Side Rail First One Pocket Break

One Pocket Ghost · Sep 22, 2008

I just posted this at the az forum and think it should also be posted here. A poster asking if the old Side Rail First One Pocket Break, where you go into the side rail first, just below the side pocket, then caroming into the side of the rack and freezing, is a good break - maybe Steve can post the diagram up of this break. This is what I told him.....

Here's the best scenario for using the rail first break and this is also also a strong matching up tip........If you have a regular game with a guy that spots you a ball, try to get him to instead play you even, 8 to 8, but you get to move any ball after each break and spot it......Then you can use this break and be able to spot up his corner ball if it sells out......And on his break, moving a ball is strong - you can escape the after-break-trap, and often times you can create an offensive shot for yourself and turn the break around......This spot may even be equal to 10 to 8 - I'd like to hear Billy, Dick, Freddy, John Henderson or Grady give their opinion of exactly what this spot is equal to in balls.

ps, I didn't include Artie, cuz he charges $100 for an opinion....

- Ghost

Smorgass Bored · Sep 23, 2008

I used to use this side break all the time and it worked well against players of my level and below, but the better players tortured me.

It moved the balls to my hole or side and left them frozen to the stack, but a ball coming out towards their pocket was my demise. It may have different results if you can get your opponent to spot you moving one ball back to the spot, however.

I once asked Grady about this break and he said that none of the top players use it, because if you happen to make a ball, you can't runout or run more balls. A good player can get out of this break and if you break it badly, it can come back to bite you.

Use this break against better players at your own peril.

Doug

NH Steve · Sep 23, 2008

Norm 'The Farmer' Webber lived up in my neck of the woods for quite a while and he and I used to play regularly. He used that break alot (does this mean I am a weaker player, lol?). I got a lot of practice dealing with it. Like Smorg mentions, it isn't an offensive break, but rather hopes to gain an advantage by trapping the recipient. He did sell out the corner ball on my side, or the cue ball would penetrate a little and happen to leave a direct shot, now and then.

When he hit it well I would generally end up kicking one rail behind his balls -- often taking a scratch -- but what's one ball when the break is supposed to be worth a couple

Like The Ghost said, getting a "pick" would sure make a big difference!! But my understanding is that experienced players know they have the "pick" they play the standard break a bit more aggressively, too.

wincardona · Sep 23, 2008

just a feel

just a feel

One Pocket Ghost said:
I just posted this at the az forum and think it should also be posted here. A poster asking if the old Side Rail First One Pocket Break, where you go into the side rail first, just below the side pocket, then caroming into the side of the rack and freezing, is a good break - maybe Steve can post the diagram up of this break. This is what I told him.....

Here's the best scenario for using the rail first break and this is also also a strong matching up tip........If you have a regular game with a guy that spots you a ball, try to get him to instead play you even, 8 to 8, but you get to move any ball after each break and spot it......Then you can use this break and be able to spot up his corner ball if it sells out......And on his break, moving a ball is strong - you can escape the after-break-trap, and often times you can create an offensive shot for yourself and turn the break around......This spot may even be equal to 10 to 8 - I'd like to hear Billy, Dick, Freddy, John Henderson or Grady give their opinion of exactly what this spot is equal to in balls.

ps, I didn't include Artie, cuz he charges $100 for an opinion....

- Ghost

Bruce, I really can't tell you what moving a ball is worth,but if two players play even I would rather be spotted 10/8 over being allowed to move a ball after the break.Look at it this way,two equal players playing one another one player moves a ball after every break,the other player gets 10/8.I like the player getting 10/8

fred bentivegna · Sep 23, 2008

I hate that game

I hate that game

One Pocket Ghost said:
Here's the best scenario for using the rail first break and this is also also a strong matching up tip........If you have a regular game with a guy that spots you a ball, try to get him to instead play you even, 8 to 8, but you get to move any ball after each break and spot it......Then you can use this break and be able to spot up his corner ball if it sells out......And on his break, moving a ball is strong - you can escape the after-break-trap, and often times you can create an offensive shot for yourself and turn the break around......This spot may even be equal to 10 to 8 - I'd like to hear Billy, Dick, Freddy, John Henderson or Grady give their opinion of exactly what this spot is equal to in balls.

ps, I didn't include Artie, cuz he charges $100 for an opinion....

- Ghost

(I put this post up on another thread but it probably belongs here

Ok, Ghost. Moving a ball and spotting it after either break is worth at least 10 to 8. Its a common spot on the Black South Side of Chicago. However, I hated it and quit giving it out in the early 80s. You can never get up any momentum giving away that spot. You are going to be on the defensive right from the jump. When you break you make your break even stronger when you spot the ball and further block access to your balls on the long rail. When he breaks, usually moving a key ball will often give you access to a bank to your pocket. It should only be given to a very weak player.

the Beard

inthastack · Sep 25, 2008

another break

another break

What about the break where you clip the head ball with english and go two rails side rail first back into the stack? Haven't heard about that one on here.

SJDinPHX · Sep 25, 2008

inthastack said:
What about the break where you clip the head ball with english and go two rails side rail first back into the stack? Haven't heard about that one on here.

You must be refering to the "suicide break", (8 out of 10 times, it doesn't work) If you promise to break that way, you got 8 to 6 (or more) from me, and I am WAY over the hill. Plus, you MUST break.

Dick

hemicudas · Sep 25, 2008

What ball?

What ball?

What would be the optimum ball to hit, or split hit, using the rail first break to keep a ball from seeping out to the other guy's pocket? Would it be different on and 8'-9'-10' table?

SJDinPHX · Sep 25, 2008

hemicudas said:
What would be the optimum ball to hit, or split hit, using the rail first break to keep a ball from seeping out to the other guy's pocket? Would it be different on and 8'-9'-10' table?

$Bill, Pick your size table, 3 x 6 to 6 x 12, If they break that way, they will not win against anyone who can spell Wun Pokett.

Ti Di

hemicudas · Sep 26, 2008

Dick Mc Morran said:
$Bill, Pick your size table, 3 x 6 to 6 x 12, If they break that way, they will not win against anyone who can spell Wun Pokett.

Ti Di

I'm sure you are right, Dick. I have never used the break, just wondering where the hit should be?

gulfportdoc · Sep 26, 2008

Hemi, it's my understanding that this kick break is performed so as to hit the 3rd ball full in the face.

Doc

Side Rail First One Pocket Break

One Pocket Ghost

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Smorgass Bored

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NH Steve

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wincardona

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fred bentivegna

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inthastack

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SJDinPHX

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hemicudas

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SJDinPHX

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hemicudas

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gulfportdoc

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