Another WWYD

onepockethacker

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I like Hendys option of making the 4 and clear out pocket . What's wrong with that. The 11 will be gone and its 5 to 0. What am I missing?
Todd

Billy I. just answered in post #40 why the 11 ball is the correct shot. Let me expand. The 4 ball is your ball period, he isn't taking it out so you are going to get that ball whether he makes it or you do. If you make the 4 ball just to break up to 2 ball cluster all you have done is open up the 2 balls because the 4 was yours anyways. After you and John want to bank the 10 ball into the 3 BALLS by your opponents pocket clearing the ENTIRE pocket... REALLY? Its that easy? I wish i could just fire a bank into a 3 ball cluster and be sure one of those balls isn't going to come cross table to my side for an easy bank for your opponent. Once you 2 rail the 11 ball as Billy said now your opponent has to guard against leaving you the 4 OR the easy 6 ball bank.. Really hard to guard against both.
I always say play the score and yeah when you can get up 4 to 0 and send balls up table that "usually" what you want to do. HOWEVER when the balls favor you and a shot like the 2 railer on the 11 ball comes up and it is going to TOTALLY put you in a huge table advantage you shoot it
 

Mkbtank

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Another WWYD

I'm not sure I'm following. Again. I considered the two railer. My issue with it was that I would definitely break up the two balls by his hole that didn't go. So, if I banked that ball , even if I break up the two tied up balls on my side, is it worth it if I leave him sitting on a shot with 2-3 balls still near his hole and now free ?


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onepockethacker

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I'm not sure I'm following. Again. I considered the two railer. My issue with it was that I would definitely break up the two balls by his hole that didn't go. So, if I banked that ball , even if I break up the two tied up balls on my side, is it worth it if I leave him sitting on a shot with 2-3 balls still near his hole and now free ?


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You are not going to touch the 2 balls(12 and 6) by his pocket. You are going to be shooting almost straight at the 11 ball with bottom left english. The left english is going to throw the 11 ball to the right bringing it toward the 2 balls clustered by your pocket. Once you do that you have 1. taken away the 11 ball from his hole. 2. opened up the 6 ball bank for you a ball which still doesn't go for him. The keys are getting the 11 ball out of there to your side which opens up the 6 ball bank for you and hiding the cueball from the 4 ball. Once you do that your opponent is going to have a REAL hard time not leaving you the game on a platter
 
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Island Drive

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Bill the only concern I have with the two railer on the 11 ball (other than being jacked up) is if it gives my opponent a ball to hide behind if it comes back down table. But the strength of now exposing the bank shot to hmy hole is Strong and like you said a concern for your opponent, so what are your thoughts about my draw shot, between the eleven and the cluster?
 

wincardona

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I'm not sure I'm following. Again. I considered the two railer. My issue with it was that I would definitely break up the two balls by his hole that didn't go. So, if I banked that ball , even if I break up the two tied up balls on my side, is it worth it if I leave him sitting on a shot with 2-3 balls still near his hole and now free ?


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The answer to your question is ..certainly not. When executing the double bank on the 11ball you must hit a "full ball" and use your stroke to turn the ball to create the angle you want. If you hit the balls to your left you have "butchered" the shot and deserve to lose,:sorry When choosing this option you must control the cue ball and then secondly control the cue ball.;)

Set shots like this one up and learn how to both control the cue ball and at the same time control the OB.

Bill Incardona
 

onepockethacker

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Bill the only concern I have with the two railer on the 11 ball (other than being jacked up) is if it gives my opponent a ball to hide behind if it comes back down table. But the strength of now exposing the bank shot to hmy hole is Strong and like you said a concern for your opponent, so what are your thoughts about my draw shot, between the eleven and the cluster?

Even though you asked Billy I will give you my opinion. If you draw back between the 2 balls and the 11 ball you still have left the 11 ball makeable for your opponent and all he has to do is come off of lets say the 12 ball or even a ball down table and double you on the 4 ball using the 2 balls clustered by your side to hook you. If he is able to come off the 12 ball and open all 3 balls up and leave you doubled up you are in trouble.
 

jrhendy

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You are not going to touch the 2 balls(12 and 6) by his pocket.

After I make the four, rail first and come up table a little, maybe loosening the two balls on my side, I am going to touch ALL the balls by his pocket because I am going to use the ball on the end rail to clear his pocket out.

There is a danger that the ball closest to his pocket could carom down and across table leaving some type of cross bank or even move the balls on the spot, but the score is now 4 zip with more balls up table and the cue call on the end rail.
 
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Mkbtank

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Another WWYD

The answer to your question is ..certainly not. When executing the double bank on the 11ball you must hit a "full ball" and use your stroke to turn the ball to create the angle you want. If you hit the balls to your left you have "butchered" the shot and deserve to lose,:sorry When choosing this option you must control the cue ball and then secondly control the cue ball.;)



Set shots like this one up and learn how to both control the cue ball and at the same time control the OB.



Bill Incardona


Ok then :). Love it. Thanks for the explanations.


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wincardona

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Bill the only concern I have with the two railer on the 11 ball (other than being jacked up) is if it gives my opponent a ball to hide behind if it comes back down table. But the strength of now exposing the bank shot to hmy hole is Strong and like you said a concern for your opponent, so what are your thoughts about my draw shot, between the eleven and the cluster?
Bill, I wouldn't consider your shot:sorry Too many things can go wrong with your option and the reward is minimal in comparison to the risk. Just my opinion.

