I am either a...

[SJDinPHX]

I'll be the first to say, I don't see anything wrong with a pool player bragging a bit, after all we spend a lot of time telling everyone how BAD we play in order to get a good game.

But that's the funny part. When we could play, we would say we can't play. When we can't play now, we tell everyone how good we did play.

And as with all of being human (I think), there are some of us, that really like to brag, some of us that brag every now and then, and then some of us that have to be coaxed into even spitting anything that even resembles a brag.

Going even further, there are some people that have the talent to really brag it up, but make us like it, others that brag it up and make us want to puke. So there is a certain "way" of bragging that makes the excessive bragger come across as enjoyable, then again, he could also come across as extremely annoying.

Now the part that confounds me is the ones that will never admit to losing at anything. I believe that the only time you can say you "beat" someone, is if you have played them at LEAST several times and you came out on top. All these brags where someone said they beat someone 1 time, I feel should have a asterisk next to it and really doesn't tell us anything. I mean it could have been a race to 3, or the guy could have been drunk off his ass, or they could have had one arm in a sling, or it could have been for 10 bucks, or they could have been trying to lay down a lemon in hopes of busting you, but then they figured out that was a waste of time and they quit or you quit.

Now where have I heard this train of thought before....Greg, do you realize you would be asking at least two people (not mentioning any names) to completely WEAR OUT their asterisk button on their keyboard...Also thats the one with the '8' on it...They would at least have to get a new keyboard, assuming their computer survived the "asterisk assault"..:frus :frus

PS, the Duck beat everyone he ever played, at marbles.."*"

 

[petie]

i once played 8 ball partners on a 2-1/2 x 5 in the Ally Cat Lounge in Indianapolis, IN with aBLIND partner and won. My partner could accept coaching and got to touch the cue ball prior to shooting. He ran 3 and out. No Joke.

 

[androd]

i once played 8 ball partners on a 2-1/2 x 5 in the Ally Cat Lounge in Indianapolis, IN with aBLIND partner and won. My partner could accept coaching and got to touch the cue ball prior to shooting. He ran 3 and out. No Joke.

Good Eye. :sorry
Rod.

 

[fred bentivegna]

Better add one more to the asterisk war

Better add one more to the asterisk war

Now where have I heard this train of thought before..:..Greg, do you realize you would be asking at least two people (not mentioning any names) to completely WEAR OUT their asterisk button on their keyboard...Also thats the one with the '8' on it...They would at least have to get a new keyboard, assuming their computer survived the "asterisk assault"..:

PS, the Duck beat everyone he ever played, at marbles.."*"

There is an old Anatidae Boy, who at an increasingly alarming rate, keeps "leaking" in leaps and bounds, more and more of his beats and bouts. This new practice has not gone unnoticed my some, myself included. :heh Poor Surfer Rod has had his misfortunes with the aforementioned Duckling brought forth yet again (for the umpteenth time). I can only surmise that when one's roster is short, repeaters are inevitable.
Thank God, I have no such problem.:sorry

Beard

 

[SJDinPHX]

How rude...Leaving out the most pertinent, portion of Greg's passionate, pontification..

=CaiRed..Now the part that confounds me is the ones that will never admit to losing at anything. I believe that the only time you can say you "beat" someone, is if you have played them at LEAST several times and you came out on top. All these brags where someone said they beat someone 1 time, I feel should have a asterisk next to it and really doesn't tell us anything. I mean it could have been a race to 3, or the guy could have been drunk off his ass, or they could have had one arm in a sling, or it could have been for 10 bucks, or they could have been trying to lay down a lemon in hopes of busting you, but then they figured out that was a waste of time and they quit or you quit.

Which may have lead to your indelicate and devisive, diatribe...Heh,heh..

PS..Greg, did you copy that "verbatim", from some malcontent's prior, pointed, pontification..sure looks familiar..
To certain members of the forum, it could cause great mental anguish, and maybe epid-sk-...Well, you know..:sorry

 

[wincardona]

You do have to give Bill credit in that department. I have never seen anyone in all of my time on the Internet (we're talking about 18 or so years) that has been able to just brush off whatever anyone ever says to him and just continue on with the same matter of fact bragging, not missing a beat.

And we're talking some nasty attacks... didn't even seem to make his heart rate go up one iota. He is one cool dude Or quite possibly, he's fooling all of us and he has everyone on ignore except himself.

Greg, you're one funny geek, and yes you amuse me too. Life today for me would be really boring if I didn't have the pleasure of reading all these post, it's actually a reason for me to get up early. Nothing is better than to start the day with a good chuckle,:lol and I got my fix today.

