Bert vs. Tony 1. wwyd

tylerdurden

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I once heard buddy hall say when you are rolling your cb with just, as stated, a dead rolling ball, you really should be able to almost pinpoint your cb position. If that adds anything to the conversation I have no clue, but I have always agreed with that.
 

wincardona

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Hackers shot is the best shot providing he can get the movement with the cue ball he needs, past the 9ball to the right. From there he has the positional advantage and no matter what his opponent shoots he figures to develop his position further. However, if Hacker fails to get the cue ball to where he suggested then there will be a battle for the position but I would still have to give the edge to the shooter. (Hacker)

Moving the 1ball away from your opponents side is a huge plus, it opens up doors for you in subsequent innings, like banking balls to your hole and positioning the cue ball to the top right quadrant of the table. Ghost is correct when he says that the spotted 1ball now favors the non shooter along with the 6ball, however, those balls will be easy to defend and possibly even moved to favor the shooter in subsequent shots. What you must acknowledge is that the shooter has moved the 1ball and cleared his opponents side, that will more often be an advantage than a detriment.. not even close imo. If Hacker can get the cue ball to where he says, huge advantage to Hacker.

Sorry Ghost, that's the facts, but first Hacker must perform.

Tony pocketed the 1ball and positioned the cue ball below the side pocket, by doing that he weakened his position. He left a kick to the 5ball off the bottom rail which will get a lot done. It will move the 5ball near the rail further from the pocket, yet still be a blocker for many straight back banks, plus the cue ball will be behind the 2ball, utilizing the 2ball to protect the 1ball and 6ball. Advantage non shooter (Hackers opponent or Tony's opponent)

You must protect the 5ball if you're the shooter, past the 9ball to the right is the ideal position for the cue ball.;)

Dr. Bill
 
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One Pocket Ghost

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Hackers shot is the best shot providing he can get the movement with the cue ball he needs, past the 9ball to the right. From there he has the positional advantage and no matter what his opponent shoots he figures to develop his position further. However, if Hacker fails to get the cue ball to where he suggested then there will be a battle for the position but I would still have to give the edge to the shooter. (Hacker)

Moving the 9ball away from your opponents side is a huge plus, it opens up doors for you in subsequent innings, like banking balls to your hole and positioning the cue ball to the top right quadrant of the table. Ghost is correct when he says that the spotted 1ball now favors the non shooter along with the 6ball, however, those balls will be easy to defend and possibly even moved to favor the shooter in subsequent shots. What you must acknowledge is that the shooter has moved the 1ball and cleared his opponents side, that will more often be an advantage than a detriment.. not even close imo. If Hacker can get the cue ball to where he says, huge advantage to Hacker.

Sorry Ghost, that's the facts, but first Hacker must perform.

Tony pocketed the 1ball and positioned the cue ball below the side pocket, by doing that he weakened his position. He left a kick to the 5ball off the bottom rail which will get a lot done. It will move the 5ball near the rail further from the pocket, yet still be a blocker for many straight back banks, plus the cue ball will be behind the 2ball, utilizing the 2ball to protect the 1ball and 6ball. Advantage non shooter (Hackers opponent or Tony's opponent)

You must protect the 5ball if you're the shooter, past the 9ball to the right is the ideal position for the cue ball.;)

Dr. Bill

Billy...if you're going to analyze the shot choices here, along with what I've said...you've done a disservice to me, and to your own analysis, by not addressing in your above paragraphs, these two important points that I made re. the strength of moving the 1ball up to where I posited, rather than pocketing it ----->

"not pocketing the 1ball, and instead positioning at the down-table edge of the side pocket, where he can't make it because of the scratch, and also where it will block his straight back banks"
 

onepockethacker

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Billy...if you're going to analyze the shot choices here, along with what I've said...you've done a disservice to me, and to your own analysis, by not addressing in your above paragraphs, these two important points that I made re. the strength of moving the 1ball up to where I posited, rather than pocketing it ----->

"not pocketing the 1ball, and instead positioning at the down-table edge of the side pocket, where he can't make it because of the scratch, and also where it will block his straight back banks"

Have a nice day:)
 

LSJohn

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One more try. (Last one, I promise.) :D

If Hacker can get the cue ball to where he says, huge advantage to Hacker.

Do you think you could get CB to a place where the 9 protects the 5 without going far enough that the 9 is a reasonable cut to op's pocket, two-railing CB to the bottom rail safe? The reason I ask, if you're not a strong favorite to do that, I sure have no business shooting it.

