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1P: I understand you were real good at bowling and boxing as well as pool – speaking for pool fans everywhere, I want to thank you for choosing pool. What made you decide to focus on pool instead of bowling or boxing? DD: It wasn't so much a choice; it was more that I was pushed. I loved boxing, but I broke my hand four times and I was about to get crippled in my right hand, so that's why I quit – not because I decided to do anything else.
1P: When you first started playing pool, was that at home or in a poolroom? DD: In a poolroom – home, we were lucky to have a bed!
1P: I understand you went to college; did you graduate from college? DD: A two year course at the University of Buffalo. I played a lot of pool there in the student union, but I still never had ideas of playing professionally or being a pool player – I always wanted to box. I always wanted to fight. My brother fought, and every time he fought my parents almost had a seizure. I saw what it did to them, so when I finally decided that I was going to box I went to Florida. I told my family I was going to Florida and get a job for the winter, but then I went and looked up Angelo Dundee, because I wanted to box for Angelo Dundee. I changed my name to Danny Toriani so my family wouldn't know. But what happened was, the first fight I had was in Tampa and they announced me as Danny Toriani, but two guys – friends of my father – were at ringside and they were up there staring at me saying ‘You're not Danny Toriani, you're Danny Diliberto, we've known you since you were a kid.' So the cat was out of the bag immediately. So my father said, ‘If that's how it is, you really wanna do it, go ahead.' I said, don't worry about me – worry about the people I fight. I really was cocky, but I had never lost a fight in my life. I was little, and bullies bothered me all the time, and I mashed them, so I really was confidant. Now I'm fighting people my weight, or close to it, and I thought I was stealing – which I was. Except I kept breaking my hand, bad. Look at this [Danny shows me his disfigured right hand!]; it's a mess.
1P: I'm amazed that you could be great at such contrasting talents as pool and boxing – when I think about pool I think about delicate moves, compared to the pounding in boxing – that's quite a contrast… DD : Well, I have a theory about that, I believe you play all games with your head.
1P: Were there any particular mentors you had when you got started playing pool seriously? DD: Not head to head telling me things, but from observing. Joe Moran, who was city straight Pool champion in Buffalo for 20 years -- he had a great style. Never a world champion, but a real good player who got around the balls real well, not 9-Ball Straight Pool where they just whack the balls every chance they get. Joe Moran fell on the balls where they went with great cue ball control, and it was contagious. In fact, talk about contagious, I watched Mosconi when he came to Buffalo and played a day and night exhibition and he ran over 100 both matinee and evening. From the next day on I ran balls.
1P: How old were you when you saw Mosconi? DD: I was probably about 19 and from there on I ran balls. From Joe Moran, I picked up a lot about touch and falling on balls. I like to teach that you look where balls go, then you fall on where they go, that way you get great cue ball. If you've got clusters, and you shoot one and then the other ones go in another pocket, fall around to where they go and you're going to have great cue ball.
1P: You mean the Tom Fox article about the '61 event? DD: Yeah, I read that article and it influenced me and really made me want to go. It had all the characters -- it looked like they had every animal there was: ‘Squirrels', ‘Bears', ‘Rabbits' – it had them all, so I had to go. And I had pretty good success from the beginning on because I never felt intimidated by a player – never felt intimidated. In fact, I had the best of some of the great players. Like Lassiter, he won all those tournaments, but he couldn't beat me. I beat him like seven or eight in a row; same thing with Balsis.
1P: So what was Johnston City like? DD: It was like going to college; every top all-around player in the world was there, and the hustlers, too. The first guy that came up to me was Earl Shriver – he came up to me and said, ‘Son, if you keep your mouth shut and your eyes open around here, you're going to learn a lot.' And that's what I did, and I was lucky enough to be alive and around during the Johnston City years. If you didn't learn something there you were an idiot.
1P: That group there – in the beginning anyway -- wasn't so much the tournament players as it was the hustlers. Crane didn't go there in the beginning, did he? DD: He only went a couple times anyway, and Balsis also. Lassiter was there every year. 1P: Lassiter was one of those players that played both in the big tournaments and on the road… DD: Well don't say Johnston City wasn't a big tournament.
1P: I just meant it wasn't one of those typical industry sponsored tournaments; it was more of a hustler's tournament – especially in the beginning. DD: In fact it was called the World Hustler's Tournament. The people in Johnston City would bet on themselves, that was the big thing. There was so much knowledge -- the gambling, the making of games, the whole schmear. We would all trade spots – Johnston City was located almost centrally, so people came from out west routes, from south routes, northeast routes, and on the way everybody would try to make the nut, to at least travel free. And they all had their spots – you go to West Monroe, Louisiana there was I guy named ‘BB', and if you go there on a Thursday, he got paid and if you asked him to play 9-Ball he's going to ask you to play One Pocket; he's going to lose this and that and then he's going to raise it – all perfectly, the FBI couldn't give you a better description. When they told you what a guy looked like, again, better than the FBI. They had a guy in Anaheim that would play in this bar and a guy that owned a factory next door staked him, so if you went there on a certain night, ‘Square-Headed Frank' would be there. Now if you walked in a room with a hundred people you'd find ‘Square-Headed Frank'. Then we had ‘Crooked Arm Jimmy' in a place in Florida, and ‘Tangle-Eye' in Oklahoma. We had a ‘Pizza Face'. I mean you walk in, just a perfect description, and we traded notes.
