A Great One Pocket player passes! Clem Metz

[wincardona]

You mean something like this? That would be very strong to be able to have great control over both OB and CB and be able to yield positive results on one inning on a consistent basis. Would you say he had a uncanny ability like a Efren does?

I suppose every onepocket player probably has a particular type of shot, that for some reason, they get very good at. Sounds like Clem was very good at kicking into a ball outside of the zone we probably consider safe to do so, and had great control over what the OB and CB were going to do. Also, as Freddy mentions... the ability to take out a guys ball from 9 ft away with some force and stun the cueball so good, he could get it to stop it's forward momentum and have just a revolution or 2 left, so he could nestle up to the rail or another ball. From that distance, that's a wet dream to be able to kill/stun the ball that good

Is this even close, Billy? Or at least the basic idea?

[CueTable]http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AALW4BMeo3CCpD3DDOn3EBJl4FAdA3GAln3HBKO4IBKX4JBDp3KRLb3LUlf3MQOa3NWqd3PRIY4dBKX4dWjA3gUlf3gDGW3iWqd3iOye3iOnd3iWfe3iWqd3kRIY3kbgt3kWAg3kbqe3kTxn3kRtf4qYGPYour_Hole&ZZ3rVluOpponents_Hole&ZZ3sbVTBalls_he's_moving__roughly_in_this_area.__He's_doing_these_types_of_shots_with_great_control_and_doing_something_positive_with_both_the_object_ball_and_the_cueball,_all_in_one_shot.&ZZ@[/CueTable]

Greg, place the 14 ball to the left of the 12 ball and position the cue ball on the head string straight in with the 12 ball. Now take a look at the kick from that position. The 12 ball should hit the 14 ball and the cue ball will draw off the 12 ball to the side rail and then to the bottom cushion. You could get good action with the 12 and 14 balls and your out of the trap.

Billy I.

 

[CaliRed]

Greg, place the 14 ball to the left of the 12 ball and position the cue ball on the head string straight in with the 12 ball. Now take a look at the kick from that position. The 12 ball should hit the 14 ball and the cue ball will draw off the 12 ball to the side rail and then to the bottom cushion. You could get good action with the 12 and 14 balls and your out of the trap.

Billy I.

Hehe... am I getting closer? If this is the type of shot... knowing how to hit those consistantly and being able to have pretty good control over where the cueball and object ball are going is strong.

Edit out WEI, look down further

 

[wincardona]

Hehe... am I getting closer? If this is the type of shot... knowing how to hit those consistantly and being able to have pretty good control over where the cueball and object ball are going is strong.

[CueTable]http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AALW4BMeo3CCpD3DDGp3EBJl4FAdA3GAln3HBKO4IBKX4JBLq3KRLb3LUlb3MQOa3NOpd2PKHU3XDGp3XBcr3bAln4bCQk4bPXh4dBKX4dKBD4eBLq4eJdG3gUlb3gPve3gEFa3iOpd3iEdh3iChW2kKHU3kboR3kWQb3kbiH3kSbk4qYGPYour_Hole&ZZ3rVluOpponents_Hole&ZZ3sbeU&ZZ@[/CueTable]

You got it, now drop the 14 ball a little lower and kick the same way but the kick will not cut the 12 ball as thinly as you have it doing. If you kick and cut the 12 ball that thinly you will lose control of the cue ball. So set it up where when you kick you hit the inside of the 12 ball and send it into the 14 ball which is positioned to the low left of the 12 ball. With this type of a hit you will be able to draw the cue ball off the 12 ball to the side rail and then to the bottom cushion. In order to draw the cue ball off the kicked ball you need to hit the meat of the kicked ball so that the draw will take effect. If the kicked ball was a clock you would hit the ball around the 5:00 mark. You have the kicked ball hit at the 3:00 area, not good.

I have faith in you, I know you'll get it. You have improved on every shot, no reason you'll stop now.

Billy I.

 

[wincardona]

You got it, now drop the 14 ball a little lower and kick the same way but the kick will not cut the 12 ball as thinly as you have it doing. If you kick and cut the 12 ball that thinly you will lose control of the cue ball. So set it up where when you kick you hit the inside of the 12 ball and send it into the 14 ball which is positioned to the low left of the 12 ball. With this type of a hit you will be able to draw the cue ball off the 12 ball to the side rail and then to the bottom cushion. In order to draw the cue ball off the kicked ball you need to hit the meat of the kicked ball so that the draw will take effect. If the kicked ball was a clock you would hit the ball around the 5:00 mark. You have the kicked ball hit at the 3:00 area, not good.

