Aiming systems

wgcp

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long beach, mississippi
Okay,
With the exception of a passover bank (the beards first book), which works for me above 80% now that I figured the small cut out...

Do any of you use a system?:confused:

Or do you play by just seeing the shot... it seems as when I am playing my best... I just see it, cut or bank... then when I least expect it I miss a really easy shot... or get out of line for the next... :(

How do you improve your concentration, or use a system that doesn't fail you?

Bille
 

NH Steve

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Great point, Vapros, I think that says it all.

I think mainly for banks I either consciously or unconsciously compare the shot I am looking at to a common shot I remember, and then I adjust from there, either consciously or unconsciously -- probably depending on if I am on a roll or not. I do often use my cue stick to help visualize the angle going into the first rail (relative to the cue ball). What I am looking at when I do that is just help seeing the cut angle into the rail, not a specific spot on the rail. Then I use memory and feel -- which I believe naturally takes into consideration english and speed. I know I bank best when I keep my bridge short and stay closer to the middle of the cue ball, i.e. not too much english -- unless of course it is a real english style bank where you need to load up.
 

lll

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vero beach fl
i took a lesson from a pro once and we were discussing banks. i told him beyond angle in equals angle out i mainly banked by feel.
he said when you go to get dressed in the morning do you put the lights on in the closet to pick out your clothes???
he then showed me some systems for one and 2 rail banks/kicks that were amazingly accurate.
i still beleive in "letting the force be with you" but i use the systems as a guideline
for cutting ballls in i imagine the ghost ball as a combo to the pocket and try to get Q to take the place of the ghost ball. adjusting for english.
thats my 2 cents.
its gotten me to be regular on this site:)
 

androd

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I never did until I hurt my arm (1991) and lost my muscle memory. As I began to play for therapy I realized my sight on most balls is wrong. :confused: I now aim at 1/2 ball or 1/4 ball and add 1 or 2 tips of english on some shots. Experience has taught me what I need as I formed new muscle memory. The best thing I've learned is how to use inside English. I always had several systems for banks and they still work. The hardest thing is to aim where I know I'll make it, although my vision says hit it at another spot. I changed some other things ( much looser grip) and probably play better now than ever before. I'm a little short on stamina and my sight isn't good but it doesn't seem to matter. ;)
Rod.
PS, Find a system you're comfortable with and commit it to muscle memory. :)
 
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blackeee

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Jackson, Tn
wgcp said:
Okay,
With the exception of a passover bank (the beards first book), which works for me above 80% now that I figured the small cut out...

Do any of you use a system?:confused:

Or do you play by just seeing the shot... it seems as when I am playing my best... I just see it, cut or bank... then when I least expect it I miss a really easy shot... or get out of line for the next... :(

How do you improve your concentration, or use a system that doesn't fail you?

Bille
The only shot I use a system on is the half ball hit shot as Freddy describes it on his video. All other shot I use Luther Lassisters system...{look at it till it says go and shoot} I use some systems for banks; however I've memorized the spot on the rail to hit for cross corners that are nearly on. Example; The table I play on I know diamond 5 is a dead cross corner through diamond 2 on the rail at a hard speed and I go from there on shots that aren't on trying to hit a particular spot on the rail depending on the speed or english I have to use. Off angle rolling straight backs as 1-pckt shot I just play by feel.
 

fred bentivegna

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Start with a system

Start with a system

Bille, my advice is to learn and practice a good aiming system (and banking system --like mine). Get the system fundamentals ingrained into your brain. Then when you play, try to play natural and by feel. Feel is the best way. Cochran and Hoppe didnt use systems to play 3 cushion. However, they studied all the rail systems intensively when they were young.

Also, coming out of the box or under extreme pressure, sometimes the correct "feel" isnt so easy to find. That's why it is comforting to have an educated background in the physics and science of what it is you are trying to do.

The ultimate goal is to be in a zone and play by feel, but that option is not always available, especially when you are trying to outrun the nuts.

Artie B had a whole career where he just played mechanically. The mechanical, thinking sh*t worked so well, he was afraid to tamper with it's success and never really opened up. It was IMO, the only flaw in his game. He never got to hit overdrive.

Me, I was constantly on the lookout for "overdrive," and the few times I found it, I made sure I took complete advantage. That was when I could shoot my oppo down like a dog. When I hit that stride I would start looking up tourn winners.

Unfortunately, the zone is a fickle thing and most of the time I would have to think, manage and strategize my way through.

Beard
 

SJDinPHX

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Bille...Thousands of pages of "aiming systems" on the "other" site.

Bille...Thousands of pages of "aiming systems" on the "other" site.

For most of my decent playing years, I was usually a very slow starter. Not always, but, I was never sure which guy was going to show up, or when... Practicing was never my bag, nor were "aiming systems" I was always strictly a "feel" player.

I'm not saying a good system would not benefit some people, especially when it comes to banking. But for myself, I always felt (if I didn't run out of money, or get quit on) I would eventually find my grove, AKA "comfort zone"

However, as it has been quite a while since I've been "there"...Maybe I should have had a system to fall back on in my dotage...Nah ! I probably would have forgotten it by now..:rolleyes:

Caution Bille; There is almost always an ongoing "aiming system" thread, over on AZ Billiards...They usually run about 200 to 500 posts, and they ALWAYS wind up in a full scale "flame war"...They have coined a whole bunch of new acronyms, (BHE, CTE, etc.) and the Engineers, and the Physics majors, get very pissed at people who doubt their "fool-proof" methods...:eek:
 
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Skin

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I never had the patience or desire to master a system, although I tried after my 25 year layoff because I had forgotten everything. I even tried a lot of that BCA instructor robotic fundamentals stuff. Couldn't get there with it, either. Once I quit worrying about it all and just concentrated on making the shot, I got the consistency back pretty quickly. Every now and then in a spot I will use something from a system, but generally I just go with my "million balls" intuition and whatever stance & grip feel right at the time. The less you have on your mind, the better your concentration will be, in my opinion; so clearing the mind is a good way to improve concentration. And definitiely if you feel uncomfortable, concentration will suffer.

