the opponent wants to flip. Then what? Why not just make the standard is to lag?

If we can make the standard a ball scored on the break is a re-rack, we then surely can make lag for break a standard! Match up/hustlers will do what they want anyway. Whitey
 
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gulfportdoc

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I think the DCC rules meant to say, "If a ball is made on the break in the breaker's pocket without a foul ...", but that's not what they said.
I agree 100%, Bob. Pocketing a ball in the opponent's pocket on the break is so rare that it likely never occurred to the rules committee to mention it. If a ball is made in the opponent's pocket on the break it counts for the opponent, and he then accepts the balls where they lay (with the exception of BIH/kitchen due to a scratch). The re-rack due to a ball made in the breaker's hole is obviously meant to prevent a huge advantage based upon luck.
 
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