Ball On Spot Safety Play

[wincardona]

That tells me that I am either crazy or just plain stupid. Or delusional. Or dishonest. Maybe the Claim Jumper has been right all this time.


Beard

And incidentally, FYI your last sentence absolutely discredits my statements.

Fred, I'm not disputing that there isnt a better way to shooting this shot, and yes you may know the better way. However, I am saying that its not a shot that I or any top player feels that the percentages are in their favor enough to shoot it. If my Statement problems you then you need to explain to me why, and then if I am at fault ill apologize.

By the way Fred...what exactly is your statement?

Dr Bill

 

[NH Steve]

<snip> The english used means nothing at that distance, All that is required, is a long, perfect, razor thin cut, from an awkward position, with near perfect speed control, and everything good to happen after that.... <snip>

A touch of inside is all you need

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

A touch of inside is all you need

Yes, but will it help you from here?

 

[NH Steve]

Yes, but will it help you from here?

View attachment 7985

Won't help me on that shot, but it sure seems to be all the rage

I won't cut at that unless the cue ball is at least a couple inches over and a little off the rail, too. I have never been a good 'cut-the-paint-off-the-edge-of-the-ball' player.

I'm starting to like your way of playing it...

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

I set up and shot these shots again on Thursday just to try them again from the 2 different cueball positions.

With the cueball approx. 2" from each rail, I would do nothing except bump it one-rail straight-ahead and leave it on my oppo's siderail with the cueball near the footrail.

I'm not cutting it in my pocket, I'm not banking it cross-corner either and I'm not banking it back up to my left. That's just the way I play it.

Don't lose sight of the fact that you are bridging on the corner-pocket framing here and shooting over the pocket. It ain't no sweet peach. Something else I discovered about this shot: I was shooting it on a table that had a aisleway behind me when I set it up and there were no lights above or behind me. The face of the cueball that I had to strike was dark even though the table had full-length florescent lighting. It made it tougher, giving me more reason to shoot the straight-ahead safety.



With the cueball out maybe 4"-5" (I didn't have a tape measure) from each rail all shots are exponentially easier. I had good success cutting the ball in my pocket from here but it would take a good bet and a real tough situation to pull that shot out in a game. In most cases I'd probably still just bump the ball one-rail straight-ahead and park the ball on my oppo's siderail (as above).



I'd be very interested in what the top players of today would shoot from this 2nd layout. I know some would shoot the cross-corner safe shot and there's nothing wrong with it if you like it.

Dennis

 

[fred bentivegna]

Fred, I'm not disputing that there isnt a better way to shooting this shot, and yes you may know the better way. However, I am saying that its not a shot that I or any top player feels that the percentages are in their favor enough to shoot it. If my Statement problems you then you need to explain to me why, and then if I am at fault ill apologize.

By the way Fred...what exactly is your statement?

Dr Bill

Better, worse, that is all relative.If you know how to shoot it and you are able to execute what you know, than that becomes the better way.

Think back to your match with Shane VB. I watched him execute shots to his pocket that I (and many other people, including good players) was certain were stiffs. Two-railers and safe, from almost any position on the table. He kept hitting them perfectly over and over.

I determined that Shane must have played himself 1ball 1pkt for hours and hours, and each time certain positions presented themselves, he shot the shot over and over until he developed a feel or a "system" for it.

I experimented on my own pool table with some of those shots, shots that I usually avoided playing because of the difficulty (what I thought) of execution. I started playing around with them, and before long I came upon solutions that made some of those shots suddenly become playable. i was pleasantly surprised. Shows you that one can always learn something new.

Here is a tid-bit for the masses:
My system on the spot shot cut-shot involves making the cue ball as "light," or having as little linear force on it, as possible. This allows the cue ball to go "thru" the object ball with a minimum of carom -- carom that could take you into the opposite pocket.

Anybody want more you will have to come to my basement.

Beard

 

[wincardona]

Better, worse, that is all relative.If you know how to shoot it and you are able to execute what you know, than that becomes the better way.

Think back to your match with Shane VB. I watched him execute shots to his pocket that I (and many other people, including good players) was certain were stiffs. Two-railers and safe, from almost any position on the table. He kept hitting them perfectly over and over.

I determined that Shane must have played himself 1ball 1pkt for hours and hours, and each time certain positions presented themselves, he shot the shot over and over until he developed a feel or a "system" for it.

