B. Hall vs. E. Reyes 2005 D.C.C.

[Cowboy Dennis]

I guess I have a vivid imagination, Dennis. You do too if you think getting past the point of the side pocket is difficult. And to imagine your chances of freezing on the six so tight as to prevent Efren from seeing the three ball requires drugs.

Dennis, the shot I have described is a staple shot in One Pocket. You've been around the block enough to know that. Don't play dumb.

Tom

Tom,

First of all, the six will hit the one and come off the headrail in front of the cueball if I execute properly. If it doesn't and I leave a shot at the 3 ball, then yes, I do think it's a tough enough shot to make us rethink it. This is the only pic available from this match of this layout and we all see things differently. I think the 3 is close enough to the siderail to cause a problem for the cueball on a return shot. Passing this shot up when it's deemed dangerous is also a "staple shot" in one-pocket.

P.S. I'm not playing

Dennis

 

[NH Steve]

Image is photoshop'd!

Image is photoshop'd!

I don't mind Effie shooting from here -- I definitely expect to get back to the table. If Efren moves the three and doesn't end up laying just right, I can see where there might be something for Hall to shoot next.

I photoshop'd the cue ball up to where it would highly likely end after a soft kick (assuming the route is available of course).

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

I will be the first to recant my little jibe. :sorry Just force of habit.

Beard

Freddy,

I appreciate that, I truly do, but since SJD's post and my reply to both of you have been deleted but yours remains I'll just have to say "see you later". You have my e-mail if you ever want to correspond.

Dennis

 

[androd]

I guess I have a vivid imagination, Dennis. You do too if you think getting past the point of the side pocket is difficult. And to imagine your chances of freezing on the six so tight as to prevent Efren from seeing the three ball requires drugs.

Dennis, the shot I have described is a staple shot in One Pocket. You've been around the block enough to know that. Don't play dumb.

Tom

Sorry Tom, I don't think your shot is any good either.
Rod.

 

[Tom Wirth]

Sorry Tom, I don't think your shot is any good either.
Rod.

Rod, which shot do you mean? My shot is to either bank the three straight back with speed with the intention of making it and playing position or playing the passive shot of banking the spotted ball across to Buddy's side of the table leaving the cue ball near the top rail.

The other shot of crossing over the three and leaving the cue ball below the two is only in response to Fred's shot.

Which are you referring to?

Tom

 

[androd]

Rod, which shot do you mean? My shot is to either bank the three straight back with speed with the intention of making it and playing position or playing the passive shot of banking the spotted ball across to Buddy's side of the table leaving the cue ball near the top rail.

The other shot of crossing over the three and leaving the cue ball below the two is only in response to Fred's shot.

Which are you referring to?

Tom

Moving the ball(s) on the spot..

 

[jtompilot]

I know I'm not moving the spoted balls, they are in play. All that is needed is a good spot for the QB.

I'm leaning towards Fredy's shot.

 

[Tom Wirth]

I've been voted down.

OK, Be that way!

Tom

 

[NH Steve]

I don't mind Effie shooting from here -- I definitely expect to get back to the table. If Efren moves the three and doesn't end up laying just right, I can see where there might be something for Hall to shoot next.

I photoshop'd the cue ball up to where it would highly likely end after a soft kick (assuming the route is available of course).

With my internet down for an hour tonight I set this up on my own table (after a soft kick to the 6-ball) and it seems to me that Efren crossing the 3 over and drifting the cue ball down to the foot rail, is a natural scratch to Hall's pocket. For Efren to play that 3 across it looks like he has to work to avoid that scratch.

PS I also tried the Ghost's three rail shot and found it worked very well. I never kissed with simple 'lazy' draw and no english -- just enough draw to send the cue ball across the table below that stripe next to the 3. When I put outside (right) english I kissed every time, of course the Ghost probably already knew that

 

[Tom Wirth]

Steve, I too played that shot off the three and had no problem with it. In addition the trap was strong when I was able to get the cue ball close to the bottom rail which was most of the time. The three also was hidden, sometimes by the two, sometimes by the two spotted balls.

I also played the three rail shot and had no problem with that shot either. The cue ball worked very much like you described. This was an effective shot and I suffered no kiss with any of my attempts. I never made the ball but sometimes the three struck the spotted balls and now I had a crowd working.