I have faith in you, I know you'll get it. You have improved on every shot, no reason you'll stop now.

Billy I.

This type of a kick will show in many different scenarios, use your imagination to envision how strong of a shot it could be once you have developed the feel for it.

But this shot shows more often in situations like the one you drew up.

Billy I.

 

[wincardona]

Cali, we can officially refer to this type of kick as the Clem Metz kick. So anytime it comes up and i'm commentating i'll say the Clem Metz kick is available.

Billy I.

 

[CaliRed]

You got it, now drop the 14 ball a little lower and kick the same way but the kick will not cut the 12 ball as thinly as you have it doing. If you kick and cut the 12 ball that thinly you will lose control of the cue ball. So set it up where when you kick you hit the inside of the 12 ball and send it into the 14 ball which is positioned to the low left of the 12 ball. With this type of a hit you will be able to draw the cue ball off the 12 ball to the side rail and then to the bottom cushion. In order to draw the cue ball off the kicked ball you need to hit the meat of the kicked ball so that the draw will take effect. If the kicked ball was a clock you would hit the ball around the 5:00 mark. You have the kicked ball hit at the 3:00 area, not good.

I have faith in you, I know you'll get it. You have improved on every shot, no reason you'll stop now.

Billy I.

hehe... Yeah, I figured everyone would figure out you got to get more meat then gristle on this shot. I tightened up the main components of the shot this time.

This ought to get a little closer.

It will be nice to hear the Clem Metz kick reference on a commentary.

[CueTable]http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AALW4BNDp3CCpD3DDGp3EBJl4FAdA3GAln3HBKO4IBKX4JBLq3KRLb3LUlb3MQOa3NPGp2PKHU4VNDp4VXpe3XDGp3XCIU3bAln4bBjj4bLHe4dBKX4dKBD4eBLq4eJdG3gUlb3gQdn3gHIn4gAed3iPGp3iEMu3iAej3iBMk2kKHU3kboN3kVrU3kbaF3kSCizc4qYGPYour_Hole&ZZ3rVluOpponents_Hole&ZZ3sbeU&ZZ@[/CueTable]

 

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Artie,

this thread is about the passing of a pool player.
you can create your own thread if you want to dispute somebody.

I think we owe our fellow pool brothers that respect.

Thanks

I dpnt need osme johnny come latly telling me were too wright and were too post or what too post.

I will stick up for the people I grew up with and new and was friends with.

And If I dont belive or like what they wrote I will respond too it. That is what tis site is about. In case you didnt no.

And You need to practicw what you preach. And I gave my respects too Clem wHen he was out her in Lae Vegas.

You didnt even no him. You are going too tell me about Clem and what he was about.

You should listen instead off talking. And I said on my post what I had too say about. Clem.

Clem and me understood each other and what we were about.

And Lenny Mora helpet him out a lot. And Lenny asket me if I ever played him and I sais no. But he was a great player. with a lot off heart.

And I even said he should be in the hall off fame. Before you ever even showed up.

You need too think and figure out whats going on before you asy something.

And dont no whats the truth or a lie. And Im not disputing anything. Im telling it the way it was and is.

And somebody is not going too talk some BS about were I grew up that dosenst have a clue what was going on. Or who was betting what.

If you dont no about something and you want too put youre two cents ionto it.

You can waite tell you have something too say. Or dispuite..

 

[wincardona]

hehe... Yeah, I figured everyone would figure out you got to get more meat then gristle on this shot. I tightened up the main components of the shot this time.

This ought to get a little closer.

It will be nice to hear the Clem Metz kick reference on a commentary.

[CueTable]http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AALW4BNDp3CCpD3DDGp3EBJl4FAdA3GAln3HBKO4IBKX4JBLq3KRLb3LUlb3MQOa3NPGp2PKHU4VNDp4VXpe3XDGp3XCIU3bAln4bBjj4bLHe4dBKX4dKBD4eBLq4eJdG3gUlb3gQdn3gHIn4gAed3iPGp3iEMu3iAej3iBMk2kKHU3kboN3kVrU3kbaF3kSCizc4qYGPYour_Hole&ZZ3rVluOpponents_Hole&ZZ3sbeU&ZZ@[/CueTable]

Good shot, you hit it well.

Billy I.

 

[Artie Bodendorfer]

I dpnt need osme johnny come latly telling me were too wright and were too post or what too post.

I will stick up for the people I grew up with and new and was friends with.

