Alex v. Scott: The Good, the Bad, and the ...

[SJDinPHX]

Dear Pesimism and Negativity Breath,

There is no denying many of todays pool player's still operate somewhat as you described...But the numbers of the 'Secret Society' wannabe's and their chosen lifestyle, are shrinking faster than you think..!.. Also, there will always be a certain number of 'compulsive' gambler's in any field of endeavor...Look how much I lost to you in football bets last year @ssh*le ?

Sure, action and gambling may always be a big part of pool, as long as thats ALL there is !...I see a new breed of player, in many of the new young guys..who at least HOPE for a better lifestyle, and may be willing to sacrifice a little to achieve it..To say they are ALL 'SS' oriented is not true anymore..And I say those guys deserve a fighting chance at a successful way to earn a decent living, at a game they love...The one's you depict, who don't give a sh*t about anything, and like the status quo, will drop by the wayside eventually !

The Duck <--Is 98% sure doing NOTHING, has been proven NOT to work, 100% of the time !...

 

[lfigueroa]

Lou, the pool industry has constantly been obsessed with cleaning up its image in an attempt to attract sponsors. You can see this manifested in the pool magazines, on AZ Billiards, on onepocket.org, and even on this thread. I chalk up your denial of the obvious to your penchant for playing contrarian games.

And, I find it highly amusing that someone from St. Louis, home of T.S. Eliot, does not understand why the metaphor "of laughing off" is appropriate to describe corporate America's refusal to take seriously the pool industry's pleas for sponsorship. Furthermore, as someone who has worked in the advertising industry, I can easily see the reaction among the marketing execs when some industry with a tarnished image like pool comes a courting for sponsorship.

Again, you make unsubstantiated assertions: “the pool industry has been constantly obsessed with cleaning up its image in an attempt to attract sponsors.” Yet you offer no evidence. To that point I would like to mention the “obvious” (a word you seem to favor) in that those of us here “on AZ Billiards, on onepocket.org, and even in this thread” are, generally speaking, not part of the “pool industry.”

You would have to admit that you don’t know me much (at all), so you have little to no grounds for arguing I have/had a penchant for anything. St. Louis is not my home town, though I am aware that TS Elliot is from here (there’s a bronze bust of him in my neighborhood just a few blocks away), but so what? (BTW, my background is PR and, way back when, I helped Greg get in contact with the Harrah's execs to make the DCC and Tunica happen.)

As far as I can see... you come here with vague assertions and arguments, squadoush to support them, and no first hand knowledge of anything. It's not much of a discussion if you're just going to flail your arms around in the air.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Actually these guys Are....''on the job'' like your said, and are front as representatives of our sport. Allot are there for Only the money, which is an inherent trait of most good pool players, but there are some that dressed great. Sigel, Liscotti, Diliberto, Rempe and Margo, Ronnie Allen and others. If they all made that extra effort and made sure they dressed to the tens...........The Women Do, gee I wonder Why? Cloths make the man is an old expression, but there's allot of truth to that. Like a new car making you and your friends feel good, dressing and looking sharp in your profession also supports it and portrays it the way it should appear to others. When it looks good it in turn, makes others also feel good.

It seems that so many cannot grasp that how they act and dress at an event impacts the public’s perception of the game and how, when someone in a hotel lobby looks around and sees everyone dressed like the homeless, and asks, “What’s going on?” and the answer is “a pool tournament” major damage to the image of the game is done.

Same with guys on an internet stream. It’s a shame the players themselves, as well as so many fans, don’t realize that that kind of imagery condemns pool to the ghetto in the minds of so many forever. It also has an influence on younger players when they sit at their computers and see one of their pool heroes dressed like a thug from the hood. Corporations laughing off pool? No. Pool can’t even get in the front door to be laughed off in the first place.

Lou Figueroa

 

[tylerdurden]

The problem goes far beyond "so many not being able to grasp" your thought though. Even if they did grasp it, which I agree with you in that they don't seem to, they would still do nothing about it. It is truly beyond hopeless. It is one thing when people are talking about ways to solve a problem, it is entirely another when people don't even know what the problem is, and even if they did, would not do anything about it.

 

[Island Drive]

It seems that so many cannot grasp that how they act and dress at an event impacts the public’s perception of the game and how, when someone in a hotel lobby looks around and sees everyone dressed like the homeless, and asks, “What’s going on?” and the answer is “a pool tournament” major damage to the image of the game is done.

Same with guys on an internet stream. It’s a shame the players themselves, as well as so many fans, don’t realize that that kind of imagery condemns pool to the ghetto in the minds of so many forever. It also has an influence on younger players when they sit at their computers and see one of their pool heroes dressed like a thug from the hood. Corporations laughing off pool? No. Pool can’t even get in the front door to be laughed off in the first place.