Billy I.

 

[Frank Almanza]

Frank, Surely you remember when I gave you the 5,6,7,8,9 and all the breaks, and beat you for $650,000
at $25,000/$50,000 a game...It was in San Jose, back in 1935, I think...Things get a little sketchy at times...Can
you fill me in on the details..?... I am suffering from terminal C.R.S.(Can't Remember Shit) but I recall it like it was yesterday, don't you ?...

PS..Sound familiar Frank ?... It is ALL pool player's true [sic] life story. (with a ghost writer, of course)...Thats why I'm never going to write a book...No one would believe how much money I won, while NEVER, ever booking a loser ...

I remember it like it was yesterday. You can't officially put me on your beat list because I was just laying out a little bit of seed money waiting for a bigger bet. I demand to be erased from your list.

 

[SJDinPHX]

I remember it like it was yesterday. You can't officially put me on your beat list because I was just laying out a little bit of seed money waiting for a bigger bet. I demand to be erased from your list.

Consider it done !..:sorry ...I surely didn't mean to cause any epiderm-ah, er, ski-well, ah, problems..)

PS..I only had two on my b--t list...You and Surfer Rod...You just cut me by 50%..:frus

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

Someone needs to start an official "beat List" thread so that we can compare who beat who. My beat list is a very silent one, but I do get offended when I appear on a list that is untrue.

That's been done Frank, back in March 2011, some ground rules were established too.

http://onepocket.org/forum/showthread.php?t=5038&highlight=beat+lists


P.S. If anyone ever starts a "Beaten By" list I will list a few, I really remember the losses more than the wins. It's not easy to forget asking someone who has you stuck to double or triple the bet and them saying "no" and then you quitting and going home. The wins don't mean much to me, everybody (both girls, one midget & Quad) that I ever beat probably beat me back also.
Dennis

 

[CaliRed]

...What the great Dizzy Dean once said about bragging...

Beard

By the way, Greg. I will leave it up to you as to whether or not I should put an asterisk next to your name on my b... list.

No, Freddy... here's what we lay down on that one. We played for 40 days and 40 nights, I started weighing in at a svelte 200. I left weighing in at a deathly 125.3. You were freshly shaven (you were known back then as Freddy "Babyface" Vigna and you became Freddy The Beard when all was said and done.

Now as far as the bet goes... let's let the rumors fly on about how it was for 10k a game playing rack and a half banks (22 balls and 1 that was sawed in half, you and I were the only one I ever saw that could bank that ball), but in your next book, you can let the pussy out of the bag and confirm that it was $5 a game and we both were on our case 20. And that we paid after every game. It became a matter of pride and neither of us wanted to lose ( or is that loose)

I'll let you finish up the story on how we paid for time

Freddy you're too good of a story teller, you can brag whenever you want. You have a gift and a memory and it's people like you give pool a distinct flavor, a particular one I enjoy sampling. Besides, you do throw in that you get "strummed" once in a while.

SO when the DUck is coming down on you, you just tell him about that month and half you locked horns with that Midwestern/Pacific NW/Ft.Lauderdale/Atlanta guy... ask him if he ever had one those sessions. I'll bring the crickets:lol

 

[KindlyOleUncleDave]

Time to kill this thread

Time to kill this thread

So here I am ....

Recall hearing of 2 1/2 x 5 footers being up in Oregon in the mid 70s.

Walked into a Pizza joint with a bar in Walllace, California, about 1988 and found a slate-bed 3 x 6 big ball table. They did not gamble however.

SO .... how have I done?

 

[fred bentivegna]

I can't believe...

I can't believe...

...that I am so old, that only Petie and I can recall playing on 2 1/2 x 5's.


Beard

 

[Ken_4fun]

...that I am so old, that only Petie and I can recall playing on 2 1/2 x 5's.


Beard

The balls were mostly round werent they at that time? :lol

All kidding aside, I have never heard of or seen one.

Ken

 

[petie]

...that I am so old, that only Petie and I can recall playing on 2 1/2 x 5's.


Beard

Old R us. When bars first started having pool tables, they were bumper pool tables which were about that size becuase the bars had been built before a table was contemplated and therefore there was little room for one. This actually started before I could get into a bar but I was aware of it through my older brother. That fad didn't last long until most of the bumper pool tables were replaced by pocket pool tables and they made some of them incredibly small. I used to practice jacked up so I would not get sharked by the walls and pillars in the bars. I thought maybe Valley in Bay City, MI made the first coin op tables but I saw a Kling in Warroad, MN on a business trip. Now Klings were old tables.