If i'm not going to choose the 11ball as my option i'm playing rail first with the 4ball and playing to open up the balls that are tied up on my side. There is a certain amount of gamble with this option played in this fashion but if you're going to shoot the 4ball you must play to run some balls or you're just doing your opponent a favor if you don't.

In this position once the 4ball is gone the superior side of the table is your opponents side. You must respect this ..before you shoot the 4ball. To leave the three ball cluster (11-3-12) where they are and choose another option is asking for trouble. And to leave them there with a 3-0 lead is something that I really wouldn't want to do for the reasons i've explained.

THE 11BALL IS A VERY PROBLEMATIC BALL FOR YOU...MOVE IT NOW WHILE YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY, AND A GOOD ONE FOR THAT MATTER.

Bill Incardona
 

wincardona

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After I make the four, rail first and come up table a little, maybe loosening the two balls on my side, I am going to touch ALL the balls by his pocket because I am going to use the ball on the end rail to clear his pocket out.

There is a danger that the ball closest to his pocket could carom down and across table leaving some type of cross bank or even move the balls on the spot, but the score is now 4 zip with more balls up table and the cue call on the end rail.

I know how to settle this, lets ask The Ghost what he thinks about your option.:D That would be the fairest way to judge this situation.

WHAT DO YOU THINK???

Bill Incardona
 

FastEddieF.

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the right shot

the right shot

remember you can't out move THE GHOST. Dr.Bill is really playing great onepocket this morning I like his thought pattern, keep up the great thinking pattern. Dr.Bill wins the cookie IMO also I think the GHOST will agree.
 

jtompilot

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I was afraid of hitting the 12 while drawing the qb when banking the 11. It was much easier than I thought to draw the rock. I missed the break out, the 11 was heading for the 4 but ran out of gas. The 11 partially blocked the 4. Opponent is screwed.

Also tried to carom the 11 into the 4 but missed. I ended up not selling out a shot but didn't accomplish much to help myself out. If I had made the 4 then it was off to the races.
 

wincardona

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I was afraid of hitting the 12 while drawing the qb when banking the 11. It was much easier than I thought to draw the rock. I missed the break out, the 11 was heading for the 4 but ran out of gas. The 11 partially blocked the 4. Opponent is screwed.

Also tried to carom the 11 into the 4 but missed. I ended up not selling out a shot but didn't accomplish much to help myself out. If I had made the 4 then it was off to the races.
Thanks for the report Jim. Even though it's only one result in a situation where there could be many different results it still is note worthy to look at it from the perspective you described.

The result you got supported the 11ball bank, however, there are also good things that can happen with the other options as well. But the fact that by choosing the 11ball option guarantees you of moving the problematic ball (11ball) and at the same time opening up the banking lane for the 6ball should be reason enough to strongly consider that option. By choosing that option you are guaranteed to leave the table in a much better position.

Bill Incardona
 

Tom Wirth

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I was afraid of hitting the 12 while drawing the qb when banking the 11. It was much easier than I thought to draw the rock. I missed the break out, the 11 was heading for the 4 but ran out of gas. The 11 partially blocked the 4. Opponent is screwed.

Also tried to carom the 11 into the 4 but missed. I ended up not selling out a shot but didn't accomplish much to help myself out. If I had made the 4 then it was off to the races.

Nice report Jim, I am a bit surprised you were able to get so much on the eleven ball without cutting it to the point that you hit the twelve ball with the cue ball. But then you say the eleven ran out of gas so that may explain it to some degree. I wonder if you can map out where the cue ball and eleven ball ended up resting at the conclusion of your shot?

Setting up the carom shot would be very difficult to recreate having only one image to work with but that shot looks like a viable option should a player choose to get aggressive. Considering the fact that the four ball is hanging in the hole makes the prospect of a successful carom all the more enticing.

Tom
 

jrhendy

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I know how to settle this, lets ask The Ghost what he thinks about your option.:D That would be the fairest way to judge this situation.

WHAT DO YOU THINK???

Bill Incardona

There you are, stirring it up again. Must be feeling better and that is a good thing.

I believe the Ghost will come up with his own option here if he does not agree with his horse.:lol He is at least as stubborn as I am.
 

WhatWouldWojoDo

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I would look at playing the 11 into the 4, cue ball off the bottom rail and back into the 6. If its an option this is what I'd look at. I could make a ball, clear the 12 up table, control the cue ball and have the 10 or 11 for my next shot. If the score was 3-0 before this I feel I get at least 3 and then bank the 6 in front of my hole and leave the cue ball next to the 2 (using the 2 balls near the spot as my blockers).
 

wincardona

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BI, the eleven ball after its hit. I know Not touching the combo is #1 priority....but the 11 ball location that you Must avoid is where?

Bill, i'm not thinking about where I want the 11ball to end up but what I am thinking about is drawing the cue ball back far enough to use the spotted balls as a blocker for the 4ball. Hopefully the 11ball will open up the two tied up balls on my side. Like I mentioned earlier the three main things of concern for me is to move the 11ball play a good cue ball and open up the banking lane for the 6ball.

Bill Incardona
 
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