I also played the straight back on the three two ways. The first was to hit it with speed and a touch of English to bring it back in an attempt to make the shot. Not easy but it is makeable. However if the shot doesn't go it typically went back up table. When this happened I felt I had sacrificed an opportunity to do something more effective.

The other way I played it is by the lagging the three with pocket speed. This shot worked ok but I wasn't able to get the ball very close very often. I had a tendency to over cut the ball trying to be certain not to shoot it into the upper corner pocket. The cue ball played reasonably well to the top rail each time and at least I got the ball in my zone of fear so I believe this shot isn't as bad as I had originally thought.

So I guess it is just a matter of what floats your boat. But I still am dead set against the side rail kick into the six. Even if you lay the cue ball on top of the pair of balls up there the replies are numerous though a little more difficult perhaps.

One last thing and I'm done with it. For those who did not like the shot I envisioned, that being coming off the ball on the spot and rolling the cue ball up to the top rail while bringing the OB across to Buddy's side of the table, what would be your response? You have in one of the earlier posts an illustration of this shot. Take a look at it and explain to me how this shot does not present problems for Efren.

I have enjoyed the banter. I find it stimulating, healthy for our One Pocket games, and a lot of fun.

Tom

 

[wincardona]

I have read through this thread and there have been some excellent points made about all the options, however, I would only choose an option that would apply pressure on Reyes. Playing off of any other ball other than the 3ball or spotted ball is only allowing Reyes to play comfortably. I also agree with Tom on all the problems with soft kicking the 6ball, he envisioned it perfectly.

We can all play from our computer and position the balls the way we would like it to come out (as Steve did) and say that "this isn't too bad a spot" ok sure but getting there is another subject. Even if you do get where Steve drew it up he leaves Reyes the exact shot that Tom described 'off the 3ball' drifting naturally to the rail at the bottom. From anywhere down there Buddy is in worse shape then he was before shooting the kick. :frus That certainly should eliminate the kick option on the 6ball.

I agree with Freddie when he says that "opening up the spotted balls helps Reyes" However, it also helps Buddy. Plus the angle offered for that option looks like it sends the cue ball toward the 14ball making this option difficult to control the cue ball off of. However, if struck well you will apply plenty of pressure on Reyes. Reyes will be hard pressed to walk away from the table with out giving up a good return shot. Well...I like this option over the 6ball because it applies pressure by forcing your opponent to work harder, plus you're developing a stronger position.

Banking the 3ball one rail is not a tough shot to execute, in terms of accuracy and speed. The shot is played not to make the bank but to lay it close to the bottom rail..behind the 2ball. The cue ball should be hit with "two tips" right english, which will send the cue ball toward the 14ball, taking away the cross corner scratch possibility. I would try to execute the shot so the cue ball hits safely to the left of the 14ball and then softly toward it. Iknow it's a tough shot, however, you're margin for error is large. o With the correct speed both the cue ball and the 3ball should end up where intended providing you hit the shot well. By ending up with the cue ball around the area where the 14ball sits the 2ball and 13ball should cover the 3ball and take away all soft kicks into the 3ball off the side rail. From that position Reyes will be in deep trouble.

The three rail 3ball shot is too tough for me to call because it will basically do similar things that the one rail bank will do but to me the cue ball is tough for me to control. Maybe for some who have the confidence and skill to control the cue ball this option is very viable (which I agree) but imo for the masses it's a pass. However, if you have this shot in your arsenal it's clearly a good option.

Sorry if I offended anyone that's not my purpose. Ego's around here are pretty large (including mine) just trying to call it like I see it.

Dr. Bill

 

[Cory in dc]

Well, this has been contentious, but it's been even more interesting and informative. What did Buddy actually do?

I'll put my nickel on banking the 3, running 4 more, and then hanging the 14.

 

[NH Steve]

Well, this has been contentious, but it's been even more interesting and informative. What did Buddy actually do?

I'll put my nickel on banking the 3, running 4 more, and then hanging the 14.