Lou Figueroa

If you've ever read the book Tipping Point it deals indirectly/directly about this matter. In it there was talk about the drive thru the dilapadated, broken window, graffiti/tagged neighborhoods of NY city. Next the mayor proceeded to get rid of that look and it ''changed'' the crime rate dramatically and helped people respect others more and their property and the look changed the city for the better. That was their tipping point to get things back on track. When I talked with Greg Sullivan the Tue. before play started in the lobby of the Horseshoe casino, before we got together I saw a guy checking in with his butt cheeks showing with all his cloths in a plastic grocery bad, SCREAMED OUT TO ME, WHAT A SLOB....................his buddy was the same, and the gal, well monkey see....w/o the butt cheek statement. There's a time and a place, this was neither, the Horseshoe had class. But there are a ton of broke dick pool players out their only concerned with the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ which is an inherant aspect of our game here in the US. If he just pulled up his pants, he would of looked 100% better.

 

[onepockethacker]

If you've ever read the book Tipping Point it deals indirectly/directly about this matter. In it there was talk about the drive thru the dilapadated, broken window, graffiti/tagged neighborhoods of NY city. Next the mayor proceeded to get rid of that look and it ''changed'' the crime rate dramatically and helped people respect others more and their property and the look changed the city for the better. That was their tipping point to get things back on track. When I talked with Greg Sullivan the Tue. before play started in the lobby of the Horseshoe casino, before we got together I saw a guy checking in with his butt cheeks showing with all his cloths in a plastic grocery bad, SCREAMED OUT TO ME, WHAT A SLOB....................his buddy was the same, and the gal, well monkey see....w/o the butt cheek statement. There's a time and a place, this was neither, the Horseshoe had class. But there are a ton of broke dick pool players out their only concerned with the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ which is an inherant aspect of our game here in the US. If he just pulled up his pants, he would of looked 100% better.

Good interesting post, BUT it comes back to one thing and one thing only...Pool in this country has no MAYOR to clean it up!! There is ZERO leadership. The players are not going to clean up their act without leadership showing them why and the big picture. The only players that try to take leadership are ALWAYS the same cliques that are only looking out for themselves... Everyone on here can talk until they turn blue in the frigging face about how the players are dressing and about how you need to market one game etc. etc. etc. Until you have ONE organization in charge with a board made up highly distinguished members that are looking at the big picture everyone can just save their breath. SOMEBODY on this forum please talk to Greg Sullivan about this.. PETIE are you out there listening? Once you have that you implement dress codes, drug testing etc. etc....

 

[jrhendy]

Tournament Attire

Tournament Attire

Twenty or so years years ago at a tournament at Hard Times, Bellflower, Baby Ray Galvez showed up on Friday,before the tournament, in a pair of those loud baggy gym pants that we're just coming into style.

I was teasing him and said "I sure wish I had a pair of those". Jay Helfert asked me if I would wear them if I did. I said "Sure".

Next morning, before the tournament, Jay shows up with a bag from Gold's Gym and inside were a pair of white pants with bright pink and lime green designs that said "Iron Warrior" on them.

I wore those pants all weekend and people who did not know the story thought I was a strange fellow indeed.

Come to think of it, I guess I am.

 

[SJDinPHX]

Good interesting post, BUT it comes back to one thing and one thing only...Pool in this country has no MAYOR to clean it up!! There is ZERO leadership. The players are not going to clean up their act without leadership showing them why and the big picture. The only players that try to take leadership are ALWAYS the same cliques that are only looking out for themselves... Everyone on here can talk until they turn blue in the frigging face about how the players are dressing and about how you need to market one game etc. etc. etc. Until you have ONE organization in charge with a board made up highly distinguished members that are looking at the big picture everyone can just save their breath. SOMEBODY on this forum please talk to Greg Sullivan about this.. PETIE are you out there listening? Once you have that you implement dress codes, drug testing etc. etc.<--Totally agree..A Professional, well run organization, is even MORE important than what "ONE"game we present !--But talk about a huge, thankless task...It would be hard to find someone smart and knowledgable enough, (like Greg or Mark) that would want to take it on !

Hacker, for a change, we seem to be on the same side of the fence...Which leads me to believe, you must have missed post #88..

http://www.onepocket.org/forum/showpost.php?p=108507&postcount=88

PS..Neat story John..But, do you STILL wear them ???...

 

[onepockethacker]

Hacker, for a change, we seem to be on the same side of the fence...Which leads me to believe, you must have missed post #88..

http://www.onepocket.org/forum/showpost.php?p=108507&postcount=88

PS..Neat story John..But, do you STILL wear them ???...