And If I dont belive or like what they wrote I will respond too it. That is what tis site is about. In case you didnt no.

And You need to practicw what you preach. And I gave my respects too Clem wHen he was out her in Lae Vegas.

You didnt even no him. You are going too tell me about Clem and what he was about.

You should listen instead off talking. And I said on my post what I had too say about. Clem.

Clem and me understood each other and what we were about.

And Lenny Mora helpet him out a lot. And Lenny asket me if I ever played him and I sais no. But he was a great player. with a lot off heart.

And I even said he should be in the hall off fame. Before you ever even showed up.

You need too think and figure out whats going on before you asy something.

And dont no whats the truth or a lie. And Im not disputing anything. Im telling it the way it was and is.

And somebody is not going too talk some BS about were I grew up that dosenst have a clue what was going on. Or who was betting what.

If you dont no about something and you want too put youre two cents ionto it.

You can waite tell you have something too say. Or dispuite..

ANd the laet 4 posts all youre doing is talking about a shot. Is that howe you give youre respect too Clem.

You are a joke and you tell someone too open up thier owne trend. Well why didnt you do that on youre shots youre talking about.

People want too tell other people what too do . When they do the complete opposite too what they say.

Is that what you are doing in youre last 4 posts talk about Clem. WAke up eake a walk and get some fresh air. Or get you a bottle off Vo.

Maybe that will make you see what you are saying a lot clearer.

 

[Artie Bodendorfer]

ANd the laet 4 posts all youre doing is talking about a shot. Is that howe you give youre respect too Clem.

You are a joke and you tell someone too open up thier owne trend. Well why didnt you do that on youre shots youre talking about.

People want too tell other people what too do . When they do the complete opposite too what they say.

Is that what you are doing in youre last 4 posts talk about Clem. WAke up eake a walk and get some fresh air. Or get you a bottle off Vo.

Maybe that will make you see what you are saying a lot clearer.

This tread is about a passing off a pool player. Howe can I tell. Not by your posts.

 

[fred bentivegna]

Its all in the book...

Its all in the book...

Here is a great example of that shot taken out of a real situation.

Beard

 

[NH Steve]

I found the contents of a news article that I had posted here a few years ago -- about Clem's mother, who was 108 years old at the time:

At 108, Metz is still 'feisty'
BY ADAM ROSING


FLORENCE - Helen Metz came into this world on April 28 at the turn of the 19th to the 20th century, more than 108 years ago.

The world has changed in almost unimaginable ways since her birth.

Consider this, the U.S. has had 19 presidents; women now have the right to vote; automobiles, radio, television, and the Internet have been invented; and numerous wars have taken place, most notably World Wars I and II.

Celebrating her birthday on Monday with family, friends, and center staff, Helen looks frail and gets around using a wheelchair, however, her attitude is still bright and spunky.

Carol Hyde, Helen's primary caretaker, has known her since she moved into the nursing home in January 2004.

"She is a wonderful, feisty little lady," Hyde said. "She enjoys sitting outside, visiting the nurses station, and having coffee and donuts with the night shift staff."

Born in Cincinnati's Sayler Park in 1900, Metz's family moved to Chicago when she was just 12 years old. It was there where she met Charles, her late husband who passed away in 1977, and began her career as a manicurist. She and Charles, a barber, most notably manicured and groomed the hair of Al Capone, this country's most notorious mobster.

Don Metz, Helen's 56-year-old grandson, said his grandma ventured into numerous careers throughout her life.

"She was a manicurist, a nurse, and then an apartment complex manager into the 1970s. I used to help her out with jobs around the complex on the weekends," he said.

She also used to be an avid gardener.

"She loved being out in the garden ... she was pretty much a perfectionist," Don said.

Helen and Charles have one son, 77-year-old Eugene Metz; three grandchildren, and three great-grandchildren. A great-great-grandchild is expected to be born in July.

The highlight of her party was a violinist. Helen said she enjoys the violin, because it reminds her of her husband.

"Whenever he got to feeling blue or sad then he would take out the violin and just play," she said.

And if you're looking for a magical secret as to why Helen has lived such a long life, she said it is simple.

"I never smoke or drank."

 

[CaliRed]

I dpnt need osme johnny come latly telling me were too wright and were too post or what too post.

I will stick up for the people I grew up with and new and was friends with.

And If I dont belive or like what they wrote I will respond too it. That is what tis site is about. In case you didnt no.

And You need to practicw what you preach. And I gave my respects too Clem wHen he was out her in Lae Vegas.

