Hayden Lingo's OP Pamphlet

Billy Jackets said:

For me the LoC was a dead end, they told me that back then, they only held onto material like this for a few years, and then it was discarded.
Sad to think it ended up that way , but unless the heirs have a copy , I doubt it will ever surface.

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That is what I was told too, but I still have someone local working on it. Because it would be too bad if it got dumped. But the more I have been thinking about it, the more I think if it does turn up at the LOC, it is only going to be his version of the rules -- not any great secrets about how he played the game. The reason I say that is you look at when he registered it with them, 1963, that is exactly when the first rules of One Pocket were just starting to get published, anywhere. And in 1963 Lingo was actually still competing, and according the the Beard, he was still a feared player even when he was old and weak. He did not die until 1973, so to me given that hustler mentality, I find it hard to believe he would have made public (as documents are that are filed with the LOC), while he was still competing.

So, yes, I am excited about the idea of finding this long rumored missing Hayden Lingo document, but I am tempering that with what is probably the realistic expectations that it is only the rules.

hey gang, any updates on locating this timid text?

Cotton Lingo stayed around Houston about 1 1/2 years, he knew one pocket inside out. He was a very nice old guy, he gave me my 1st LePro tip.
He spend a lot of time around Duke Dowell, Duke became one of the best one pocket players in Houston or anywhere. Something must have rubbed off.

androd said:

Cotton Lingo stayed around Houston about 1 1/2 years, he knew one pocket inside out. He was a very nice old guy, he gave me my 1st LePro tip.
He spend a lot of time around Duke Dowell, Duke became one of the best one pocket players in Houston or anywhere. Something must have rubbed off.

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that's really cool. I dig most any pool history, but as a native houstonian, it's especially neat to hear about old days there-

One of our members has connections in Washington DC, I'll hit him up. It has a copywrite and #, and I believe for $600 the copywrite office will make it available, or it is possible it could be in the Library of Congress. This is from memory, it been quite awhile ago.
Whitey

Dennis Whitey Young said:

One of our members has connections in Washington DC, I'll hit him up. It has a copywrite and #, and I believe for $600 the copywrite office will make it available, or it is possible it could be in the Library of Congress.
Whitey

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The copyright office does not retain books. They just record copyright claims. The Library of Congress does not keep every book ever printed in the US. They have an online catalog of their holdings: https://catalog.loc.gov/
If you stick "willie hoppe" into the quick search bar there as an example, they will show you all the items they have such as this picture:


Among the other items they have on Hoppe is his book on how to play, and if you follow the links they have there, you will get to a digitized copy that is on a university site. All of this is for free.

The search returns nothing useful on "Hayden Lingo". There are four books about "lingo" (= language, roughly) from Hayden Publishing.

Unless an author went to the trouble of registering a copyright back then, it did not get created, even if the author put a copyright notice in the book/booklet. I believe that part of the copyright process was for the author to send a copy of the work to the Library of Congress. The Library of Congress does/did not keep all of the items sent to them.

There is also the possibility that the booklet on one pocket was published under someone else's name or that Mr. Lingo spelled one or both of his names some other way.

I doubt that a copy was ever sent to the LoC. It is not currently open to the public. It is possible to ask a librarian.

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If you request a reproduction of a deposit not retained under the control of the Copyright Office, the Office will inform you of this fact. In the event that a deposit was selected for the Library of Congress collections, you can search the collections at www.loc.gov or send an email inquiry to a librarian at www.loc.gov/rr/askalib/ask-contactus.html.

This is a statement I pulled from the US Copywrite Office. This was just a quick look see. I'll try to get re-involved as time allows, meaning; we are hot and heavy in working on the official rules, and with any luck a first initial draft will be completed fairly soon. We would then still have to give it go over review before finalizing it.
Whitey

its a recent enough publication that will be found if searched hard and long enough in the right places.

it would be interesting to see and read, but rarely will any old works add much new undiscovered information to the experts on any current subject.

I'm curious where the number 600 pages came from above.

The Copyright Office normally only gives searches of 1978-present. There is a system under development -- and it has been for years -- that allows access to older records. It seems that they scanned their card catalog and have it partly in a searchable database. Here is the card to Lingo's publication mentioned above.



For comparison, here is Hoppe's copyright card from 1941. They seem to have simplified the process by 1963.
It does indicate that they were receiving two copies of the items at that time.

androd said:

Cotton Lingo stayed around Houston about 1 1/2 years, he knew one pocket inside out. He was a very nice old guy, he gave me my 1st LePro tip.
He spend a lot of time around Duke Dowell, Duke became one of the best one pocket players in Houston or anywhere. Something must have rubbed off.

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Rod, did you ever see, or hear of, Jack Hill? According to Freddie he was an Oklahoma City player and contemporary of Lingo's who may have had a hand in the early days of one-pocket.

gulfportdoc said:

Rod, did you ever see, or hear of, Jack Hill? According to Freddie he was an Oklahoma City player and contemporary of Lingo's who may have had a hand in the early days of one-pocket.

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No he was alone, Didn't know Jack Hill. After Lingo left { heard he went back to Oklahoma.

When Fats went south to learn the game of OP, I believe he learned from Jack Hill. He also gives credit to Jack Hill for inventing the game.
Whitey

In 'Hustler Days' there's a statement in there--- It was said that one pocket was invented by Jack Hill, from Oklahoma, (but who all said it? hmm)


It also says that Fats, back when he was in his twenties, turned one pocket on it's head with his all out offensive game.. He became the gun-toting gangster of one pocket. The originator of power one pocket, so to speak..

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thanks all for digging/recollecting on the subject

here's some cool links re: 1p origins:

I asked and Shamos has never seen it. He looked on WorldCat which is the combined card catalog of many libraries and none has it.

That probably means that if it exists it is in a private collection. Does anyone know where Lingo was in 1963?