Compared to many WWYD's over the years, this one is not as contentious as many, and much more interesting than most. This also illustrates what is so great about the game of One Pocket -- that there is so much to think about, and different pluses and minus in different ways for a variety of shots. I know I always leave a good One Pocket session -- win or lose -- feeling like I really gave my pool mind a workout, and that is simply not true about other games -- at least the "always" part

 

[onepockethacker]

Tom your shot was the best option BY FAR!! Billy pointed out the exact key of the shot.. opening the balls helps Efren BUT IT HELPS BUDDY ALSO AND HE IS DOWN 7 TO 0!! Tom you know the game very well and I know Billy knows the game EXTREMELY well. For all the members in the thread who want to lose the game but maybe have a more respectable score shoot go ahead and shoot any of other shots suggested. HOWEVER if you want a chance to actually win the game shoot Toms shot. Like chess you have to be able to see 4 moves ahead and everyone but Tom and Billy(partially but he also said he liked the 3 railer) is looking 1 move ahead... That isnt going to cut it against Reyes. :sorry
P.S. The guys saying that Reyes would scratch trying to cross the 3 ball over to his side from the cueball position by the 6 ball crack me up. LMFAO. Its a routine safe for the best player ever!! LOL Even if Reyes banks the 2 ball uptable and drops the cueball to the end rail you wouldn't haven't accomplished jack shit with laying on the 6 ball.

 

[fred bentivegna]

Tom your shot was the best option BY FAR!! Billy pointed out the exact key of the shot.. opening the balls helps Efren BUT IT HELPS BUDDY ALSO AND HE IS DOWN 7 TO 0!! Tom you know the game very well and I know Billy knows the game EXTREMELY well. For all the members in the thread who want to lose the game but maybe have a more respectable score shoot go ahead and shoot any of other shots suggested. HOWEVER if you want a chance to actually win the game shoot Toms shot. Like chess you have to be able to see 4 moves ahead and everyone but Tom and Billy(partially but he also said he liked the 3 railer) is looking 1 move ahead... That isnt going to cut it against Reyes. :sorry
P.S. The guys saying that Reyes would scratch trying to cross the 3 ball over to his side from the cueball position by the 6 ball crack me up. LMFAO. Its a routine safe for the best player ever!! LOL Even if Reyes banks the 2 ball uptable and drops the cueball to the end rail you wouldn't haven't accomplished jack shit with laying on the 6 ball.

I just spent 20 minutes on a response and when I tried to submit it, the site kicked off on me and I lost it! No way I am going to try and do it all over again.

However, possibly the worst insult I have ever had on this site is the Hacker inferring that I am only thinking 1 move ahead! With the obvious comprehensiveness that I include in every suggestion I make,"I do this, then he does that, and if he does this, I do that," where on earth can anyone make a stretch that I am thinking shortsightedly?! As far as I know I don't see anyone else reasoning out their comments as thoroughly as I have.

Beard

 

[onepockethacker]

I just spent 20 minutes on a response and when I tried to submit it, the site kicked off on me and I lost it! No way I am going to try and do it all over again.

However, possibly the worst insult I have ever had on this site is the Hacker inferring that I am only thinking 1 move ahead! With the obvious comprehensiveness that I include in every suggestion I make,"I do this, then he does that, and if he does this, I do that," where on earth can anyone make a stretch that I am thinking shortsightedly?! As far as I know I don't see anyone else reasoning out their comments as thoroughly as I have.

Beard

LOL calm down Freddy.. worst insult ever? come on LMFAO By the way leaving Efren straight in on the 3 ball and hoping he misses? that is a helluva strategy LOL By the way I do see your points and i understand you have a philosophy about the 2 spotted balls. In this case though I think it would do more good opening up and putting Efren up table in the long run

By the way when you type long posts on here and hit the submit button just log back in and your post will be posted

 

[fred bentivegna]

LOL calm down Freddy.. worst insult ever? come on LMFAO By the way leaving Efren straight in on the 3 ball and hoping he misses? that is a helluva strategy LOL By the way I do see your points and i understand you have a philosophy about the 2 spotted balls. In this case though I think it would do more good opening up and putting Efren up table in the long run

By the way when you type long posts on here and hit the submit button just log back in and your post will be posted

I tried that and logged back in, but the train had left.

Beard

 

[wincardona]

I just spent 20 minutes on a response and when I tried to submit it, the site kicked off on me and I lost it! No way I am going to try and do it all over again.

