2024 MOT dates and location

rnewkirk

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Early April sounds alright to me, personally. Right now, I am going through some things that just barely let me play about 25%

of what I would like to. The tournaments that I really want to make are - our MOT, the Bogies Senior tourney. The Buffalo's tournament in May

is one that I really would like to make every year. But, I go there for the action and to watch the top players. I wear myself out playing.

I probably would not play in a little mini at Buff's 3 due to main tournament and my own action.

Count me in on the Railyards MOT tourney. My wife, Paula, and I would be there a day or 2 early for action.
 

jtompilot

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Early April sounds alright to me, personally. Right now, I am going through some things that just barely let me play about 25%

of what I would like to. The tournaments that I really want to make are - our MOT, the Bogies Senior tourney. The Buffalo's tournament in May

is one that I really would like to make every year. But, I go there for the action and to watch the top players. I wear myself out playing.

I probably would not play in a little mini at Buff's 3 due to main tournament and my own action.

Count me in on the Railyards MOT tourney. My wife, Paula, and I would be there a day or 2 early for action.
I booked the Garden Inn by the airport for April 3-7. We plan on driving there.
 

rnewkirk

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They only have 8 tables, It's going to be brutal scheduling. Better start early and have "Express" rules in place.
Jim, I have been watching the Buff's tournament going on right now. I have not noticed any "Express" rules affecting the shortness of matches.

If the rules helped cut down on matches running over 4 hrs, that's great. Also, the race to 3,4 or 5 should be considered.

As far as Railyards having 8 tables, 32 players can be done if matches are monitored for slow play. I would say 4 hrs maximum

on races to 3. I like the rule of if you owe a ball and your opponent scratches, the you are both even.

See you in Louisville. (y)
 

crabbcatjohn

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They only have 8 tables, It's going to be brutal scheduling. Better start early and have "Express" rules in place.
Now that Steve's retired I think he will be handling all of the TD type decisions. It's good to have one person do that. Im sure everybody's input and pitching in when needed will help.

I think you guys will have a good handle on the express rules after NOLA. I'll be interested to hear Joes opinion too if adjustments are needed when its over.

Good shooting BTW.
 

crabbcatjohn

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Railyards has a 32 man tourney in January, so it will be a good test to see how it goes. They are doing race to 3dbl Elim until final 8. Then races to 4. Final one race to 5.
After the first couple rounds we won't need 8 tables anyway. Wev'e been doing enough of these to know starting at noon does the trick. I think in the next few weeks after the reports come in if the membership are interested in promoting express rules for tournaments we should find out. I'm not against them.
 

BRLongArm

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Now that Steve's retired I think he will be handling all of the TD type decisions. It's good to have one person do that. Im sure everybody's input and pitching in when needed will help.

I think you guys will have a good handle on the express rules after NOLA. I'll be interested to hear Joes opinion too if adjustments are needed when its over.

Good shooting BTW.
Like most rules, they usually apply only to 5-10% of the bad actors. Same here. We had three slow players in the event and nobody else had to play the express rules. I think we go to Grady after two hours for all matches would be the only tweak I would consider from the original rules. This is because some guys played at a good pace until the fourth game, which dragged on. The Grady rule at 2 hours would stop all that.
 

NH Steve

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I am not going to any tournament that has “new” rules that favors the better players.
I doubt the Grady rule would make any difference, in terms of favoring one skill level over another skill level. The races to 3 (as opposed to longer races) have proven to be a match length that draws some upsets every tournament, and that is what we have been doing at our MOT's.
 

crabbcatjohn

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I am not going to any tournament that has “new” rules that favors the better players.
You are not a slow player so it should not effect your sets.

Like most rules, they usually apply only to 5-10% of the bad actors. Same here. We had three slow players in the event and nobody else had to play the express rules. I think we go to Grady after two hours for all matches would be the only tweak I would consider from the original rules. This is because some guys played at a good pace until the fourth game, which dragged on. The Grady rule at 2 hours would stop all that.
In our amatuer tournaments the matches all seem to last longer the deeper in the tournament players get..
 

lfigueroa

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I am not going to any tournament that has “new” rules that favors the better players.

I don't know that it necessarily favors the better player but I am inclined to agree with the sentiment of not participating in tournaments putting these kind of rules into place.

I suppose one could argue the better player will have played to position up table balls to his favor, which might actually hurt the better player. And then there's the question of exactly when does it happen? I would hope players get a couple of innings, like when sleeping a spotted ball, to make proper strategic allocations. But then again, the clock and/or a TD suddenly telling players balls are going to start moving, for no other reason than to speed up the tournament... basically I don't think I want any part of that.

I'd happily play a tournament with a shot clock but not this stuff.

Lou Figueroa
 

rnewkirk

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Weatherford, TX
I am not going to any tournament that has “new” rules that favors the better players.
Bill, I would think that with all your years of playing 1-pkt, I would think you would have an advantage on faster rules. Some (most)

slow players know what shot to shoot in 5 seconds (and shoots 95% of the time), but still take 3 or 4 minutes to shoot. I don't see where

speeding up the slow players gives the better players an advantage.
 

jtompilot

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New Orleans
I don't know that it necessarily favors the better player but I am inclined to agree with the sentiment of not participating in tournaments putting these kind of rules into place.

I suppose one could argue the better player will have played to position up table balls to his favor, which might actually hurt the better player. And then there's the question of exactly when does it happen? I would hope players get a couple of innings, like when sleeping a spotted ball, to make proper strategic allocations. But then again, the clock and/or a TD suddenly telling players balls are going to start moving, for no other reason than to speed up the tournament... basically I don't think I want any part of that.

I'd happily play a tournament with a shot clock but not this stuff.