1P: It does sound like college – or maybe graduate school… DD: It was. And they were good people, all friendly people. People like Eddie Taylor and Lassiter, filled with love and ready to help you. Good people. There was a lot of partying, good times, and a lot of women, too. I was shy before all that, but Johnston City really got me out of the shyness. I'll tell you a funny story, after my days in Buffalo and moving to Florida I didn't go back to Buffalo for like eight years one stretch. When I finally went back and played exhibitions, people couldn't believe it was me. I went from shy and quiet to outgoing. Back at the University of Buffalo I had a course I had to drop out of because once a month you had to give a speech I front of the class, and I couldn't do it. I just couldn't do it. But after, I could do anything in front of people.
1P: Oh really, so there was something about it that changed you that much? DD: Like I say, when I went back to Buffalo, they couldn't believe it was me. And it was so much fun – what a better feeling it was. As life went on, more and more things I could do in front of people – forget about giving a speech in college, now I could sing in front of people! I went from being too shy to dance with girls, to… I grew up in a lot of different ways in Johnston City.
1P: I've never heard that before about Johnston City. So how would you say the Derby City Classic would compare to Johnston City? DD: They're trying to make Derby City like Johnston City, with the all-around thing, but it's in a big city, and you have the riverboat gambling casinos, you have off track betting. You couldn't go anywhere with the money at Johnston City. In other words [at the DCC] you could lose money tonight to a guy and tomorrow, you can't win back what you lost, because he went somewhere and gambled it away. Johnston City, the money was still there, that's why it will never be the same. And we don't have the closeness. In those days it was like one big happy family – we would all chip in to get someone out of town if he went broke, even though we gambled with them, we would chip in to stake him in another spot. It's not that way nowadays. Players are a little colder to each other; it's just not as good camaraderie.
1P: The camaraderie was really special, then… DD: It was; it was.
1P: I can see where the Derby City might be too big for that… DD: Yeah. It's a great tournament, I have fun at it and I do commentary and all that, and it's a great hotel we play in, you never have to leave the place.
1P: Yeah, I haven't left yet since I've been there. DD: I know, I go there nine days and I never leave the place. 1P: Danny, have you pretty much made your whole career playing pool? You didn't ever go out and sell cars or whatever?
1P: You mentioned how you first ran into One Pocket at Johnston City, I'd like to hear how that happened… DD: Hubert Cokes, who was known as ‘Daddy Warbucks', was hitting balls in the practice room, and I asked if I could hit ‘em with him. So he said, ‘Where you from?' And I said Buffalo, and he asked me, ‘Are you in all three events?' I said, no, 9-ball and Straight Pool only. I said I never played a game of One Pocket – I never saw a game of One Pocket back in Buffalo. They simply did not play it. So he says, ‘Well, while you're here, you ought to play in all three events.' He actually staked me in the tournament. Then I happened to draw him in my first match – right after he was showing me how to break the balls and everything -- I drew him the first match. I broke, happened to make a ball on the break, and ran eight and out. Then he broke, left me a short bank, which I made and ran eight. The third game I made a ball on the break again and ran eight. I beat him 3-0, 24 balls to nothing. Then after that of course, I had to play people like Eddie Taylor, Ronnie Allen, and ‘Boston Shorty', and there were a lot of other players you never heard of, like Al Miller. There were a lot of players that never became champions, but knew how to play One Pocket, and I couldn't get by any of them. Everybody hustled me to play One Pocket. Finally I got sick of it and said I've got to learn this game, which I think I did a good job of learning.
1P: So in the beginning they were all trying to trap you at One Pocket? DD: Yeah, I could really play 9-ball and Straight Pool, so they all hustled me to play One Pocket. I was helpless, everything looked like the wrong shot; I thought everything had to be intricate; I didn't know there were simple safes. Everything looked like a jigsaw puzzle, and I had to change that. I didn't like weak players hustling me, trying to give me weight in One Pocket – guys that I could give the seven to in 9-Ball, trying to give me 10-7 in One Pocket. I couldn't stand it; my ego couldn't take it, I had to learn it.
1P: Did you get connected with a particular player at that point to learn the game? DD: I watched. The closest I had to learning from someone was with Marcel Camp in Florida. He was a great player of the old days, and he played every game well. I learned a lot from him, but it was mostly from watching and noting what he did, and then I added stuff. I put Straight Pool in – the pile and so on – that I added to the game. Of course people like Ronnie Allen, had great kicking, and it's such a big part of the game, kicking. I got to watch, record it, remember it and use it. Like I said, only a moron wouldn't have learned in Johnston City.
1P: You also execute real well from a distance, that's a strength of yours… DD: A lot better when I was younger, and not blind.