 

[petie]

Good Eye. :sorry
Rod.

He didn't have a good eye.

 

[Eddie Robin]

It's understood you have to find a way out!

It's understood you have to find a way out!


Freddie,

Even the regular model Harold Worst tables were extra heavy compared to other brands of the same size but the H.W. Pro-Models at the Golden 8-Ball were even heavier because of the extra thick slates. All slate substitutes including “slateen” (as on the Brunswick Mach 1 table) are around 50% the weight of real slate and so you guys are quite obviously mistaken. Don't think I'll need to provide additional photos of the Harold Worst slates for the increased weight of the H.W. tables is sufficient proof.

It's understood you have to find a way out for it's no fun getting caught in so many lies but you kinda forced my to finally start defending myself. I even tried to back off once again but here you go again. The worse part is that you drag others in to support whatever you say and then they get embarrassed along with you.

Though Tilman is almost certainly the foremost authority on the Harold Worst tables, two other mechanics have had sufficient experience with them if additional confirmation is required. One of them has long since refused all restoration jobs on the H.W. tables because they are just too heavy for him to work with.

Eddie Robin

 

[Eddie Robin]

I do realize you have to find a way out; stop lying so much!

I do realize you have to find a way out; stop lying so much!

...masochist or a sicko to resurrect a dead body. But the "Fairness Doctrine" has forced me to post these emails I sent and received re the infamous Harold Worst tables.

I sent this email to the guy ER was using to represent his case, Tilman Mathis.

Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 05:20:37 -0700
From: fbentivegna@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Golden Eight ball tables
To: eightballtilo@hotmail.com

Mr Mathis. My name is Freddy the Beard Bentivegna, I have been a top level pool player for 50 years. In the 1960s I spent a lot of time in the Golden Eight Ball in Chicago. They were one of the first companies to use Harold Worst endorsed tables. My recollection of those tables is much different than yours. I spent years in that poolroom and to me and almost everyone else, those were the "worst" tables ever made. They did not have real slate 1 1/2 inches as you related to Eddie Robin in an email in 2007. They may have reverted to slate years later, but the tables in that pool room had artificial slate, supposedly corregated fibreglass called Slateen. They rolled very badly and the cushions were inferior. The tables you spoke of in 2007, over 40 years later, may have underwent improvements. They would have certainly needed to.

Do you know of anywhere in America where those tables are still being used?

Thanks for your time,
Freddy Bentivegna

Since he hasnt replied to ER since 2007 I never expected a reply but unbelivably, I got one. Albeit, a confounding one.

Sir,in reply to yor inquiry of the Golden Eightball tables. There are residences here in the Grand Rapids area that have these particular tables in use, with slate beds and good playing cushions, to me they are comparable to most general commercial Tables I have played and tested. There are also people in the G. R. area that have some just laying around in their storage facilities deteriorating-non-climate controlled, which also are slate beds. I also have a 5x10 Snooker in my climate controlled work shop, 3 piece slate, which I am just currently using as a work bench with the rails off. I can tell you that I have never seen a non-slate composite-bed Golden Eightball Table, slate seems to be the norm by me. This Table was aquired from Harry Worst, son of Carl Worst, who happened to be Harold Worst's brother, and have provenance to prove it. Granted there might have been some construction issues or innovations, which-ever you would prefer, that were questionable, like the strand-wood main-frame in particular, other than that, I for one think there were also some good innovations, like the multi-point leveling system for the slate-bed as well as the standard leg-leveling system for the frame. I also liked the extruded aluminum outer body Rails. which added more over-all frame strength, for the lack of a solid wood main-frame. The rail-cushion rubber could have been a larger(mass) profile for added accuracy, I thought. I hope this resolves some of your Questions. Sure would be interested in some of your books for my private collection. Keep on Strokin & Regards, Tilman Z. Mathis, Billiard Table Recovery Service. 888-430-POOL(7665)


Here is my, as yet, unanswered reply:

Tilman, I played at the Golden Eight Ball in Chicago in the 1960's. Those tables did not have real slate, but something called Slateen. I talked to Bobby Hunter, a top pool player who grew up on the Golden Eight Ball pool room tables in Grand Rapids. He also agreed that the tables he played on back then had Slateen not slate. I can only surmise that the company switched to slate in later years. Do you know anything about that?

