At Hard Times: One pocket

BRLongArm

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Feb 19, 2006
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Making a ball on the break and scratching happens many times when a player is actually trying to make a ball on the break!

It's that fine line between the front and 2nd ball that causes the OB to be made and that, slightest kiss on the 2nd that causes the CB to scratch.

I'd take that, 1,000-1 and would go for 500-1 on the onions!
low inside and catch more of the second ball and you'll scratch and make the wing ball way more often than 500-1. Like you said, if you are trying, it happens a lot.
 

mr3cushion

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Sep 17, 2008
Messages
7,610
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Cocoa Beach, FL
low inside and catch more of the second ball and you'll scratch and make the wing ball way more often than 500-1. Like you said, if you are trying, it happens a lot.
The Semi to Top players from the 20th Century knew techniques they figured out themselves, after much trial & error! This is why we were so guarded about sharing such cherished info! Even though I decided myself to come clean about the Real game of 3C, I'm not sure I would do it again before I did. Most of the Top players of the 21st, 'Young Guns' want their game to be robotically repetitive. With this mindset, a player can quickly loose the, 'Natural feeling' for the game. This is what separates guys like, Tony, Dennis, Efren for sure, Cliff, Alex. JMPO.

BTW, I watched a highly ranked US female player yesterday that was so enveloped in Her, 'robotic routine' she forgot to play position with the correct speed in almost every rack.
 
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LSJohn

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Aug 15, 2013
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monett missouri
There are endless reasons to argue about something in OP....you can't stop argumentative people from arguing. Ignore the crybabies.
Darrell, my friend, I can't tell whether this is self-deprecating humor, or world class lack of self-awareness.

You gotta be laughing at yourself, right?
 

darmoose

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Baltimore, MD
Darrell, my friend, I can't tell whether this is self-deprecating humor, or world class lack of self-awareness.

You gotta be laughing at yourself, right?

John,

Ha-ha....my friend, the innuendoligist.......le'me help you. "Ignore the crybabies" is what matters. Crybabies for me are those who take positions that are irrational and only for their own short sided and selfish reasons. Kinda like in our politics, which we can't discuss here, peoples egos or desire to be relevant lead them to be unable to admit being wrong when the truth is all around them and obvious.

In this context it is the chain of events that led us to the rules adopted in this tournament, which are not so important in the scheme of things, but illustrate a dangerous phenomena that can lead us all down the wrong path.

It goes or went like this....."I don't like the way you racked for me", "I'll rack my own", "I don't like how you racked for yourself...if you make a ball, you'll have to rack again". "Oh yeah, well then if I make a ball my scratches don't count cause that would penalize me twice".... :rolleyes: ..I can't imagine where they think the FIRST penalty came from.

So, where has this gotten us? We can no longer make a ball on the break and continue shooting, which I happen to like, but couldn't we have gotten there by just adopting a rule that says "you break and sit down" in the first place without forgiving scratching on the break. I call the proponents of all this "crybabies" because there is NO advantage to be had by either player in this whole discussion. The argument from start to finish is MOOT, solves no problem, and does not improve the game, but has changed it....

If you want to hear about a rule change that does solve a problem and could improve the game just ask.....:)
 
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LSJohn

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monett missouri
"... just ask"
LOL, I've been looking for someone to tell me the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, but everyone keeps telling me that I can't STAND the truth. :eek:
couldn't we have gotten there by just adopting a rule that says "you break and sit down"
Exactly the solution I have supported since the first time it crossed my radar screen. I had a really frustrating discussion about this possibility with one of the top 20 pros. After explaining it twice, he said "Nah, I don't want to face someone breaking and running out on me." Doh! I guess he couldn't get his mind off of the 4$$ of that waitress he was watching.

I can see the merit in the simplicity of Joe's solution (yours is just as simple) and his concern about resistance to another change now that this one has finally been adopted in so many places.
 

catkins

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Nov 1, 2016
Messages
1,661
From
boulder creek ca
John,

Ha-ha....my friend, the innuendoligist.......le'me help you. "Ignore the crybabies" is what matters. Crybabies for me are those who take positions that are irrational and only for their own short sided and selfish reasons. Kinda like in our politics, which we can't discuss here, peoples egos or desire to be relevant lead them to be unable to admit being wrong when the truth is all around them and obvious.