However, possibly the worst insult I have ever had on this site is the Hacker inferring that I am only thinking 1 move ahead! With the obvious comprehensiveness that I include in every suggestion I make,"I do this, then he does that, and if he does this, I do that," where on earth can anyone make a stretch that I am thinking shortsightedly?! As far as I know I don't see anyone else reasoning out their comments as thoroughly as I have.

Beard

Freddie, your reasoning for doing and not doing certain things are profound and note worthy, however, what you're not accepting is that to do some of the things that you say will happen (going through the process of moving) is not reasonable and therefore not applicable.:sorry For instance ..you say that after you choose the soft kick onto the 6ball your response to Tom's response of playing off the 3ball and drifting down table will afford you a two rail option with the 6ball that will also leave the cue ball in a compromised position is absurd Your advice is sound but doesn't apply to the situation imo. Yes, choosing options that allow you to accumulate balls for the purpose of scoring them later is great advice providing that the option allows you to do that. However, in this instance your option affords your opponent to either play off the 3ball and position it on his side, or even play off the 2ball and cross it back up table toward the 3ball.:sorry For these reasons your option doesn't support your advice with the principle of the Marcel Camp "pass shot" It simply doesn't do the job. You asked for a reasonable response to the effectiveness or ineffectiveness with the option you chose, Tom gave you one and you refuse to accept it. That to me puts your high IQ into question :sorry

Toms option with playing off the 7ball and opening up the spotted balls has limited potential as well because of the problems with controlling the cue ball. The cue ball will be going in the direction of the 14ball, and if it stops short of the rail (for any reason) he will offer Reyes the ability to either 'cross bank' the 2ball toward the 3ball or power bank the 15ball into the 2ball and move both balls. However, if he can rest the cue ball near the top rail then and only then is his option a good one.:sorry

This brings us to the 3ball banking option. This option leaves the cue ball in a position to create problems for your opponent not only in terms of getting away from the possible trap that could result with the shot but also by not affording him to weaken or ..move balls away from your superior position..which will keep the pressure on him. The one rail 3ball bank option is not only an option that could pay quick dividends, it also allows you to invest in the future to collect your dividends at a later time. This is what makes this option imo the best option.

Carry on. By the way...GOOD MORNING

Dr. Bill

 

[NH Steve]

I just spent 20 minutes on a response and when I tried to submit it, the site kicked off on me and I lost it! No way I am going to try and do it all over again.

However, possibly the worst insult I have ever had on this site is the Hacker inferring that I am only thinking 1 move ahead! With the obvious comprehensiveness that I include in every suggestion I make,"I do this, then he does that, and if he does this, I do that," where on earth can anyone make a stretch that I am thinking shortsightedly?! As far as I know I don't see anyone else reasoning out their comments as thoroughly as I have.

Beard

I agree -- the whole point of kicking lightly at the 6 ball is thinking ahead -- obviously it is not intended to turn the game around right then. It is intended to buy time and keep the balls in play for a future turn at the table. I notice no one is suggesting that Efren will simply knock the 3 or anything else out of play...

PS, if Efren moves the three ball he also opens up the bank lane for two other balls, which could come into play a shot or two down the road -- not that I am thinking ahead or anything

 

[wincardona]

I agree -- the whole point of kicking lightly at the 6 ball is thinking ahead -- obviously it is not intended to turn the game around right then. It is intended to buy time and keep the balls in play for a future turn at the table. I notice no one is suggesting that Efren will simply knock the 3 or anything else out of play...

PS, if Efren moves the three ball he also opens up the bank lane for two other balls, which could come into play a shot or two down the road -- not that I am thinking ahead or anything

You're correct you are thinking ahead and that's a good thing (usually) However, in this instance by thinking "too far" ahead is your down fall imo. You say that by Reyes moving the 3ball it opens up lanes for subsequent banks but what you and Fred haven't addressed is ...WHAT DO YOU DO AFTER REYES PLAYS OFF THE 3BALL ?????

One of the beauties in playing one pocket is that ..despite the apparent strong advantage a position may suggest, it at times takes only one simple shot by your opponent to negate the strength of the position and force you to change gears. :frus I believe that the simple shot that Tom alluded to with Reyes playing off the 3ball applies to that exact scenario. :sorry

Now that's a horse of a different color.:heh

Dr. Bill