Not at all, I read your post and agree but trying to get pool players to change without leadership is like putting the cart in front of the horse. sad but true. I have a feeling if someone approached greg and mark about this they might be more receptive than people think. You need someone that would run it like Roger Goodell runs the NFL no bullshit policy.. (unfortunately whoever is in charge of pool isn't getting Goodell's salary) LOL drug testing, dress code, cheaters and dumpers suspended or barred. If people REALLY want to clean it up then that's how you do it. No more buddy systems. Shannon Daulton is friends with NASCAR driverTony Stewart, Michael Jordan likes pool, Pat Riley, alot of actors like pool. If you clean up the sport you could use these type of people to promote pool, but in the present state none of those people want to be associated with pool really.

 

[Island Drive]

Twenty or so years years ago at a tournament at Hard Times, Bellflower, Baby Ray Galvez showed up on Friday,before the tournament, in a pair of those loud baggy gym pants that we're just coming into style.

I was teasing him and said "I sure wish I had a pair of those". Jay Helfert asked me if I would wear them if I did. I said "Sure".

Next morning, before the tournament, Jay shows up with a bag from Gold's Gym and inside were a pair of white pants with bright pink and lime green designs that said "Iron Warrior" on them.

I wore those pants all weekend and people who did not know the story thought I was a strange fellow indeed.

Come to think of it, I guess I am.

Oh that's just GREAT, because from Now ON;

When I think of pink I always thought of Bugs when I saw em in his pink outfit with a pink hat, but will HAVE to add you to my thoughts when I think of Rucker and pink :O....

Please supply us with that photo for proof. Because I know your too smart to throw away a new pair of pants. I would be nice, once in my life see you look like a jerk. Cause you sure don't have the DNA to ever be one. You musta been pretty spunky in those days to wear That. Come to think of it. Might be cool to have a one pocket tournament, where everyone one has to dress up in Nice cloths, but look like a clown. Now I'd pay to watch/listen to that commentary, only for one rack tho .

 

[SJDinPHX]

Not at all, I read your post and agree but trying to get pool players to change without leadership is like putting the cart in front of the horse. sad but true. I have a feeling if someone approached greg and mark about this they might be more receptive than people think. You need someone that would run it like Roger Goodell runs the NFL no bullshit policy.. (unfortunately whoever is in charge of pool isn't getting Goodell's salary) LOL drug testing, dress code, cheaters and dumpers suspended or barred. If people REALLY want to clean it up then that's how you do it. No more buddy systems. Shannon Daulton is friends with NASCAR driverTony Stewart, Michael Jordan likes pool, Pat Riley, alot of actors like pool. <--Joe Rogan loves pool too, but not enough to give up his very lucrative carreer..We're lucky to see him a few times a year ! If you clean up the sport you could use these type of people to promote pool, but in the present state none of those people want to be associated with pool really.

I think you may be missing something Hacker !..We have NO cart, and NO horse...To think that Mark, Greg, or Jay Helfert (another good choice) would be interested, is a pretty big stretch..They are all successful businessmen, and I don't think any one of them could, or would, find the time to take on the resposibility of being a "Roger Goodell" to pool !

Mark, for instance, has let it be known he does not even want the U.S. Open 9 Ball event, (should Barry default on it, as may happen this year) And Greg is up to his neck in his mfg. operation, and is still trying to set up even more major tournaments, to compliment DCC and Tunica !

I don't know (but I could find out) who is behind 'Bonus Ball', but he appears to love the game, and have fairly deep pockets..We need someone like him, (almost a philanthropist)..to get were we are trying to go with pool..I hope, for his sake, BB works out..as I don't think he'll be up for another run at pool, any time soon !

PS..Demonhro...I also notice Mr.BB dresses his player's pretty sporty too ! ...I think Tom Wirth's response (post#9) to you, was right on ! And, it applies to ANYONE who doesn't think decent clothing, and language are important !..This especially includes m' bud's Lenny & RBL, both of which are 'brain transplant' material

 

[lfigueroa]

If you've ever read the book Tipping Point it deals indirectly/directly about this matter. In it there was talk about the drive thru the dilapadated, broken window, graffiti/tagged neighborhoods of NY city. Next the mayor proceeded to get rid of that look and it ''changed'' the crime rate dramatically and helped people respect others more and their property and the look changed the city for the better. That was their tipping point to get things back on track. When I talked with Greg Sullivan the Tue. before play started in the lobby of the Horseshoe casino, before we got together I saw a guy checking in with his butt cheeks showing with all his cloths in a plastic grocery bad, SCREAMED OUT TO ME, WHAT A SLOB....................his buddy was the same, and the gal, well monkey see....w/o the butt cheek statement. There's a time and a place, this was neither, the Horseshoe had class. But there are a ton of broke dick pool players out their only concerned with the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ which is an inherant aspect of our game here in the US. If he just pulled up his pants, he would of looked 100% better.

I haven't read that book but suspect you're speaking of The Broken Window Theory that Giuliani implemented in NYC back in the 90's. As it applies to pool, I agree.