Tony pocketed the 1ball and positioned the cue ball below the side pocket, by doing that he weakened his position. He left a kick to the 5ball off the bottom rail which will get a lot done. It will move the 5ball near the rail further from the pocket, yet still be a blocker for many straight back banks, plus the cue ball will be behind the 2ball, utilizing the 2ball to protect the 1ball and 6ball.

When he kicks the 5 off the bottom rail, if he gets a rail I think I'll have a straightback on the 8 to either put CB back by the side pocket or send it long toward the 9, or be able to cross the 6 1 rail into the one and send CB long. I think it's unlikely that a bottom rail kick of the 5 will get him out of trouble. If he hits the kick hard enough to get a rail I think I can see the 6, but definitely have a very playable shot to improve position by banking the 8.
 

One Pocket Ghost

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Do you think you could get CB to a place where the 9 protects the 5 without going far enough that the 9 is a reasonable cut to op's pocket, two-railing CB to the bottom rail safe? The reason I ask, if you're not a strong favorite to do that, I sure have no business shooting it.

When he kicks the 5 off the bottom rail, if he gets a rail I think I'll have a straightback on the 8 to either put CB back by the side pocket or send it long toward the 9, or be able to cross the 6 1 rail into the one and send CB long. I think it's unlikely that a bottom rail kick of the 5 will get him out of trouble. If he hits the kick hard enough to get a rail I think I can see the 6, but definitely have a very playable shot to improve position by banking the 8.

Good analysis John, and a correct one...after yours and Tony's shot, if your opponent kicks the 5..you will very likely have an excellent offensive opportunity in banking the 8 straight back - maybe to pocket it, and maybe to bank it back into the 5.

- Ghost
 

lfigueroa

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lou
i respectfully disagree
its easy for an experienced player to tell when a shot selection is
"pie in the sky" or great from the computer
also
for as long as i have been on the site
since i am not a great player
there have been many players
in no particular order
dr,bill /ghost/androd/frank the barber/john henderson/beatle/tom wirth
in the old days freddie and artie
and yes even robert melrose aka oneockethacker...:eek:...:) (thanks rob)
that have pointed out why my shot choice was less than ideal without making feel like an idiot
THANK YOU GUYS...:)
yes rob has been hard on a few guys but now he is into
HAVE NICE DAY...:)
so i dont think your comment as a generalization is true for the majority of the posters
jmho
icbw
p.s.i dont think i ever see you post a shot selection
or get into a discussion of the strength/weakness of a shot choice
how come?????
inquisitive minds want to know....:D


Pie in the sky.

Too many of those here in the WWYDs. Too many guys dreaming they can hit the ball *perfect.*

Lou Figueroa
 

lfigueroa

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Lou, do you really feel that the wwyd's are a joke? I'm sorry you feel that way, you're really missing out on a great opportunity to improve your game if you truly believe what you posted. :sorry:frus

Dr. Bill



Yes. I absolutely feel that way, Billy.

And no, I'm not missing out on much. I have seen many of the guys here play -- that are shooting like Efren on the WWYDs, or have heard scouting reports, lol.

I'm doing just fine and am improving without the baloney.

Lou Figueroa
 

onepockethacker

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Yes. I absolutely feel that way, Billy.

And no, I'm not missing out on much. I have seen many of the guys here play -- that are shooting like Efren on the WWYDs, or have heard scouting reports, lol.

I'm doing just fine and am improving without the baloney.

Lou Figueroa

If you ever want to find out how much your improving... you got 11 to 7 :heh:heh

have a nice day:)
 
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wincardona

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Good analysis John, and a correct one...after yours and Tony's shot, if your opponent kicks the 5..you will very likely have an excellent offensive opportunity in banking the 8 straight back - maybe to pocket it, and maybe to bank it back into the 5.

- Ghost

Ghost, if you leave the kick into the 5ball you're allowing your opponent to play comfortably. There's a good chance if the 5ball is struck softly on the inside of the ball you'll leave nothing. If the 5ball is hit softly going into the ball you will leave an off angle bank on the 8ball with a suspect cue ball. Plus the 6ball now blocks a shot on the 2ball and 1ball if your opponent happens to make the bank on the 8ball. Playing off the 1ball the shooter is much better off going up table with the cue ball for the reasons the Hacker explained. You're forcing your opponent to play the game you want to play, and that game is to develop a dominant position for your self. Leaving the cue ball down table short of the side you're allowing your opponent to move balls away from your pocket and then on your next shot you will have a low percentage shot if any shot at all with a problematic cue ball.

What would you shoot if the cue ball was up table to the right of the 9ball with the 9ball blocking the 5ball? Now the kick on the 5ball looks pretty good but you're not in a position to do that.

Dr. Bill
 

One Pocket Ghost

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Ghost,

Dr. Bill

Billy...you only just addressed John's shot...you didn't address the post I made to you re. the upsides that are included with my shot choice :rolleyes: ----->


Billy...if you're going to analyze the shot choices here, along with what I've said...you've done a disservice to me, and to your own analysis, by not addressing in your above paragraphs, these two important points that I made re. the strength of moving the 1ball up to where I posited, rather than pocketing it ----->

"not pocketing the 1ball, and instead positioning at the down-table edge of the side pocket, where he can't make it because of the scratch, and also where it will block his straight back banks"
 

onepockethacker

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Billy...you only just addressed John's shot...you didn't address the post I made to you re. the upsides that are included with my shot choice :rolleyes: ----->

Did you ever hear the expression.. the same thing that makes you laugh will make you cry? What you think is a great move is in fact you are trapping yourself

have a nice day:)
 

wincardona

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Billy...you only just addressed John's shot...you didn't address the post I made to you re. the upsides that are included with my shot choice :rolleyes: ----->

First, it's not easy to position the 1ball by the side pocket without leaving the cue ball off the rail. I'm assuming you're cutting the 1ball slightly to your right to hit the rail before the pocket? In doing that if that's your shot you will leave the cue ball off the rail and the kick on the 5ball will be an option along with the 3ball two in the corner, if he chooses to shoot that shot. Leaving the kick on the 5ball is an easy out for your opponent, and like I mentioned he doesn't have to give up any thing with the shot. Yes I understand that the 1ball will not be spotted up and the 2ball and 6ball will be balls that go if the bank on the 8ball is made, if there's a bank at all.

You must look at the 1ball in the pocket with the cue ball up behind the 9ball to give an opinion on the strength of the shot. Even if you allow your opponent to see the 5ball it's not going to be an easy shot for him to control the 5ball and not give up a straight back on either the 13ball or 8ball.

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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First, it's not easy to position the 1ball by the side pocket without leaving the cue ball off the rail. I'm assuming you're cutting the 1ball slightly to your right to hit the rail before the pocket? In doing that if that's your shot you will leave the cue ball off the rail and the kick on the 5ball will be an option along with the 3ball two in the corner, if he chooses to shoot that shot. Leaving the kick on the 5ball is an easy out for your opponent, and like I mentioned he doesn't have to give up any thing with the shot. Yes I understand that the 1ball will not be spotted up and the 2ball and 6ball will be balls that go if the bank on the 8ball is made, if there's a bank at all.

You must look at the 1ball in the pocket with the cue ball up behind the 9ball to give an opinion on the strength of the shot. Even if you allow your opponent to see the 5ball it's not going to be an easy shot for him to control the 5ball and not give up a straight back on either the 13ball or 8ball.

Dr. Bill

I like cutting the 6ball to block the 5ball and send the cue ball to the top rail as my second choice. That shot is a fairly strong shot that's easy to execute, plus you're taking a good ball away from your opponent and placing it on your side. Now your opponent will be challenged to execute a good shot with out leaving you the first good move. Take a fair look at that option and give an opinion.

Dr. Bill
 

One Pocket Ghost

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First, it's not easy to position the 1ball by the side pocket without leaving the cue ball off the rail. I'm assuming you're cutting the 1ball slightly to your right to hit the rail before the pocket? In doing that if that's your shot you will leave the cue ball off the rail and the kick on the 5ball will be an option along with the 3ball two in the corner, if he chooses to shoot that shot. Leaving the kick on the 5ball is an easy out for your opponent, and like I mentioned he doesn't have to give up any thing with the shot. Yes I understand that the 1ball will not be spotted up and the 2ball and 6ball will be balls that go if the bank on the 8ball is made, if there's a bank at all.

You must look at the 1ball in the pocket with the cue ball up behind the 9ball to give an opinion on the strength of the shot. Even if you allow your opponent to see the 5ball it's not going to be an easy shot for him to control the 5ball and not give up a straight back on either the 13ball or 8ball.

Dr. Bill


Since you like Rob's shot better..and since I believe, as many others on here also do - that the landing area is too small for Rob's choice to be hands down the best choice here...

Well ok then, here you go - I'll put my money where my mouth is again...at the DCC Rob can shoot his shot, and maybe you want to stake him :)...

Every time he pockets the 1 and leaves me where I'm not able to cut the 9 in, or see the 5ball - I'll pay off --- every time I am able to cut the 9 in, or see the 5ball - you pay off...do we have action?...:)

- The prop-betting Ghost

PS, And I like my end so much in this prop bet, that I'm letting him shoot the same shot over and over to get his speed down - something he wouldn't have been able to do in a real game where you only get one try...:cool:
 

onepockethacker

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Since you like Rob's shot better..and since I believe, as many others on here also do - that the landing area is too small for Rob's choice to be hands down the best choice here...

