Masse Move To Get Out Of A Trap

[lll]

rod dont know if this the shot you were talking about but this is the first masse by rafael
let me set the table
first rafa was left like this
even tho ill show you his shot think about
WHAT WOULD YOU DO
he hit this with inside english but his body obstucteg the full view of the cue so i am assuming it hit the side rail

 

[lll]

rafael shot this

 

[lll]

left sylver like this and here is his shot

 

[lll]

ok so now rafael is stuck like this

deeper behind the 8 ball and his prior kicking lane blocked

 

[lll]

so what does he do
OBVIOUSLY
he chooses a masse shot

 

[lll]

like this
the cue comes back to hit the 8

 

[lll]

to lease sylver like this

 

[lll]

i dont think he thinks "what would artie do?"
a high flyer from what ive seen so far
unbeleivable when he pulls it off a sell out when he misses
for those of you who have played and/or watched him play enough
is his shot choices right for him?? is he on the positive side with his gambles??

 

[Greyghost]

He definitely has great imagination when in a spot..........speaking with cliff we both agreed that playing Ralphie is like fighting with a Dragon, you can kill him but boy can he burn you up with some fabulous shot creativity.

 

[Artie Bodendorfer]

rafael shot this
View attachment 3143

Howe does the cueball take that angle with all that english on the cueball.

Looks like that would be imposable too do.

If he did its a hell off a shot. And I would love for people too shot that shot agaist me.


But some times when thats all you have you have to shoot something. And its hard too see howe all the balls are laying.

But thats one strong shot.

 

[Rod]

rod dont know if this the shot you were talking about but this is the first masse by rafael
let me set the table
first rafa was left like this
even tho ill show you his shot think about
WHAT WOULD YOU DO
he hit this with inside english but his body obstucteg the full view of the cue so i am assuming it hit the side rail

Larry, it wasn't either one. Problem is, I'm not sure he was playing Sylver, I've slept a few times since then. I hear them say he shot two earlier so maybe it wasn't this match. I'll try to put it on the wei if I can figure out how to use the new version.

Rod

 

[NH Steve]

Looks like maybe he tried to do this, but didn't quite get back behind Sylver's cluster. (curves not illustrated)

 

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Looks like maybe he tried to do this, but didn't quite get back behind Sylver's cluster. (curves not illustrated)

Her is a good name for this shot double strong.

 

[Scrzbill]

i dont think he thinks "what would artie do?"
a high flyer from what ive seen so far
unbeleivable when he pulls it off a sell out when he misses
for those of you who have played and/or watched him play enough
is his shot choices right for him?? is he on the positive side with his gambles??

When RM is in the area, which is most of the time, he plays in the monthly one pocket tournaments around here and any extra one pocket tournaments. He is normally the favorite to win them all and plays shots like that all the time. Just never one after the other after the other after the other.

 

[NH Steve]

I did watch the beginning of this match last night -- which includes the masse illustrated in this thread. A couple of things that struck me. One, was how aggressive Rafael "moved" -- he was always trying to maximize ball action with extreme english, caroms, etc. Not always in complete control, but most of the time he got enough control to get away with stuff (in terms of not quite selling out a direct shot). However, what he always seemed to sell out instead was yet another easy to execute lock up safety for Sylver to play, that would put Rafael right back in a killer trap.

I've tried to show an example in this cuetable sequence. Click on the page arrows to see the sequence. Basically, Sylver plays a simple safety and puts Raf behind a ball near Raf's pocket. Raf pulls off some great move/shot, but the problem is he doesn't reciprocate the lock up -- he leaves the cue ball a little open, and Sylver repeats the same safety again. Again, Raf pulls off some tough two-railer or something, but again he doesn't lock up the cue ball.

I think if Raf had instead focused on locking up the cue ball behind that wall of balls by Sylver's pocket, it would have been a different game. Look at the difference between the A & B cue locations. Raf consistently left the cue ball at B, not A.

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[lll]

steve
let me know whether you agreee or disagree
this the first time i watched him in action
my 2 cents
he demonstrated he can hit almost any shot
jacked up ,frozen ,masse
unfortunately he doesnt play on the weii table
the difference between him and the hall of famers
is your difference to get to position a instead of b
but his ability to calculate the speed spin and angle to get there is to be respected imho
sylver had him in positions that he got out of was impressive to me
his gunslinger style would make artie cringe
and one i would love to play him if i were at his level
since his gunsliger style should lose in the long run jmho
id accept the losses when he was on but beleive in the long run i would prevail

 

[Artie Bodendorfer]

I did watch the beginning of this match last night -- which includes the masse illustrated in this thread. A couple of things that struck me. One, was how aggressive Rafael "moved" -- he was always trying to maximize ball action with extreme english, caroms, etc. Not always in complete control, but most of the time he got enough control to get away with stuff (in terms of not quite selling out a direct shot). However, what he always seemed to sell out instead was yet another easy to execute lock up safety for Sylver to play, that would put Rafael right back in a killer trap.

I've tried to show an example in this cuetable sequence. Click on the page arrows to see the sequence. Basically, Sylver plays a simple safety and puts Raf behind a ball near Raf's pocket. Raf pulls off some great move/shot, but the problem is he doesn't reciprocate the lock up -- he leaves the cue ball a little open, and Sylver repeats the same safety again. Again, Raf pulls off some tough two-railer or something, but again he doesn't lock up the cue ball.

I think if Raf had instead focused on locking up the cue ball behind that wall of balls by Sylver's pocket, it would have been a different game. Look at the difference between the A & B cue locations. Raf consistently left the cue ball at B, not A.

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Were you leave the cue ball is the difference between winning and loosing.

One little shot. Will do the job.

Like I sat the game off one pocket is the cuenall and the oblectball. Control that and you will be a great player.

 

[NH Steve]

Were you leave the cue ball is the difference between winning and loosing.

One little shot. Will do the job.

Like I sat the game off one pocket is the cueball and the objectball. Control that and you will be a great player.

YOu can see when you watch the dvd, that on at least one of the two-railers that Raf played, he clearly used inside english, which helped him shorten the bank to give a better chance to go (it didn't), but if he had instead used a little outside, he would have surely dropped the cue ball behind that wall, and yes, he would have missed the two railer a bit wider, but so what? Locking the cue ball up would have made for a much stronger leave. He was obviously going for the two railer to make the shot (which would have been rewarding of course).

Pretty near this sequence, with some variations of course, repeated itself -- it seemed like 3-4 times in the first game alone.

 

[lll]

YOu can see when you watch the dvd, that on at least one of the two-railers that Raf played, he clearly used inside english, which helped him shorten the bank to give a better chance to go (it didn't), but if he had instead used a little outside, he would have surely dropped the cue ball behind that wall, and yes, he would have missed the two railer a bit wider, but so what? Locking the cue ball up would have made for a much stronger leave. He was obviously going for the two railer to make the shot (which would have been rewarding of course).

Pretty near this sequence, with some variations of course, repeated itself -- it seemed like 3-4 times in the first game alone.

only difference in that sequence was sylvers leave kept getting stronger
litterally more behind the 8 ball leading up to the masse shot

 

[NH Steve]

only difference in that sequence was sylvers leave kept getting stronger
literally more behind the 8 ball leading up to the masse shot

Yes, Ochoa definitely worked that cycle to his advantage. But if you remember the layout, ochoa was hiding the cue ball basically behind one ball -- Raf could have easily taken advantage of the wall of three balls by Ochoa's pocket, to really lock up Ochoa, but he didn't.

Here is one of those layouts -- probably right after one of Raf's two-rail shots: