Billy vs Scooter matchup at DCC

1on1pooltournys

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I watched bits and pieces of Billy's match against Scoot. I was surprised to see Billy in the box as I had heard he hadn't been playing much as of late. The parts of the match I saw I liked Billy, but the final score was Scooter winning 5 to 3 I believe.

In their match it was obvious this was a classic example of how not to play one pocket, but somehow still winning. Scooter is basically a pure straight shooter and will shoot at 1 ball taking a risk to give up several. Once Billy left him straight in almost froze on the end rail, with an OB along the side rail straight into his pocket. Scooter didn't think but 10 seconds, jacked up, fired the ball straight in and stopped snow dead in its tracks. Should he have missed Billy is on the right side of the stack with options to shoot and or move multiple balls into his pocket.

Billy fought hard in his match and had a chance to tie the set at 4-4 but he got a little funny while running some balls. This is where I was a bit shocked he took somewhat of a "flyer" by banking a "cut bank" to his hole and sending snow around three rails back on Scooter's side near his hole. If he makes it he probably wins the game, but at this point he had gotten himself back into a position to win, and I was surprised he went for the bank because it left scooter a bank at his hole.

So, the main point of this...are there times when two particular styles clash in a matchup, and perhaps Scooter's reckless play rubbed off a bit on Billy? I ask because while I watched this match up it reminded me of something that happened to me recently. I lost money (substantial amount) to somebody that I think I can beat. His style is similar to Scooters in that he shoots the wrong shots, but executes them so good he gets away with it.

I guess when these wild shooters are hot it is best to leave them alone. I enjoyed watching Billy he knows the game well.

After this loss tho, he walked around with his cue the rest of the week asking for the mortal nuts, and almost got a partner of mine to give him the dead nuts but I intervened. :eek:

Practice up Billy...you have a good game there with ol Scoot I think.
 

NH Steve

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Billy vs Scooter matchup at DCC

I think one of the hardest things to defend against in One pocket is a straight shooter with gonads that does not "know" the game. Sounds like what Billy ran in to
 
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One Pocket Ghost

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I guess when these wild shooters are hot it is best to leave them alone.


I think one of the hardest things to defend against in One pocket is a straight shooter with gonads that does not "know" the game. Sounds like what Billy ran in to


All depends...

Bobby Emmons also shoots the wrong shots, and shoots straighter than Scooter...but all that 'straight-shooting' didn't help him two weeks ago, when he played Efren with that 3-4 ball spot - or when he played Santos after that.

- Ghost
 

tylerdurden

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I didn't see the match, but would guess one thing that may have happened was billy was playing his game, and didn't think he could win the match by continuing that way, so decided he had to get more aggressive.

I think we'd all agree if a guy is shooting terrible shots and only able to get one, we should keep leaving them for him. But, sometimes it is easier said than done.
 

wincardona

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I watched bits and pieces of Billy's match against Scoot. I was surprised to see Billy in the box as I had heard he hadn't been playing much as of late. The parts of the match I saw I liked Billy, but the final score was Scooter winning 5 to 3 I believe.

In their match it was obvious this was a classic example of how not to play one pocket, but somehow still winning. Scooter is basically a pure straight shooter and will shoot at 1 ball taking a risk to give up several. Once Billy left him straight in almost froze on the end rail, with an OB along the side rail straight into his pocket. Scooter didn't think but 10 seconds, jacked up, fired the ball straight in and stopped snow dead in its tracks. Should he have missed Billy is on the right side of the stack with options to shoot and or move multiple balls into his pocket.

Billy fought hard in his match and had a chance to tie the set at 4-4 but he got a little funny while running some balls. This is where I was a bit shocked he took somewhat of a "flyer" by banking a "cut bank" to his hole and sending snow around three rails back on Scooter's side near his hole. If he makes it he probably wins the game, but at this point he had gotten himself back into a position to win, and I was surprised he went for the bank because it left scooter a bank at his hole.

So, the main point of this...are there times when two particular styles clash in a matchup, and perhaps Scooter's reckless play rubbed off a bit on Billy? I ask because while I watched this match up it reminded me of something that happened to me recently. I lost money (substantial amount) to somebody that I think I can beat. His style is similar to Scooters in that he shoots the wrong shots, but executes them so good he gets away with it.

I guess when these wild shooters are hot it is best to leave them alone. I enjoyed watching Billy he knows the game well.