Skin
 

NH Steve

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As others have already said, a good combination of solid fundamentals, lots of experience and feel probably makes the best system. However, I do believe a little understanding of the principles involved also helps push your limits -- especially with banks.

I made a nice carom bank on a local 8-ball player last weekend (alas, no One Pocket). I believe it helped to know that the carom would impart a little extra running english on the 8, and the proximity of the cue ball would also mean the slightest cut on the 8 would impart a little english too. So I kept everything light and easy and the 8 banked across sweet as can be...:D
[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3Cabd3DWPO3EYVb3HWpv3PQuG3cWpv3cYlr3cart4ccps3kQuG3kUUy3kUUx3kTvo@[/CUETABLE]
 

gulfportdoc

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fred bentivegna said:
Bille, my advice is to learn and practice a good aiming system (and banking system --like mine). Get the system fundamentals ingrained into your brain. Then when you play, try to play natural and by feel. Feel is the best way. Cochran and Hoppe didnt use systems to play 3 cushion. However, they studied all the rail systems intensively when they were young.

Also, coming out of the box or under extreme pressure, sometimes the correct "feel" isnt so easy to find. That's why it is comforting to have an educated background in the physics and science of what it is you are trying to do.
I always knew that you were a closet science guy!

Digs aside, my ball pocketing was better when I consistently used the 1/2, 1/4, 1/8 ball hit method. I've drifted away from using that method consistently, and as a result I'm missing balls I ought not. Also on long cuts over 30 degrees, I have good success with a partial version of Houle's system taught to me by Richard S. I don't use that enough!

But my aiming is sometimes robbed by stance/alignment. It doesn't matter if I know precisely where to hit the OB if I can't deliver the stroke along a straight line to that target.

I'm getting better at "feel" cross-corners, because they come up so often in 1P; but I'm still weak on "feel" straight-backs. I almost always use the diamonds with various adjustments. I have no reliable feel for 2 and 3 railers, so I must use the diamonds.

Bille, you know James C. from Gulfport. He's a good banker, originally from Kentucky. He said he visualizes the spot on the rail for banks as "the pocket". Works for him...

Doc
 

lll

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gulfportdoc said:
Bille, you know James C. from Gulfport. He's a good banker, originally from Kentucky. He said he visualizes the spot on the rail for banks as "the pocket". Works for him...

Doc
if you use the mirror system you can aim at "a pocket" if not "the pocket"
 

wgcp

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Thanks,

Thanks,

Actually this thread was a sorry attempt at me trying to get an "edge" on Freddy... My wife (bless her heart), has agreed that when I get home from the desert, I get a 4 day weekend to go and play pool where ever I want...

So I have picked Chicago... (sorry SJD), to go and play the Beard...

Besides drunken debauchery... I hope Freddy still drinks... I really wanted to match up some one pocket...

Thanks guys...

by the way, he has a handsome model for his shirt on his website now...lol:eek:
 

fred bentivegna

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I drink -- some

I drink -- some

wgcp said:
Actually this thread was a sorry attempt at me trying to get an "edge" on Freddy... My wife (bless her heart), has agreed that when I get home from the desert, I get a 4 day weekend to go and play pool where ever I want...

So I have picked Chicago... (sorry SJD), to go and play the Beard...

Besides drunken debauchery... I hope Freddy still drinks... I really wanted to match up some one pocket...

Thanks guys...

by the way, he has a handsome model for his shirt on his website now...lol:eek:


I will take a nip in key spots. However, my roommate who is Serbian, can consume ridiculous amounts of hard liquor. Ridiculous amounts.

Beard

Anxiously awaiting your presence
 

Dudley

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San Jose, CA
fred bentivegna said:
I will take a nip in key spots. However, my roommate who is Serbian, can consume ridiculous amounts of hard liquor. Ridiculous amounts.

Beard

Anxiously awaiting your presence

Hey Beard,

Does your roommate drink šljiva?

My wife is from that part of the world (pretty close to serbia) and the hard alcohol drink of choice where she comes from is Loza.... (the bottle with the black label)
flashe.jpg

Its really good stuff. Unfortunately we are only allowed to bring back 4 bottles with us when returning from visiting her family.

Dud
 

androd

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Dudley said:
Hey Beard,

Does your roommate drink šljiva?

My wife is from that part of the world (pretty close to serbia) and the hard alcohol drink of choice where she comes from is Loza.... (the bottle with the black label)
View attachment 1281

Its really good stuff. Unfortunately we are only allowed to bring back 4 bottles with us when returning from visiting her family.

Dud

That stuff'll make you slap Granny.:)
Rod.
 

fred bentivegna

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Of course he does

Of course he does

Dudley said:
Hey Beard,

Does your roommate drink šljiva?

My wife is from that part of the world (pretty close to serbia) and the hard alcohol drink of choice where she comes from is Loza.... (the bottle with the black label)
View attachment 1281

Its really good stuff. Unfortunately we are only allowed to bring back 4 bottles with us when returning from visiting her family.

Dud

He only gets that when he visits relatives or goes to Serbian affair. He settles for very expensive whiskey, however.

Beard
 

glbglb

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Jul 3, 2008
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shuffet

shuffet

i have to jump in and give stan shuffet's new pro one aiming method some recognition. i went and took the full course several months ago and have seen dramatic improvement on banks and general shotmaking. he straightend out some fundamental stroke problems i had which helped too, but the aiming method is super strong.
 
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