In a nutshell the theory is that small things -- like broken windows in a neighborhood -- sends the message that the community has a lack of informal social control. It's not the actual broken window that's important, but the message people receive from the broken window. Groups that have a strong sense of cohesion will fix broken windows and assert social responsibility.

Small things, like how we dress, sends signals too as to what we, as a group, are willing to put up with, the type of behavior we'll tolerate, and whether we're willing to police ourselves.

I guess right about now we're willing to put up with just about anything, will tolerate just about anything, and have zero will to police ourselves.

Lou Figueroa

 

[vapros]

I'm glad to see everyone having a good time here, and without bloodshed. It's very refreshing

As to the topic - this is about as dead a horse as I ever saw. Step up and take a swing at him. :frus

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

PS..Demonhro...I also notice Mr.BB dresses his player's pretty sporty too ! ...I think Tom Wirth's response (post#9) to you, was right on ! And, it applies to ANYONE who doesn't think decent clothing, and language are important !..This especially includes m' bud's Lenny & RBL, both of which are 'brain transplant' material

Dear DuckBreath,

I happen to think that demonrho (the r goes in front of the h moron), has one of the only sane responses in this thread, notwithstanding my own of course. Trade on the "outlaw" aspect of pool. Women love "bad boys", kids want to be one, men all think they were one, it should makes millions for someone. Problem with that is it won't last long before the public gets tired of it too. On the other hand, didn't someone once say that nobody ever went busted underestimating the stupidity of the American public or something like that?

P.S. Lenny & I don't appreciate you making fun of our brains.

Cowboy "2% sure I'm right, again" Dennis

 

[SJDinPHX]

P.S. Lenny & I don't appreciate you making fun of our brains.

Cowboy "2% sure I'm right, again" Dennis

Chances of a successful Brain Transplant..

Cowboy Denise..2%
Lenny...98%

PS..I found something you guy's will like...Guess which ones yours ?

View attachment 7858
.................................................................................View attachment 7859

 

[Tom Wirth]

Thanks for that post SJD.
The first one made me lose my lunch. The second made me hungry again.

Tom

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

Chances of a successful Brain Transplant..

Secret Society...2%
Cowboy Denise & Lenny...98%

PS..I found something you guy's will like...Guess which ones yours ?


.................................................................................

Well Duckbrain, you're finally right about something...Lenny & I would be fighting over these two. Of course, I do have pepper spray.

P.S. I'd have to guess I'm the top one.

Cowboy "100% right 100% of the time when dealing with Ducks" Dennis

 

[Don Smith]

Well, it's good to see the real pool intellect show in these most recent posts.

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

Dear Pesimism and Negativity Breath,

There is no denying many of todays pool player's still operate somewhat as you described Many??? Somewhat??? Name 10 in the top 50 that don't....But the numbers of the 'Secret Society' wannabe's and their chosen lifestyle, are shrinking faster than you think..!Try getting out to the poolroom you idiot... Also, there will always be a certain number of 'compulsive' gambler's in any field of endeavor...Look how much I lost to you in football bets last year @ssh*le ?You're stuck $4,365,294 and have paid off $53.45, that's not very compulsive.

Sure, action and gambling may always be a big part of pool, as long as thats ALL there is !That is all there is you imbecile....I see a new breed of player, in many of the new young guys..who at least HOPE for a better lifestyle, and may be willing to sacrifice a little to achieve it.Let them get a job at McDonalds..To say they are ALL 'SS' oriented is not true anymore..And I say those guys deserve a fighting chance at a successful way to earn a decent living, at a game they love."Deserve's" got nothing to do with it...The one's you depict, who don't give a sh*t about anything, and like the status quo, will drop by the wayside eventually !Don't hold your duckbreath, Duckbreath

The Duck <--Is 98% sure doing NOTHING, has been proven NOT to work, 100% of the time !...

I think it's about time for someone to send a letter to major so-called "corporate sponsors" and inquire as to their "character clauses" and "morals clauses" and any other other clauses that might cause these promoters to reject a poolplayer for cause. I think I'll do it (unless I get drunk and forget). If I should remember and do it I will post the results here.

Cowboy "100% sure he'll find no takers" Dennis

 

[demonrho]

Again, you make unsubstantiated assertions: “the pool industry has been constantly obsessed with cleaning up its image in an attempt to attract sponsors.” ...
Lou Figueroa

So all that concern in the billiard magazines about pool's image, about making pool acceptable, about trying to make pool an Olympic sport, about cleaning up pool for ESPN, about attracting sponsors did not happen because you say it did not happen? Can't you just admit that your well known contrarian proclivities are clouding your reason? And the "so what about T.S. Eliot" was to contrast your inability to understand simple metaphor. It's amazing that someone like you who has such insight at the gambling and tournament level of pool can be so clueless about other levels of the pool scene.