Well ok then, here you go - I'll put my money where my mouth is again...at the DCC Rob can shoot his shot, and maybe you want to stake him :)...

Every time he pockets the 1 and leaves me where I'm not able to cut the 9 in, or see the 5ball - I'll pay off --- every time I am able to cut the 9 in, or see the 5ball - you pay off...do we have action?...:)

- The prop-betting Ghost

PS, And I like my end so much in this prop bet, that I'm letting him shoot the same shot over and over to get his speed down - something he wouldn't have been able to do in a real game where you only get one try...:cool:

What you obviously don't grasp Ghost and understand besides one pocket in general is... if you hit your shot perfect you have accomplished basically nothing.. if I hit my shot perfect it accomplishes everything.. Billy is trying to educate you.


Have a nice day:)
 
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onepockethacker

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Let me add something here. Some of you guys are saying that you don't like shooting the 1 ball in and rolling behind the 9 ball because the margin for error isn't big enough for you guys to comfortable with... WELL WELCOME TO LIFE... the majority of you guys aren't going to be playing top players gambling but what if this was a tournament match? do you think nudging the 1 ball is going to get it done against a Chohan or Frost etc.. what is your plan to wait around until they give you easy/ free shots at your hole? GOOD LUCK WITH THAT.. The reason guys like them win a majority of their matches is because people are afraid to attempt the RIGHT SHOT that which although harder pays big dividends if successful and instead go for the shot "THEY ARE COMFORTABLE WITH".. which accomplishes nothing.. are you trying to put in a good showing or are you trying to win? You see if you were playing guys like Chohan and Frost and you chose Ghosts option.. they would say to themselves " wow the guys had me in trouble and let me off the hook looks like another picnic match for me"... however if you shoot the shot I suggested and you don't hit it dead perfect they will be saying " Im surprised the guy knew to try and do that" instantly it will tighten them up.. now if you execute the shot well they will be saying " what the fucck is this shiit" Now then if you don't feel comfortable with the shot im suggesting I do understand because you probably don't shoot alot of demanding shots.. but you should practice this shot because all variations of this shot will come up during games and rolling your cue ball to certain spots on the table can put your opponent in a death trap.. Its not all about what ball can I make right now.. its about what shot can I do that will put me in the best position to win the game..

have a nice day:)
 

wincardona

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Since you like Rob's shot better..and since I believe, as many others on here also do - that the landing area is too small for Rob's choice to be hands down the best choice here...

Well ok then, here you go - I'll put my money where my mouth is again...at the DCC Rob can shoot his shot, and maybe you want to stake him :)...

Every time he pockets the 1 and leaves me where I'm not able to cut the 9 in, or see the 5ball - I'll pay off --- every time I am able to cut the 9 in, or see the 5ball - you pay off...do we have action?...:)

- The prop-betting Ghost

PS, And I like my end so much in this prop bet, that I'm letting him shoot the same shot over and over to get his speed down - something he wouldn't have been able to do in a real game where you only get one try...:cool:
Your starting to sound silly Ghost, this debate isn't about whether or not you can lay the cue ball down in a 12" area, it's about protecting your position and developing it to get the first good shot and win the game. Hackers shot is the type of shot that lends to keeping you in control of the game along with applying pressure. This game isn't going to be won on the next shot but the next shot will be of significant importance in setting the tone for the remainder of the game. There is a lot of play left in this game, the shooter has the dominant position and should try to choose an option that will protect it and develop it further. Imo playing the cue ball to go to the other end of the table by choosing Hackers shot will apply pressure on his opponent and force him to come with a good shot to survive. I'm talking about removing the 5ball from a distance that will be difficult to control both the 5ball and cue ball and if Hacker is successful in dropping behind the 9ball on his opening shot then it's going to get ugly for you if your his opponent.

Another shot that protects the position and is easy to execute is thinning off the 6ball and dropping to the top rail using the 6ball to cover the 5ball. This shot also dictates what his opponent will do and as you can see there's nothing easy for him to do because most of his options with a return shot will carry distance. I like this option as my second choice and this option should be a popular one because it's easy to execute and also removes a ball that is positioned in favor of your opponent (6ball) and puts him in a defending position with no chance of reversing it.

The key to both shots (Hackers shot and thinning the 6ball) is that you are going up table with the cue ball and forcing your opponent to come with a challenging shot. Also, if your opponent doesn't want to choose a challenging shot he probably will do something too conservative as his answer to your shot that will open the door for more problems ahead..for him.

Dr. Bill
 
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