I experimented on my own pool table with some of those shots, shots that I usually avoided playing because of the difficulty (what I thought) of execution. I started playing around with them, and before long I came upon solutions that made some of those shots suddenly become playable. i was pleasantly surprised. Shows you that one can always learn something new.

Here is a tid-bit for the masses:
My system on the spot shot cut-shot involves making the cue ball as "light," or having as little linear force on it, as possible. This allows the cue ball to go "thru" the object ball with a minimum of carom -- carom that could take you into the opposite pocket.

Anybody want more you will have to come to my basement.

Beard

Not necessarily so, shooting a shot the way you know how to shoot it may be the best way but doesn't have to be. All of us shoot certain shots well but if we were taught a better way to shoot those shots..if there is a better way....then that would be the better way. My point is when shooting certain shots , what works best for us may not be the best way for us to shoot the shot, if we were taught a better

Change is an acceptable term in today's world. Even for stubborn Italians. :sorry

Dr. Bill

 

[fred bentivegna]

Not necessarily so, shooting a shot the way you know how to shoot it may be the best way but doesn't have to be. All of us shoot certain shots well but if we were taught a better way to shoot those shots..if there is a better way....then that would be the better way. My point is when shooting certain shots , what works best for us may not be the best way for us to shoot the shot, if we were taught a better

Change is an acceptable term in today's world. Even for stubborn Italians. :sorry

Dr. Bill

Do you realize, if you read what you said carefully, that you are making my point exactly!

Beard

 

[wincardona]

Do you realize, if you read what you said carefully, that you are making my point exactly!

Beard

You confused me when you said "bettter or worse is all relative. If you know how to ececute what you know that's the best way"

I interpreted that as shooting a shot perfectly the way you know how to shoot it. However of there's a better way to shoot it then if taught then that would be the better way. If I'm wrong then I'm confused with what you said. Which is really no surprise to me, meaning that I often misinterpret things.

Dr.Bill

 

[fred bentivegna]

You confused me when you said "bettter or worse is all relative. If you know how to ececute what you know that's the best way"

I interpreted that as shooting a shot perfectly the way you know how to shoot it. However of there's a better way to shoot it then if taught then that would be the better way. If I'm wrong then I'm confused with what you said. Which is really no surprise to me, meaning that I often misinterpret things.

Dr.Bill

When I said: "better or worse is all relative. If you know how to execute what you know, that's the best way." I could have gone on to say what you said,"However, if there's a better way to shoot it, then if taught that, than that would be the better way." But I thought that was obvious.

Beard

 

[wincardona]

I set up and shot these shots again on Thursday just to try them again from the 2 different cueball positions.

With the cueball approx. 2" from each rail, I would do nothing except bump it one-rail straight-ahead and leave it on my oppo's siderail with the cueball near the footrail.

I'm not cutting it in my pocket, I'm not banking it cross-corner either and I'm not banking it back up to my left. That's just the way I play it.

Don't lose sight of the fact that you are bridging on the corner-pocket framing here and shooting over the pocket. It ain't no sweet peach. Something else I discovered about this shot: I was shooting it on a table that had a aisleway behind me when I set it up and there were no lights above or behind me. The face of the cueball that I had to strike was dark even though the table had full-length florescent lighting. It made it tougher, giving me more reason to shoot the straight-ahead safety.

View attachment 7988

With the cueball out maybe 4"-5" (I didn't have a tape measure) from each rail all shots are exponentially easier. I had good success cutting the ball in my pocket from here but it would take a good bet and a real tough situation to pull that shot out in a game. In most cases I'd probably still just bump the ball one-rail straight-ahead and park the ball on my oppo's siderail (as above).

View attachment 7987

I'd be very interested in what the top players of today would shoot from this 2nd layout. I know some would shoot the cross-corner safe shot and there's nothing wrong with it if you like it.

Dennis

I think your findings on the options for this position and how you shoot them is pretty much spot on. You also mentioned about shooting over the corner pocket framing with the shot and how it affects the bridging with the shot, and again you are correct. I don't play much on Gold Crowns any more mostly on Diamonds, however, on Diamonds the corner pocket framing is level with the rail, unlike Gold Crowns where the framing is elevated. I have always found it awkward shooting over the pockets on the Gold Crown table and it certainly bothered me when I played Melrose.