1P: I really enjoy your Accu-stats commentary; you seem to be very good at anticipating what a player is going to shoot… DD: I try to make it a lesson.
1P: Sometimes there might be two or three shot possibilities… DD: Or four or five different choices.
1P: How do you go about figuring which one to shoot? DD: Okay, which one is more dangerous? Which one plays the score better? You have to play the score. You'll shoot a shot needing six and the other guy needs two, that you wouldn't shoot if you need one. You've gotta have the judgment of when to shoot; when to duck; when it's a good run-out situation. But if you're gambling, there's the other element too. Let's say you're playing somebody and you've got an edge on them and you don't want them to quit, then you don't pick your most powerful choice. You go down the ladder and pick maybe the third or forth best choice, to keep them in the game. It's that kind of game. 9-Ball, you've got to run out; Straight Pool you've got to run out to win; but One Pocket, there's a little stall element you can use. It's unfortunate, but that's in the game – it's the best game to do it. You're a pretty good player, but I could probably play you ‘One-and-Stop' and beat you. I don't have to run eight, I just make one ball and play safe. You'll never shoot at your pocket and I'll get out one at a time. No insult intended, I'm just talking about a different angle so people will know more about One Pocket.
1P: Do you have any particular players you like to do the commentary for? DD: I like Keith McCready, he's entertaining all the time; he's colorful to watch, because he's going to shoot at a white flag. He doesn't play the score; he could be winning 7 to 1 and he's still going to shoot at a crazy shot that he could lose with. But he's a colorful person, so I like doing commentary on him. There's a few others, Efren of course. I have fun with it anyway, but when a game gets real slow and it's all ducking and up table, then what I like to do is tell stories. I like to throw something in there when it gets slow, but I would rather do matches that are more aggressive and get over with. If not, I try to find something to make it interesting. 1P: When you went on the road, did you tend to go alone or with other players?
1P: How would you say the game of One Pocket has changed since Johnston City? DD: It's definitely more aggressive now. With the old-timers it was a ducking game, you know, all safe and cautious, and the games lasted a lot longer. Now the players are more aggressive. People like Ronnie Allen were very aggressive, and of course nowadays Efren Reyes will invent things to get out. In the old days it was more about caution. One game of One Pocket took three and a half hours one time.
1P: Before Johnston City and the TV exposure, One Pocket was more of a back room type of game – not the kind of game that would be in the spotlight. Then they got all that exposure and television and everything – do you think that helped loosen up the game? DD: Well of course when they did come to Johnston City with television they had to do a lot of editing. Even 9-Ball could take a long time in those days – you could push out every shot, not just after the break. You got safe, you pushed out. Now it's one foul ball-in-hand, and that's why they went to one foul ball-in-hand -- it was the Jansco's that changed it for television.
1P: So it was the Jansco's that changed the 9-Ball rules, but they didn't change the rules for One Pocket, yet the game changed… DD: Grady has ideas to make the game go faster when all the balls get upstream. When a certain amount of balls get past the head string, they all go on the spot in a line. He used that in Columbia, South Carolina.
1P: I wanted to ask you about your book that you've been working on the last year… DD: Over a year, with Jerry Forsythe. It's just about done and ready to go to the publisher. Hopefully it will become something. I sent a copy to Hollywood for them to look at it, but there's one thing that's against it in Hollywood right now, and that's that bomb movie they made about pool – Pool Hall Junkies. Good friends of mine in Hollywood that are in the business said that's the one little minus that might hurt you, is that people are afraid to put any money into a pool movie. But I like to think mine's not just a pool movie. My book has more than just pool in it. When you read the book, you're going to be a lot smarter about other things – other little scams and hustles that you wouldn't know existed. Then there's boxing, and sports, and throwing the golf ball – it's not just pool. So I hope it goes well for me, I think it's great script material, and so do people in Hollywood. We just have to see and hope, and hopefully the people that have the money to produce things aren't totally turned off by that Pool Hall Junkies movie.
1P: Who are some of the better-known One Pocket players that figure into your book? DD: I talk a little about Efren and Ronnie Allen – not just good players, but colorful people. I tell a great story about Keith McCready in the book, you might want to do this for like a forerunner for it; it's a great story. In Bellflower in '68, here's this skinny pimple-faced kid thirteen years old, that two weeks in a row busted the ring pay-ball game on the Snooker table with the best players in California – and road players – it was Keith McCready. He would sleep under the tables, on the bench – he was thirteen. So I said, don't think I'm butting in your business, but don't you go to school? He said, ‘Nah, I got thrown out of school. They threw me out.' So I said, for what? He said, ‘For having too much money.' So I said, you want to elaborate on that? He said, ‘Elaborate, what's that mean?' I said, tell more about it. So now he says he went to Phys-Ed and goes up to the Phys-Ed teacher and says, ‘Would you hold my money? I don't wanna put it in my locker; someone might steal it. Would you hold my money?' The teacher said, ‘Yeah, I'll hold it. How much?' Keith says, ‘Twelve thousand. So they threw me out for having too much money.'
1P: That's pretty funny! Well, I'm really looking forward to the book. Danny, thanks very much for all your time!
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