Lou Figueroa
Unfortunately, a shot clock won’t solve Nick Varner and the likes pushing all the balls up table and taking 6-10 hrs in a race to three😝
 

Jeff sparks

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Houston, Texas
Early April sounds alright to me, personally. Right now, I am going through some things that just barely let me play about 25%

of what I would like to. The tournaments that I really want to make are - our MOT, the Bogies Senior tourney. The Buffalo's tournament in May

is one that I really would like to make every year. But, I go there for the action and to watch the top players. I wear myself out playing.

I probably would not play in a little mini at Buff's 3 due to main tournament and my own action.

Count me in on the Railyards MOT tourney. My wife, Paula, and I would be there a day or 2 early for action.
If I come, can I play Paula?
 

lfigueroa

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Unfortunately, a shot clock won’t solve Nick Varner and the likes pushing all the balls up table and taking 6-10 hrs in a race to three😝

Probably not but think about it:

We have all this gnashing of teeth and rending of garments over *one guy.* So really it's not a rules issue, it's a *one guy* issue (OK, maybe there's a couple of other guys but they're issues would be solved by a shot clock).

The solution to the one guy wedge problem is a TD with the calzones to tell him to knock it off and shoot at his pocket. And if he doesn't, to start penalizing him, perhaps awarding balls to his opponent. If you know the game you can pretty much tell when a guy is passing on shots most would shoot at, in favor of excessively passive safties.

Lou Figueroa
 

jtompilot

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New Orleans
Probably not but think about it:

We have all this gnashing of teeth and rending of garments over *one guy.* So really it's not a rules issue, it's a *one guy* issue (OK, maybe there's a couple of other guys but they're issues would be solved by a shot clock).

The solution to the one guy wedge problem is a TD with the calzones to tell him to knock it off and shoot at his pocket. And if he doesn't, to start penalizing him, perhaps awarding balls to his opponent. If you know the game you can pretty much tell when a guy is passing on shots most would shoot at, in favor of excessively passive safties.

Lou Figueroa
How can the TD tell a guy to shoot at his hole unless there’s a rule. You have to play by the rules!
 
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lfigueroa

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How can the TD tell a guy to shoot at his hole unless there’s a rule. You have to play by the rules!

I think one of the implicit responsibilities of a TD is to keep the event moving along at a reasonable pace.

I also think that, given an announcement at the player’s meeting concerning how slow play will be dealt with, effectively puts a rule in place and resolves your concern.

Lou Figueroa
 

NH Steve

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I think one of the implicit responsibilities of a TD is to keep the event moving along at a reasonable pace.

I also think that, given an announcement at the player’s meeting concerning how slow play will be dealt with, effectively puts a rule in place and resolves your concern.

Lou Figueroa
It is true that one option would be to announce that there will be penalties for slow play, and then enforce those penalties in a manner that speeds the finish (like awarding balls). But which player do you penalize unless you actually watch the whole match -- which is not possible?? If you are penalizing both by awarding balls, then basically you have gone to one of the two rules that was just put in place at the Buffalo's tournament.

At the recent Buff event there were two stages of penalty. First off to be 100% clear, everyone played 100% traditional rules all the way UNLESS they fell behind. The first penalty rule that kicked in only after 2 hours of slow play, was the Grady Rule, for all subsequent games (not started mid-game). Then if the match still wasn't finished by 3 hours, the 2nd penalty rule kicked in, which was each player goes to 6, not 8, for all subsequent games (not started mid-game). Going to 6 is like awarding each player 2 balls, correct? But not as a sudden penalty mid-game, so they can be prepared. This rule only came up once at the Buff's event. The Grady rule came up several times and seemed to be handled fine by the players.

There was one issue of a player who had been penalized earlier in a long match (And yes, it is usually kind of predictable players that run into this, but obviously not just Nick Varner), who assumed he was going to 6 when actually his match hadn't got to that stage yet, and he mistakenly raked the balls abruptly when he had scored 6, which resulted in him forfeiting that game (and match). There is no accounting for a guy raking balls without double checking with his opponent, no matter what rules you are playing by -- it is just a bad idea.

The solution to the one guy wedge problem is a TD with the calzones to tell him to knock it off and shoot at his pocket. And if he doesn't, to start penalizing him, perhaps awarding balls to his opponent. If you know the game you can pretty much tell when a guy is passing on shots most would shoot at, in favor of excessively passive safties.

Awarding balls is quite similar to going to 6 except it simply applies to both players, and both players are informed prior to it going in to place.
 

BRLongArm

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I was glad Steve was at the tournament so he could give everyone an objective after action report on the implementation of the Express Rules (He doesn't like that term, but that is what the promoter calls them). I agree with him that most of the players never even had to use the Express Rules and the one slow player that always was involved in Express Rules assumed he was going to six like before because he didn't double check before raking the balls. You can't cure stupidity. Self inflicted wounds are regrettable, but preventable.

I talked with Greg Sullivan after the tournament and he was VERY appreciative at our efforts and was pleased with the results. No decision on whether they will be implemented at this year's Derby, though. He just wanted to make sure that all of you know that he was proud of the work we did in figuring out rules to speed play in tournaments and that they worked in practice. It is not a matter of if these rules will be reality in the future, it is when the Derby will adopt them.

Ray Hansen is the biggest one pocket promoter in the country and you can expect these rules to be used in other low entry fee events that have 32 or more players. I don't know if they will be used in Professional events. I think that will depend on the promoter and the room owner. I thought the Buffalos event was an unqualified success and the fans were also appreciative that the event went along smoothly. I want to thank Ray and Jason Hill, the tournament director, for their fine work at the tournament and helping speed tournament play.
 
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