After this loss tho, he walked around with his cue the rest of the week asking for the mortal nuts, and almost got a partner of mine to give him the dead nuts but I intervened. :eek:

Practice up Billy...you have a good game there with ol Scoot I think.
I really didn't want to take my cue to the Derby this year but I couldn't resist, guess it's in my blood. You say after I lost to Scooter I was hustling the nuts for the rest of the week, how do you figure that? I'm a 70 year old player that just came off of foot surgery and have arthritis in my bridge hand. I had problems making a bridge because of the pain in the base of my thumb (similar to carpal tunnel) Plus I hadn't played pool in over 4-1/2 months. I owe you for intervening by talking your friend out of playing me. lol. When I was playing regularly Rob Melrose gave me 10/7 and beat me and just about all the players that I tried to match up with play over Rob.

Here's the truth. If you would of bet on me the last 5 years of me matching up with players your record wouldn't be very good at all. I really don't remember the last time I beat a player playing anything.:eek: Maybe you can refresh my memory. I can name at least a dozen times that I have been beaten in the last 5 years.

Shane VanBoening--One hit and the pick. (2010)
Scott Frost---10/8 and the hit and the pick (2009)
Danny Smith---10/7 (2011)
Richie Richeson-10/7 (2012)
Joey Gray--10/7 (2012)
Rob Melrose--8/7 (2012)
Rob Melrose--10/8 (2012)
Rob Melrose--10/7 (2013)
Ike Rennels--9/8 (2009)
Jesse Bowman even (2008)
Justin Cone--(2009)

Yes I have won a few times.
John Henderson GIVING 8/7--9/8 (2012)
Tony Chohan one hit and pick ((2010)
cliff joyner--9/6--11/7 (2009)
Chris Bartrum even (2009) played about 2 hours

If you haven't noticed i'll point out that I haven't beaten anyone in the last couple pf years, maybe i'm getting worse, maybe. Scooter even (2014) I thought just like you that I had a good game...I thought.

Bill Incardona
 

darmoose

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Naawww!!

Naawww!!

I think one of the hardest things to defend against in One pocket is a straight shooter with gonads that does not "know" the game. Sounds like what Billy ran in to

Wouldn't this be sad commentary for our sport, if it were true. The hardest opponents to beat are those straight shooting bangers that know nothing about one pocket??

What would be the point of all that learning the game, reading, watching videos. One pocket tournaments would be dominated by nine ball runout artists.

I certainly hope you are mistaken, I think so.:sorry
 

onepockethacker

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2 things I can say about Billy... He definitely doesn't hustle the nuts and is great action...AND.. Sorry to say he is finished as a player. He knows the game as well as anyone but CANNOT execute anymore.. I dont know maybe it has something to do with him being 70!! Billy is definitely some of the best action in the country.. you get to bet what you want against a 70 year old who cant execute.. come to think of it I would much rather play Shane:rolleyes:
 

1on1pooltournys

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I really didn't want to take my cue to the Derby this year but I couldn't resist, guess it's in my blood. You say after I lost to Scooter I was hustling the nuts for the rest of the week, how do you figure that? I'm a 70 year old player that just came off of foot surgery and have arthritis in my bridge hand. I had problems making a bridge because of the pain in the base of my thumb (similar to carpal tunnel) Plus I hadn't played pool in over 4-1/2 months. I owe you for intervening by talking your friend out of playing me. lol. When I was playing regularly Rob Melrose gave me 10/7 and beat me and just about all the players that I tried to match up with play over Rob.

Here's the truth. If you would of bet on me the last 5 years of me matching up with players your record wouldn't be very good at all. I really don't remember the last time I beat a player playing anything.:eek: Maybe you can refresh my memory. I can name at least a dozen times that I have been beaten in the last 5 years.

Shane VanBoening--One hit and the pick. (2010)
Scott Frost---10/8 and the hit and the pick (2009)
Danny Smith---10/7 (2011)
Richie Richeson-10/7 (2012)
Joey Gray--10/7 (2012)
Rob Melrose--8/7 (2012)
Rob Melrose--10/8 (2012)
Rob Melrose--10/7 (2013)
Ike Rennels--9/8 (2009)
Jesse Bowman even (2008)
Justin Cone--(2009)

Yes I have won a few times.
John Henderson GIVING 8/7--9/8 (2012)
Tony Chohan one hit and pick ((2010)
cliff joyner--9/6--11/7 (2009)
Chris Bartrum even (2009) played about 2 hours

If you haven't noticed i'll point out that I haven't beaten anyone in the last couple pf years, maybe i'm getting worse, maybe. Scooter even (2014) I thought just like you that I had a good game...I thought.