In this context it is the chain of events that led us to the rules adopted in this tournament, which are not so important in the scheme of things, but illustrate a dangerous phenomena that can lead us all down the wrong path.

It goes or went like this....."I don't like the way you racked for me", "I'll rack my own", "I don't like how you racked for yourself...if you make a ball, you'll have to rack again". "Oh yeah, well then if I make a ball my scratches don't count cause that would penalize me twice".... :rolleyes: ..I can't imagine where they think the FIRST penalty came from.

So, where has this gotten us? We can no longer make a ball on the break and continue shooting, which I happen to like, but couldn't we have gotten there by just adopting a rule that says "you break and sit down" in the first place without forgiving scratching on the break. I call the proponents of all this "crybabies" because there is NO advantage to be had by either player in this whole discussion. The argument from start to finish is MOOT, solves no problem, and does not improve the game, but has changed it....

If you want to hear about a rule change that does solve a problem and could improve the game just ask.....:)
my fundemenal on this is if a ball is made in shooters pocket on te break than break is invalid under the rules of ball on the break is invalid. does not matter other than that. rerack
 

unoperro

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Feb 25, 2012
Messages
2,249
my fundemenal on this is if a ball is made in shooters pocket on te break than break is invalid under the rules of ball on the break is invalid. does not matter other than that. rerack
KISS doesn't have a C in it for Caveat .😁😉
 

baby huey

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Oct 29, 2008
Messages
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When the balls are super clean, you are almost never going to make a ball on the break. It's too hard to freeze them up. Nice dirty balls played on all day..........now we're talking balls on the break.
 

Jeff sparks

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Joined
Apr 2, 2015
Messages
3,254
From
Houston, Texas
Joe, I really wish that you and Greg could have picked a different date for this event. Yes, they are 1,930 miles apart, but the Seniors
one pocket tournament is a very popular venue attended by and watched by many of our longtime members.
With all the past rhetoric about scheduling tournaments on top of each other, here we go again.

One pocket's popularity is growing faster than ever. I am disappointed that I will not be able to watch the stream of this tournament, as I try to
watch as much as I can.

Bogies' owners and management have contributed greatly to the one pocket scene so many years in the past, they really deserve
our loyalty and patronage. PoolActionTV will be streaming with expert commentary.

As Forrest Gump would say, "That's all I got to say about that."
Sorry for the brief highjack….
Robert, please give me a call at 713-302-5801. If you don’t mind, I’ve got a question you can help me with…
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Jul 8, 2017
Messages
3,618
From
Klamath Falls, Or.
Thanks to Greg and Joe for promoting this fine event, and for including the west coast along with their other promotions, it is so needed!
Just simply outstanding!

One thing I would suggest; is to change the title of this thread, for like I, I just past over it, for I thought it was just another regular OP monthly event, or past event, or something like that, of which it is not!

I, for the first time looked at this thread and was surprised that it turned to talking about the break.
The main reason, IMO, for a re-rack when a ball is made on the break, is because it is such a short race.
Now, when accompanied by a scratch the OP.org members overwhelmingly prefer the scratch be recognize.
Last year DCC went to recognizing the scratch and played it by standard rules, but I believe the players not knowing (not attending the player's meeting and not reading the new OP rules) that DCC went to this were then very much confused, so they went back to a re-rack no matter what for this coming year. Pure speculation on my part.
I could easily debate why a scratch should be played BIH-BTL vs. a re-rack no matter what, but not on this thread.
Now, break and sit, the problem with this, and it is hard to swallow, is when you make a ball but then sell out to the opponent's hole, then how do you like this rule.

There is so many stickies on the main forum that it does not take long for a thread to be on the back pages, and I wanted to post to bring it back into the forefront, and this is the main reason for me posting, for I am really not adding much.
thanks again, for promoting this for us west coast players!
Whitey
 
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Scrzbill

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Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
4,374
From
Eagles Rest, Wa
Joe,

I respect all you do for OP. I also understand the reason for reracking if a ball falls in playing rack your own. But if your above post is supposed to serve as a "reasoned" explanation for reracking after a breaker makes a ball and scratches and why it's good for the game, I personally think it falls very short.

