Is this a legal stroke???

[Tennessee Joe6]

Doc, of the cue is moving forward on a masse. Look at it from the perspective of the entire cue from buttcap to tip. If the cue is pointed straight down it's still a forward motion, raising the tip isn't.

You have it correct and it's the same when you lift the tip of the cue up. The tip may even move forward in its arc but the cue from tip to butt does not go forward.

 

[Alexonepockettrickshots]

i know this has been discussed but i couldnt find it with a search and i forgot the answer.....
...
you place the tip of the cue on the felt under the edge of the cue ball and pick the shaft up so the tip hits the cue ball
...
this could be to take an intentional when you dont want to move the cue ball much
or you want the cue ball and object ball (frozen or not) to move in a straight line and avoid the queston on whether it was a push

i beleive rod stated he uses this stroke sometimes (icbw)
with todays rules (ie you cant hit the cue ball with your ferrule anymore to take an intentional)
is the stroke i described legal???

Well I bet you could invent ways to get an intentional,
like balancing a chalk on the cue ball till it falls off,
or push the cue ball with a pencil lol

 

[gulfportdoc]

Doc, of the cue is moving forward on a masse. Look at it from the perspective of the entire cue from buttcap to tip. If the cue is pointed straight down it's still a forward motion, raising the tip isn't.

You're trying to split hairs, Jtom. Shot properly, a full masse is not a forward stroke.

There are certain inconsistencies in the formal pool rules. They've been tinkering with them for decades. It's a long process from suggesting a rule change, all the way to having it instituted. And of course there are several different associations with minor differences in their rules.

Doc

 

[Tennessee Joe6]

You're trying to split hairs, Jtom. Shot properly, a full masse is not a forward stroke.

Doc

I disagree...Jtom is correct.

 

[Alexonepockettrickshots]

I disagree...Jtom is correct.

A full masse is a forward stroke. No matter if 90 degrees or not. You can still execute a full masse at 80 degrees which is a forward stroke.

 

[gulfportdoc]

Rather than using the term "forward stroke", it might have been better for the rule to use "through stroke", or something similar. That would be consistent with disallowing the cuetip lift technique, but allowing for other strokes.

Forward means ahead, in front. Unless physics has changed real recently, aiming straight down is not aiming forward. I don't recall preparing to get on an elevator --having asked if they're going up or down-- and someone said, "Oh no, we're going forward".

Doc

 

[jtompilot]

Rather than using the term "forward stroke", it might have been better for the rule to use "through stroke", or something similar. That would be consistent with disallowing the cuetip lift technique, but allowing for other strokes.

Forward means ahead, in front. Unless physics has changed real recently, aiming straight down is not aiming forward. I don't recall preparing to get on an elevator --having asked if they're going up or down-- and someone said, "Oh no, we're going forward".

Doc

Doc, don't look at it in a two dimensional plain. It's relative to the cue not the table. It's similar to why it's against the rules to strike the cue ball with the ferrule. It's a sideways movement.

Ok, we have now beat this to death.

PS. I'm back in N.O. if you Bille and I can get together some time

 

[Alexonepockettrickshots]

Rather than using the term "forward stroke", it might have been better for the rule to use "through stroke", or something similar. That would be consistent with disallowing the cuetip lift technique, but allowing for other strokes.

Forward means ahead, in front. Unless physics has changed real recently, aiming straight down is not aiming forward. I don't recall preparing to get on an elevator --having asked if they're going up or down-- and someone said, "Oh no, we're going forward".

Doc

Well now we are arguing semantics. But this doesn't matter because it is one pocket If the angle of a cue is 80 degrees and someone does a full masse, sure, it is a "downward" stroke but it is still "forward" because the tip of the cue isn't as steep of an angle as the butt end. You cant make the tip go backwards to have the cue ball go forwards. When striking cue ball, the tip initially is more out in front or forward but then you bring it back. So it is a forward, backward stroke, in a split instance. Who cares though? One pocket is where it is at! Hey doc, imagine if I get any good at one pocket and then imagine if one day at the DCC, I execute a full masse to make a ball in my pocket, ooooo hehe

 

[Alexonepockettrickshots]

Doc, don't look at it in a two dimensional plain. It's relative to the cue not the table. It's similar to why it's against the rules to strike the cue ball with the ferrule. It's a sideways movement.

Ok, we have now beat this to death.

PS. I'm back in N.O. if you Bille and I can get together some time

lol beat this to death, ok now I don't even ever want to masse anymore because of you guys! lol jk

 

[Alexonepockettrickshots]

and honestly, I have no clue about the physics of a masse. I can kind of just do it. But my remarks to Doc were me thinking about how I execute it and what the tip might do. I could of course be completely wrong and that is ok. I don't mind when I am incorrect as long as I learn after...what is correct. Thanks guys.

 

[Alexonepockettrickshots]

Well now we are arguing semantics. But this doesn't matter because it is one pocket If the angle of a cue is 80 degrees and someone does a full masse, sure, it is a "downward" stroke but it is still "forward" because the tip of the cue isn't as steep of an angle as the butt end. You cant make the tip go backwards to have the cue ball go forwards. When striking cue ball, the tip initially is more out in front or forward but then you bring it back. So it is a forward, backward stroke, in a split instance. Who cares though? One pocket is where it is at! Hey doc, imagine if I get any good at one pocket and then imagine if one day at the DCC, I execute a full masse to make a ball in my pocket, ooooo hehe

and they were going forward...in time! haha just kidding, have a nice day guys, off to start my new job.

 

[SactownTom]

Would it be acceptable to say, to be considered a "legal stroke", that "the bridge hand cannot be used to stroke the cue"?

 

[androd]

Would it be acceptable to say, to be considered a "legal stroke", that "the bridge hand cannot be used to stroke the cue"?

I use the other hand for this shot.
Rod.