You didnt even no him. You are going too tell me about Clem and what he was about.

You should listen instead off talking. And I said on my post what I had too say about. Clem.

Clem and me understood each other and what we were about.

And Lenny Mora helpet him out a lot. And Lenny asket me if I ever played him and I sais no. But he was a great player. with a lot off heart.

And I even said he should be in the hall off fame. Before you ever even showed up.

You need too think and figure out whats going on before you asy something.

And dont no whats the truth or a lie. And Im not disputing anything. Im telling it the way it was and is.

And somebody is not going too talk some BS about were I grew up that dosenst have a clue what was going on. Or who was betting what.

If you dont no about something and you want too put youre two cents ionto it.

You can waite tell you have something too say. Or dispuite..

Artie,

No reason to get your bowels in a uproar. You started rambling on about how Bill Stroud must be lying about who he played and all that nonsense.

I said " Hey, let's keep this thread about Clem" If you want to dispute who Bill played and who he didn't, to start a new thread about it. No reason for you to get personal about it.

Regarding my last 4 posts, they were posts trying to depict what Billy I. said Clem was very good at it. Trying to show a signature shot of Clem's is very relevant to this thread.

Your post quoted below, is where you went off in left field. Sometimes you lose track of what a thread is about. There's nothing wrong with someone letting you know when that is. I hope you agree after reading it, that you got a little/lot off topic.

This will be my only off topic post in this thread. I apologize for this one.

Akins didnt need too tell you the gang whated you too leave. If he told you too leave he didnt need too use anybody to tell you they want you too leave..
If akins wanted you too leave he didnt have too give a reason for you too leave, Akins could take care off anybody. He was not some little kid. He was a to Guard in one off the toughest jails in the country.

Cook County. And why would he even tell you too leave? Why do you think he told you too leave. Akins never told anyone too leave. And if you realy new him you would never even have said what you said.

I never in my whole life have herd off anybody being told too lweave a pool room on the south side off Chicago. Were do you come up with this Shit.

You probable never wetre in a pool room on the south side off Chicago. Just like in Bensingers. If you were thier you must have been hidding behind the pillers.

Because I sure dont remember you being thier. And I was thier every day morning tell night. And dont forget too tell me who you beat for all that money. On the south side off Chicago.

And when I her something that I dont belive I what too her the answer about the truth.

Not just too be wrighting something thats made up.

 

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Good shot, you hit it well.

Billy I.

Whats showen on this diagram can not be done. The cue ball wont go back too that angle and then behind the ball. Unless you draw the cueball on the first rail shot.

Its like even money that you will scratch. Becuse the shot cant be done the way its showen.

Three coushion billiard players no this cant be done.

 

[Jimmy B]

ANd the laet 4 posts all youre doing is talking about a shot. Is that howe you give youre respect too Clem.

You are a joke and you tell someone too open up thier owne trend. Well why didnt you do that on youre shots youre talking about.

People want too tell other people what too do . When they do the complete opposite too what they say.

Is that what you are doing in youre last 4 posts talk about Clem. WAke up eake a walk and get some fresh air. Or get you a bottle off Vo.

Maybe that will make you see what you are saying a lot clearer.

I warned you about the guy. I tried to forgive him but now he is jumping on you and trying to give marching orders to AB and I cannot tolerate this much longer without going off!

What is wrong with him?? Was he brought up in reform school? Was he some spec 4 lifer in the military? Is he a papparazzi after all just trying to get a reaction. I don't know.

As far as that damn tiki shot. I checked it out. He kept changing it and asking cardone is this it?? Now is this it? Have I got it now. So Bill says yea yea fine great. You got it. Great shot whatever. Leave me be.

Ok so in the last diagram re post 32. Who is the hell would want to try a tiki when you just can easily hit the right side of the 11 as you face it and bury him under the 13. The tike is to unpredictable. You can scratch or leave somebody straight in.

Now on the other hand, Freddy The Beards (which is what I think Bill originally meant) illustration that he played against the Cannoball makes perfect sense. He up closer and can hit the upper side of the ball knowing he has plenty of time to get back to the rail and behind those two balls.

As far as the words between Mr. Stroud and AB. During the convention the town was in a turmoil. Daley gave orders and cops were beating and bashing the hell out of people. It was almost chaos in places for awhile. The Panthers may have did that order to vacate the premisies temporarily. A lot of very violent scenes were right on national tv. I saw it. I did not see who played who in the different pool rooms.