I don't see how forgiving a scratch because a ball fell in stops any kind of manipulation of the rack, or any arguing about anything. It just unnecessarily forgives the scratch in this one unique situation for no good reason. Part of the game is to avoid scratching whether it is on the break or at any other time in the game.

It may very well be that if mechanics have learned how to make a ball on the break or just get a better break by manipulating the rack, they may knowingly subject themselves to an increased risk of scratching in doing so.....and therefore should pay the penalty for doing so.

But, you carry on as you please...I just think it is not a good thing to be forgiving scratches under any circumstance and still don't see the reason for doing that, sorry.
You complained about this three times. Typical.
 

Scrzbill

Verified Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
4,374
From
Eagles Rest, Wa
Joe, I really wish that you and Greg could have picked a different date for this event. Yes, they are 1,930 miles apart, but the Seniors
one pocket tournament is a very popular venue attended by and watched by many of our longtime members.
With all the past rhetoric about scheduling tournaments on top of each other, here we go again.

One pocket's popularity is growing faster than ever. I am disappointed that I will not be able to watch the stream of this tournament, as I try to
watch as much as I can.

Bogies' owners and management have contributed greatly to the one pocket scene so many years in the past, they really deserve
our loyalty and patronage. PoolActionTV will be streaming with expert commentary.

As Forrest Gump would say, "That's all I got to say about that."
The senior event is a closed event with a PPV venue. I would rather watch an open event with a free stream.
 

BRLongArm

Verified Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2006
Messages
1,480
Thanks to Greg and Joe for promoting this fine event, and for including the west coast along with their other promotions, it is so needed!
Just simply outstanding!

One thing I would suggest; is to change the title of this thread, for like I, I just past over it, for I thought it was just another regular OP monthly event, or past event, or something like that, of which it is not!

I, for the first time looked at this thread and was surprised that it turned to talking about the break.
The main reason, IMO, for a re-rack when a ball is made on the break, is because it is such a short race.
Now, when accompanied by a scratch the OP.org members overwhelmingly prefer the scratch be recognize.
Last year DCC went to recognizing the scratch and played it by standard rules, but I believe the players not knowing (not attending the player's meeting and not reading the new OP rules) that DCC went to this were then very much confused, so they went back to a re-rack no matter what for this coming year. Pure speculation on my part.
I could easily debate why a scratch should be played BIH-BTL vs. a re-rack no matter what, but not on this thread.
Now, break and sit, the problem with this, and it is hard to swallow, is when you make a ball but then sell out to the opponent's hole, then how do you like this rule.

There is so many stickies on the main forum that it does not take long for a thread to be on the back pages, and I wanted to post to bring it back into the forefront, and this is the main reason for me posting, for I am really not adding much.
thanks again, for promoting this for us west coast players!
Whitey
We hope to see you at Hard Times. This event is specifically for the West Coast guys who get left out of many of the events in the rest of the country. We have the right room owner, and he is hoping for 80 players. It's all One pocket, too. No bar table nine ball like usual. And the stream is free to the world, like it should be.

Joe
 

jrhendy

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Joined
May 24, 2004
Messages
5,496
From
Placerville, CA
You will be amazed at what Collins has done with the streaming at Hard Times. Last time I was there, I was wondering wa kind of cue a player was using on a table that was the farthest from the booth. He zoomed in on it and I could there was a Mezz logo on the buttpiece.
 

Scrzbill

Verified Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
4,374
From
Eagles Rest, Wa
We hope to see you at Hard Times. This event is specifically for the West Coast guys who get left out of many of the events in the rest of the country. We have the right room owner, and he is hoping for 80 players. It's all One pocket, too. No bar table nine ball like usual. And the stream is free to the world, like it should be.

Joe
I know of a good team of announcers who are from the Best Coast. One is a OPOrg HOFer.
 

darmoose

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Joined
May 16, 2012
Messages
2,378
From
Baltimore, MD
You complained about this three times. Typical.
You gotta be kidding......that's your contribution to the discussion........you, the biggest complainer on this forum....sounds like your struggling for relevance from nowhere land... :LOL: :ROFLMAO: ....GFY....
 
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