About your question on how a player would shoot the shot in the 2nd. diagram. Well, after shooting it in an actual high stakes match I have concluded that I would shoot it the same way you shoot it. I certainly didn't like the results that I got shooting it against Melrose in Fl, but I knew from the position of the cue ball (2" from the pocket) that I was stretching the boundary of my ability with the accuracy of the shot. Like I mentioned earlier that we must of been moving 30 minutes with the one ball sorta wore on my patience and I made a poor decision when I opted to cross cut the shot for a bank toward my pocket. Too tough of a hit for a 69 year old player (at least this one) I hope that I still have the skills to hit the shot accurately from 6" out from the pocket, 2" out didn't work.

Dr. Bill

 

[Tom Wirth]

I once learned something from Grady about shooting out of the corner on Gold Crowns. I'm sure some of you have seen him do this. When that raised pocket liner got in the way he would get a paper towel and fold it up to make an added support for his bridge. I've tried it and it works very well for me as long as I use one of those brown towels. The white ones seemed to distract me a bit. Now I keep a swatch of table cloth in my case for that situation.

Tom

 

[bstroud]

I once learned something from Grady about shooting out of the corner on Gold Crowns. I'm sure some of you have seen him do this. When that raised pocket liner got in the way he would get a paper towel and fold it up to make an added support for his bridge. I've tried it and it works very well for me as long as I use one of those brown towels. The white ones seemed to distract me a bit. Now I keep a swatch of table cloth in my case for that situation.

Tom

This is why the shot is different on a Diamond and a GC.

Bill S.

 

[lll]

I once learned something from Grady about shooting out of the corner on Gold Crowns. I'm sure some of you have seen him do this. When that raised pocket liner got in the way he would get a paper towel and fold it up to make an added support for his bridge. I've tried it and it works very well for me as long as I use one of those brown towels. The white ones seemed to distract me a bit. Now I keep a swatch of table cloth in my case for that situation.

Tom

tom
you might want to check out this thread
http://www.onepocket.org/forum/showthread.php?t=5942&highlight=grady
here is a pic of grady doing just that

 

[One pocket Smitty]

I carry a piece of thin leather in my case for just this problem. You can go to a auto upholstery shop and get a piece with no problem. --Smitty

 

[Tom Wirth]

tom
you might want to check out this thread
http://www.onepocket.org/forum/showthread.php?t=5942&highlight=grady
here is a pic of grady doing just that
View attachment 8001

Larry, You are amazing!
You are always right on top of things. Good job.

Tom

 

[SJDinPHX]

I experimented on my own pool table with some of those shots, shots that I usually avoided playing because of the difficulty (what I thought) of execution. I started playing around with them, and before long I came upon solutions that made some of those shots suddenly become playable. i was pleasantly surprised.<--Yes, those are the shots I've been playing routinely, since age 12 !......

Shows you that one can always learn something new.<--Thats true ! But I thought YOU already knew EVERYTHING ?..Now I'm confused

Here is a tid-bit for the masses:
My system on the spot shot cut-shot involves making the cue ball as "light," or having as little linear force on it, as possible. This allows the cue ball to go "thru" the object ball with a minimum of carom -- carom that could take you into the opposite pocket.

Anybody want more you will have to come to my basement.

Beard

Yeah ! I've always known ya had to "lighten the old rock" on those thin cuts...I prefer about 2-3 grams--How about you ?.....Also, if I may ask, do you use CTE-Pro 1, Ghost ball, or TOI, on those really 'tough' cuts ?

SuperDuck

PS..I'd sure like to learn more Mr. B...d, but I don't know about going into your basement..Do you have anthrax down there ?.

 

[bstroud]

Shot came up today playing a guy 10 to 6.

I played the safety and won the game.

If I had been playing even I would have cut the ball in.

Not necessary with a weaker player.

Bill S.

 

[SJDinPHX]

Shot came up today playing a guy 10 to 6.

I played the safety and won the game.

If I had been playing even I would have cut the ball in.

Not necessary with a weaker player.

Bill S.

There will always be extenuating circumstances Bill !...Playing a much weaker player, is certainly one of them !...Unless stated otherwise , I think we should always assume the WWYD offerings, are among equally skilled, upper level players...All the better for a good learning experience...Otherwise, there would be way to many variables...Don't you agree ???

PS..I've noticed, that often the students will come up with better solutions, than say the B...d, or C....y D....s !

 

[bstroud]

Dick,

For educational purposes I know you are right. I try to take that approach in the WWYD scenarios but sometimes the " you are what you are" forces get the better of me.

Bill S.