Bill Incardona

Lol I hit a nerve with the "hustling the nuts"? I was being facetious Mr. Incardona, as I understand what it is like not to be playing much at all because the last 6 months I've played about once every 10 days. However, I can not sympathize with being 70 as you are double my age. :(

I still think you have a good game there with Scooter. When I said I "intervened" I simply meant I declined the partner game you offered Bartram. Trust me NOBODY can stop Bartram from playing if he likes his side of a game. :lol

Enjoyed watching you play Scooter. Do you think my questions are valid in earlier post? Does his "style" bother you or conflict with yours at all?
 

Alexonepockettrickshots

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Mr. Incardona. You are awesome. I love hearing your commentary as I watch certain one pocket matches. It seems you outshine many of the other commentators at times with decision making. Thank you.
 

Ken_4fun

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Whats even worse is a pure shooter who shoots the wrong shots and makes it where I think it is 10%-20% to make the shot and 80-90% to completely sell out if he doesnt.

Then you have to listen for the next hour how he shot the right shot...;):rolleyes:

My friend from my hometown actually did this to Grady Matthews. Grady's skills had dwindled in his later years but he shot the right shots. My friend from my and 1on1pooltourny's home town played him at the DCC.

My friend is a straight shooter and had just started to play one pocket. He played Grady and made everything he shot at, and beat Grady, shooting low percentage shot after low percentage shot. After winning, he tried to show Grady a couple shots....it was classic.

:D

Ken
 

FastEddieF.

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Dr.Bill

Dr.Bill

Dr.Bill,This is what happens to you when you become rich,you become the sucker and start losing in games you think you have a chance to win. Remember the sucker always has the money, also being old makes it tough ,I like being the sucker because that means I got the money so just remember when you were playing the suckers you had to win, now everybody wants to play you. So being the sucker means you will lose sometimes but you got the money and they want to play you so they can win your money. So being the sucker is wonderfull. 70 is old, you had a long run 50 years or more so now is the time to give back alittle. Remember when you were playing guys 60 or over they were the suckers now look in the mirror you became one of those guys.LOL
 

petie

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I'm thinking Billy should have doubled up for a second race. Straight shooters are tough to beat but they can't go forever without the odds beating them. Once they start to dog it a little, they are going to fall apart. The only thing is you have to be able to make them pay for mistakes. This will eventually get into their head and defeat them.
 

tylerdurden

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Dr.Bill,This is what happens to you when you become rich,you become the sucker and start losing in games you think you have a chance to win. Remember the sucker always has the money, also being old makes it tough ,I like being the sucker because that means I got the money so just remember when you were playing the suckers you had to win, now everybody wants to play you. So being the sucker means you will lose sometimes but you got the money and they want to play you so they can win your money. So being the sucker is wonderfull. 70 is old, you had a long run 50 years or more so now is the time to give back alittle. Remember when you were playing guys 60 or over they were the suckers now look in the mirror you became one of those guys.LOL

You've convinced me. I wanna be a sucker. Or, maybe I already am one :confused:
 

androd

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I'm thinking Billy should have doubled up for a second race. Straight shooters are tough to beat but they can't go forever without the odds beating them. Once they start to dog it a little, they are going to fall apart. The only thing is you have to be able to make them pay for mistakes. This will eventually get into their head and defeat them.

This is what they always say to us Suckers after we go off. :)
Rod.
P.S. Getting old ain't for Sissies.
 

wincardona

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Lol I hit a nerve with the "hustling the nuts"? I was being facetious Mr. Incardona, as I understand what it is like not to be playing much at all because the last 6 months I've played about once every 10 days. However, I can not sympathize with being 70 as you are double my age. :(

I still think you have a good game there with Scooter. When I said I "intervened" I simply meant I declined the partner game you offered Bartram. Trust me NOBODY can stop Bartram from playing if he likes his side of a game. :lol

Enjoyed watching you play Scooter. Do you think my questions are valid in earlier post? Does his "style" bother you or conflict with yours at all?
I'm really finished as a player, however, I can still at times look like I can play...that's what got me. I can still hit a gear that is fairly high, however, it only last for a short time and when it goes I still think that I can get it back but it never returns..frustrating experience. With my proposal to Bartrum of 9/6 I really think it's a fair game based off of how other players have beaten me. I understand that for Bartum to agree to the 9/6 game is going to be difficult because I beat him playing even about 5 years ago, at that time we were both completely different players than we are today. I believe I played you in Vegas about 2 years ago and beat you too but my game today is 10/8 under my speed then. I also believe that in Bartrums heart he believes he has a good chance to beat me giving me 9/6 but there's this little voice in his head saying ..NO. The next time we meet i'll be playing worse than I play today but who's going to believe me?? That's the problem with having a good record with your wins versus your losses, it sticks with you forever.:frus I guess it's a good thing for me because i'm still smart enough to not give away the double nuts but not as smart as I should be because I continue to give away the nuts. Bartrum wanted to play me with you as his partner and give me 9/7..what does that tell you/ It tells me a lot.