Thank you,
Freddy the Beard Bentivegna

Freddie,

Even the regular model Harold Worst tables were extra heavy compared to other brands of the same size but the H.W. Pro-Models at the Golden 8-Ball were even heavier because of the extra thick slates. All slate substitutes including “slateen” (as on the Brunswick Mach 1 table) are around 50% the weight of real slate and so you guys are quite obviously mistaken. Don't think I'll need to provide additional photos of the Harold Worst slates for the increased weight of the H.W. tables is sufficient proof.

It's understood you have to find a way out for it's no fun getting caught in so many lies but you kinda forced my to finally start defending myself. I even tried to back off once again but here you go again. The worse part is that you drag others in to support whatever you say and then they get embarrassed along with you.

Though Tilman is almost certainly the foremost authority on the Harold Worst tables, two other mechanics have had sufficient experience with them if additional confirmation is required. One of them has long since refused all restoration jobs on the H.W. tables because they are just too heavy for him to work with.

Eddie Robin

 

[Eddie Robin]

Just in case anyone missed this the first time let me reiterate: nothing in the history of the universe that happened on a 4x8 table means shit to me. I do not care who Eddie Robin beat on a 4x8 table. I do not care who Bugs beat on a 4x8 table. I do not care who Cornbread beat on a 4x8 table. I don't care who Don Willis beat or lost to on a 4x8 table. I do not care about any high-run records that were set on a 4x8 table be they 14.1 or banks or 8-Ball or any other game. Unless you did Marilyn Chambers, Linda Lovelace, Seka or Aunt Peg on a 4x8 table I do not care.

4x8 tables did not exist in the world I gambled in for 25 years and they don't exist now. Adult men who played pool for money did and do it on 4 1/2x9's, 5x10's and every now & then a 6x12. 4x8's are irrelevant and mean nothing to anybody that I know of.

Please, if all you have to brag about is who you beat on a 4x8 table, don't waste my time. I don't & will never give a damn.

Dennis

You write that "Adult men who played pool for money did and do it on 4 1/2x9's, 5x10's and every now & then a 6x12. 4x8's are irrelevant and mean nothing to anybody that I know of."

I needed a job because it became increasing hard for me to get a game and so I worked at the Golden 8-Ball. They had great 4 x 8s with thick slates and excellent in all ways despite what Freddie & friends have been saying; I tell the truth and you guys ought to be catching on to that by now.

Was I to quit a good job because they only had 4 x 8s? Many a challenger came in to try me at various games but they all lost and I was finally doing well financially. BTW; I never really knew what my best game was for I never had a tough session in all the time spent in Chicago. I've always assumed my weakest game must have been one-pocket because I they stopped challenging me in 9-ball or 14.1 and so my last few months was strictly one-pocket and the best Chicago had to offer at the time wanted no part of me after fully destroying "Youngblood" Washington, Mexican Johnny (3 sessions), Al Miller, and others whose names I never knew. The great "Bugs" admitted to others that he wouldn't play me.

The only time I'd played banks in my entire life was with The Beard because of how houseman, Bill Romain explained the game didn't matter for the guy had no talent. Believe that was when The Beard had an ice-cream truck double-parked outside. Yeah, yeah, yeah . . . I heard all about The Beards' long list of opponents but I know better; guess you guys still believe whatever he says -- simply amazing!

Have I not mentioned all this before? Do you guys only believe those who get several friends to support what they say? I do understand the use of agreement in convincing others. So many once agreed the world was flat that even intelligent people went along with the notion despite how obvious it was that the world was anything but flat.

Billiardsly yours,

Eddie Robin

PS: Did ya see my message re how I'd come across the most complete version of W1P errata sheets? 18 pages!

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

You write that "Adult men who played pool for money did and do it on 4 1/2x9's, 5x10's and every now & then a 6x12. 4x8's are irrelevant and mean nothing to anybody that I know of."

I needed a job because it became increasing hard for me to get a game and so I worked at the Golden 8-Ball. They had great 4 x 8s with thick slates and excellent in all ways despite what Freddie & friends have been saying; I tell the truth and you guys ought to be catching on to that by now.

Was I to quit a good job because they only had 4 x 8s? Many a challenger came in to try me at various games but they all lost and I was finally doing well financially. BTW; I never really knew what my best game was for I never had a tough session in all the time spent in Chicago. I've always assumed my weakest game must have been one-pocket because I they stopped challenging me in 9-ball or 14.1 and so my last few months was strictly one-pocket and the best Chicago had to offer at the time wanted no part of me after fully destroying "Youngblood" Washington, Mexican Johnny (3 sessions), Al Miller, and others whose names I never knew. The great "Bugs" admitted to others that he wouldn't play me.