As far as Eugene clem Metz. I don't like the guy. He cheated Cardona out of his end of the money and I call bullshit on that too. If he would cheat him out of 45$ he would do what for 45K? Also Artie says he would lose and take back the money by force sometimes. That's been attempted wi me before. Ask them how that worked out for them. Donnie A didn't care for him, even though they traveled a bit as teens natrually since Joey S and Donnie and Clem were same ages or one yr different. You can very very easily read in between the lines in that little interview. If I had of been Bill I , I would have said hey I'm not one of your whores. Give me my end. See pimps don't give back a %. That's why he gave Bill that dope. So he would be paranoid and not say anything, plus he saw that he was so young. He won 3 hundred from the other dude so where Im from the jockey and Bill should have gotten at least a hundred apiece. Back in the day a when you were a teen a hundred could have meant a lot. I won't even get into The Mann Act deal.........

 

[wincardona]

Artie,

You're right. I didn't go to Bensingers very often. I didn't like stepping over the junkies to get in. Besides as I said the Golden 8 ball had way more action.

I met Joey Lapides out in Libertyville at the Green Duck right after I beat Alley Opp. He tried to rob me on the highway but didn't get there. He was lucky to have escaped alive. Later we became friendly.

I played everyone at the Golden 8 ball that wanted to play and beat them all.
Saw Freddy a few times but he never wanted to play. Played Fells several times. Think I gave him the 7 ball. You can ask him. HE is still alive.

Also played Billy I. and Brenie Swartz right after he won the Srardust 9 ball tourney.

Never saw Buggs there.

Bill Stroud

The reason I hung around The Golden 8 Ball is because that's where I stayed when I was in Chicago, my girlfriend lived on Elm St. by the lake, two blocks from the pool, room. I was around 20 or 21 years old when I played you, but I don't remember you ever playing Bernie Schwartz there. I'm not saying you didn't but I don't remember that happening.

You played very well at that time and I was just starting to develop my game at age 20, too bad we didn't play a few years later, there may have been a different outcome.

Correct me if i'm mistaken, didn't Clem come to The Golden 8 Ball to play a few times? I don't remember but i'm thinking he did.

Billy I.

 

[wincardona]

Whats showen on this diagram can not be done. The cue ball wont go back too that angle and then behind the ball. Unless you draw the cueball on the first rail shot.

Its like even money that you will scratch. Becuse the shot cant be done the way its showen.

Three coushion billiard players no this cant be done.

You're correct, on post #25 and #30, but on post#32 the revised illustration is correct. The shot is a strong shot that can be used in many different scenarios. Clem was very adamant about the strength of the shot when he showed it to me. I have shot this shot 100's of times with success.

Billy I.

 

[wincardona]

Whats showen on this diagram can not be done. The cue ball wont go back too that angle and then behind the ball. Unless you draw the cueball on the first rail shot.

Its like even money that you will scratch. Becuse the shot cant be done the way its showen.

Three coushion billiard players no this cant be done.

That's how the shot is executed, by drawing it.

Billy I.

 

[Artie Bodendorfer]

You're correct, on post #25 and #30, but on post#32 the revised illustration is correct. The shot is a strong shot that can be used in many different scenarios. Clem was very adamant about the strength of the shot when he showed it to me. I have shot this shot 100's of times with success.

Billy I.

THat shot isnt worth two cents. And if some one shoots it with the object ball that far frome the rail is redicoulous.

And I would love too play someone from that position shooting that shot. That shot is a complete no go.

Its not realistick and its a horrable shot. And its a good ticky playing tree coushion because it takes you wright too the corner. Wright in the corner to scratch.

And thier is a perfect and easy shot too shoot with no scratch and more controle. Over the cue ball and object balls.

THe shot I would shoot from thier is the correct shot too shoot.

And if you want too shoot these off the wall shots. THat have no controle. Go ahead and give the game away.

I will let Billy shoot that shot when I see him. I am dieing too see what happines when he shoots it. So get a lot off practice on the shot.

So when I see you you will mo howe to execuite the shot . THats shooting up in the air. And I waht to see you controle the shot too .

Its only a few days away. BUt the shot is a lemon. Unless the object ball is close too the rail. Its imposable too controle. And if you ask a 3 coushion player. He will tell you that its almost imposable too control the cue ball like that.

In three coushion its ok because its a good ticky. And comeing out off the corner. Not stoping thier. Makes it a good shot too score on.

But in one pocket I would never tell someone too shoot that shot unless I was betting on the other guy.

 

[CaliRed]

WTH??? Just in case people forgot what this thread was about. (and I can see why that might be)