Scooters game does not frighten me at all, what frightens me is my game...that's my problem.

Bill Incardona
 

1on1pooltournys

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I'm really finished as a player, however, I can still at times look like I can play...that's what got me. I can still hit a gear that is fairly high, however, it only last for a short time and when it goes I still think that I can get it back but it never returns..frustrating experience. With my proposal to Bartrum of 9/6 I really think it's a fair game based off of how other players have beaten me. I understand that for Bartum to agree to the 9/6 game is going to be difficult because I beat him playing even about 5 years ago, at that time we were both completely different players than we are today. I believe I played you in Vegas about 2 years ago and beat you too but my game today is 10/8 under my speed then. I also believe that in Bartrums heart he believes he has a good chance to beat me giving me 9/6 but there's this little voice in his head saying ..NO. The next time we meet i'll be playing worse than I play today but who's going to believe me?? That's the problem with having a good record with your wins versus your losses, it sticks with you forever.:frus I guess it's a good thing for me because i'm still smart enough to not give away the double nuts but not as smart as I should be because I continue to give away the nuts. Bartrum wanted to play me with you as his partner and give me 9/7..what does that tell you/ It tells me a lot.

Scooters game does not frighten me at all, what frightens me is my game...that's my problem.

Bill Incardona

Yes you beat me with ease. I even quit on my break. :frus I respect your discipline in matching up and understand that "speeds" of players often fluctuate from year to year, month to month, and even day to day. I think if you get your health in the best shape as possible you will be ready for scooter next time you cross paths. You may be getting older but the knowledge is still there and let's face it you are still in great shape for 70. Set a goal for yourself to be the best 70 year old on the planet! When your feet hit the floor in the morning imagine running 8 an out!

P.S. Bartram gets a bit loose and you noticed i never screwed my cue together for the partner game!

P.S.S. After you got back in that last game do you still like that cut bank you shot? I understand hindsight is 20/20 but I think you might of been able to "squeeze" that game out, but I can't argue with the shot you could of won the game too.
 

senor

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Wouldn't this be sad commentary for our sport, if it were true. The hardest opponents to beat are those straight shooting bangers that know nothing about one pocket??

What would be the point of all that learning the game, reading, watching videos. One pocket tournaments would be dominated by nine ball runout artists.

I certainly hope you are mistaken, I think so.:sorry

Darmoose,

Some clichés and other food for thought for you...
- The best move in one pocket is eight and out.
- In general, the first one to make eight balls wins.
- The best defense is a good offense.
- By their definition, pocket billiard games require pocketing balls.
- The squeeze is valuable, but eventually you have to bring the hammer.
- What good is it to always beat your opponent to the shot if your plan is to run 2 or 3 and duck?
- To get more specific about strategy, a matchup of one with proficient one pocket knowledge and ball pocketing skills that don't match his knowledge of the game (Player A) versus an extremely proficient ball runner (Player B), Player A needs to immediately start each game playing safe beneath the stack so that all balls get uptable as soon as possible. Player B will win by finding some kind of shot if balls remain in play.

Just my two cents.
 

backplaying

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I don't know how Billy's game is compared to 2 years ago and I haven't seen Scooter play in a couple of years, but I would have bet on Billy if they were playing even. I know a couple of years ago, Scooter couldn't beat a guy Billy offered a ball to.
 

wincardona

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Darmoose,

Some clichés and other food for thought for you...
- The best move in one pocket is eight and out.
- In general, the first one to make eight balls wins.
- The best defense is a good offense.
- By their definition, pocket billiard games require pocketing balls.
- The squeeze is valuable, but eventually you have to bring the hammer.
- What good is it to always beat your opponent to the shot if your plan is to run 2 or 3 and duck?
- To get more specific about strategy, a matchup of one with proficient one pocket knowledge and ball pocketing skills that don't match his knowledge of the game (Player A) versus an extremely proficient ball runner (Player B), Player A needs to immediately start each game playing safe beneath the stack so that all balls get uptable as soon as possible. Player B will win by finding some kind of shot if balls remain in play.

Just my two cents.

Makes total sense to me, thanks I never looked at it that way. In regard to playing an up table game.:cool:

Bill Incardona
 
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