The only time I'd played banks in my entire life was with The Beard because of how houseman, Bill Romain explained the game didn't matter for the guy had no talent. Believe that was when The Beard had an ice-cream truck double-parked outside. Yeah, yeah, yeah . . . I heard all about The Beards' long list of opponents but I know better; guess you guys still believe whatever he says -- simply amazing!

Have I not mentioned all this before? Do you guys only believe those who get several friends to support what they say? I do understand the use of agreement in convincing others. So many once agreed the world was flat that even intelligent people went along with the notion despite how obvious it was that the world was anything but flat.

Billiards yours,

Eddie Robin

PS: Did ya see my message re how I'd come across the most complete version of W1P errata sheets? 18 pages!

Eddie,

I wrote my opinion, I didn't state a fact. You cannot argue with my opinion. Nothing you write can change how I feel about it. Restating your "beats" does nothing for your argument. You're wasting your time trying to change my mind on this topic, 4x8's don't exist to me. It's not a personal insult to you that I feel that way, I've felt that way for 30 years, long before I heard of you.

P.S. I think for myself and am not swayed by others opinions on any topic ever. You're traveling a lonely road if you think I am influenced by other people. Mentioning your spat with Freddy in your reply to me is incongruous at best and purely argumentative at worst. My opinion on 4x8's has nothing to do with you and Freddy arguing over anything.

Denis

 

[Eddie Robin]

Eddie,

I wrote my opinion, I didn't state a fact. You cannot argue with my opinion. Nothing you write can change how I feel about it. Restating your "beats" does nothing for your argument. You're wasting your time trying to change my mind on this topic, 4x8's don't exist to me. It's not a personal insult to you that I feel that way, I've felt that way for 30 years, long before I heard of you.

P.S. I think for myself and am not swayed by others opinions on any topic ever. You're traveling a lonely road if you think I am influenced by other people. Mentioning your spat with Freddy in your reply to me is incongruous at best and purely argumentative at worst. My opinion on 4x8's has nothing to do with you and Freddy arguing over anything.

Denis

Eddie,

I wrote my opinion, I didn't state a fact.

Correct! I have to agree.

You cannot argue with my opinion.

Though I did a lousy job with my previous response, one can argue against opinion in hopes to change another's opinion. I should have pointed out that it was on 9-foot tables that I’d beaten all I’d played in Chicago previous to getting the job at the Golden 8-Ball. Maybe then you would have considered me an “adult”.

Nothing you write can change how I feel about it.

That is probably only be true because you have decided it to be so.

Restating your "beats" does nothing for your argument.

Absolutely right about my mentioning “beats” on 8-footers. Once again, I should have explained that I was on the 9-footers before getting that job at the Golden-8-Ball.

Please realize that the mention of just 3 of my one-pocket "beats" was from frustration over not being able to find any of the previous posts that had indicated my accomplishments as a player nor even that post re how Eddie Taylor had explained he’d come to me if he wanted to learn something (he told that to me and I am still amazed that he had told that to another or others). Are those threads with those posts still available here?

You're wasting your time trying to change my mind on this topic, 4x8's don't exist to me. It's not a personal insult to you that I feel that way, I've felt that way for 30 years, long before I heard of you.

Understood.

P.S. I think for myself and am not swayed by others opinions on any topic ever.

That would make you an extremely rare individual. Very few can realize just how much they are swayed by agreement from others.

You're traveling a lonely road if you think I am influenced by other people.

Got that point once again.

Mentioning your spat with Freddy in your reply to me is incongruous at best and purely argumentative at worst. My opinion on 4x8's has nothing to do with you and Freddy arguing over anything.

Did I mention a spat with Freddie -- I'll look for that as soon as i finish up with this post. Having been totally lost and fully confused in school from age of 9 on, I had to just now access a dictionary and found that I agree with your usage of the word "incongruous" as well. You express yourself quite well.

BTW, I’d learned the identity of the greyghost yesterday and recognized his name; it was someone I’d spoken to on the phone several times 2-3 years ago but never realized that he was the "greyghost". I now wish I’d have helped him even more over the phone. I still appreciate how you had both found and posted what he'd written about me.

From reading the above and a few of your other posts I want you to know your have my respect -- and that's despite the way you had used the word “adult” in reference to those who had played on 8-footers. Once again, I‘d no choice as to what size tables I’d played on when working at the Golden-8-Ball for I was there to build business by way of competing with whomever came in the door to play and so couldn’t be doing that elsewhere.

I'm not used to being in as much agreement with one who had disagreed with me, but then again, such people are usually quite wrong. In this case it was I that was for the most part wrong; you were not (except for the word "adult" of course).

Denis

Eddie Robin