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Old 05-07-2015, 11:27 AM
Jeff sparks Jeff sparks is offline
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Default Aiming at the CB?

I've always wondered why Red (Jack Breitkoff, aka Jersey Red) would aim at a specific spot on the CB? Every time! And rarely did it coincide with where he ultimately would strike the CB. Now for those of you who are still around, and watched or even played Red, you know what I'm talking about. I never asked anyone about this, but I was always curious about it. If anyone has insight into the why, I would like very much to learn about it. I'm not sure this question is the appropriate place to air this query, but I know several people who are members here that could quite possibly shed some light on this for me. I always aimed at the appropriate spot for whatever I was trying to accomplish with the CB, Red never did, and he sure as hell accomplished whatever he was trying to do 99.9% of the time!!! He was one of the greatest players of all time at the game of one pocket, and he weren't no slouch at anything on the green felt!

Last edited by Jeff sparks; 05-07-2015 at 01:01 PM.
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Old 05-07-2015, 11:43 AM
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androd androd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff sparks View Post
I've always wondered why Red (Jack Breitkoff, aka Jersey Red) would aim at a specific spot on the CB? Every time! And rarely did it coincide with where he ultimately would strike the CB. Now for those of you who are still around, and watched or even played Red, you know what I'm talking about. I never asked anyone about this, but I was always curious about it. If anyone has insight into the why, I would like very much to learn about it. I'm not sure this question is the appropriate place to air this query, but I know several people who are members here that could quite possibly shed some light on this for me. I always aimed at the appropriate spot for whatever I was trying to accomplish with the CB, Red never did, and he sure as hell accomplished whatever he was trying to do 99.9% of the time!!! He was one of the greatest players of all time at the game of one pocket, and he weren't no slouch at anything on green felt!
Yeah he always addressed the CB low left I think it was.

I asked him about it and he game me some double talk that I didn't understand.

Someone on here mentioned someone else doing the same, don't remember who.

Red was most certainly the best all around player I ever was around.
Billiards, bank pool, straight pool, 9/10 ball, especially 10ball and one pocket.

Rod.
P.S. It was weird to watch him address at low left and strike the CB with high right.
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Old 05-07-2015, 11:44 AM
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Tom Wirth Tom Wirth is offline
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Jeff, I'm surely not the best authority on this subject and I never had the opportunity to play Red, but I know of a few players who did similar things. They just were not as proficient at it as Red. Some of these players always aimed high on the rock and would then drive the tip down for draw. Like you, I wondered why they would do that and the only conclusion I could come up with was simply that this was the way they learned. Habit. I do know there are players who like to initially aim low and then adjust to the vertical level they wish to strike because the base of the cue ball runs directly to the vertical center. This helps them to stay on center a little better than trying to find center right from the start.

I'm more like you and aim the tip right where I want to hit the cue ball, right from the start.

Tom

I see Rod got a post in just ahead of me and his post mentioned low left then adjusted to whatever. I didn't know it was that radical. Wow, interesting but not something I would want to emulate or teach.

Last edited by Tom Wirth; 05-07-2015 at 11:49 AM.
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Old 05-07-2015, 12:21 PM
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SJDinPHX SJDinPHX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff sparks View Post
I've always wondered why Red (Jack Breitkoff, aka Jersey Red) would aim at a specific spot on the CB? Every time! And rarely did it coincide with where he ultimately would strike the CB. Now for those of you who are still around, and watched or even played Red, you know what I'm talking about. I never asked anyone about this, but I was always curious about it. If anyone has insight into the why, I would like very much to learn about it. I'm not sure this question is the appropriate place to air this query, but I know several people who are members here that could quite possibly shed some light on this for me. I always aimed at the appropriate spot for whatever I was trying to accomplish with the CB, Red never did, and he sure as hell accomplished whatever he was trying to do 99.9% of the time!!! He was one of the greatest players of all time at the game of one pocket, and he weren't no slouch at anything on green felt!
Red and I (and Dotty & my wife) were always close friends, so we never really fired at each other, but I have watched him play many times. You are much more observant than I ever was Jeff, as I never really payed that much attention to his, or anyone elses pre-shot routine, as I was always comfortable with my own.

Since I've retired, I now watch a lot more pool video's, and I've noticed many top player's use this method. (SVB for one)...I guess I can't really shed any light, other than to say, I aimed exactly like you, all my life !..If I were to aim at a fixed point, and then change it on the final stroke, I don't think I would ever have made a ball !..It baffles me also ?
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Old 05-07-2015, 12:22 PM
spiderwebcomm spiderwebcomm is offline
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These are pivot-based pocketing methods. I'm not turning this into a CTE or 90/90 thread, because the technique applies to many offset / pivot methods.

There are a lot of variations based on style, but basically:

As a right-hander, the baseline for the starting position is the left side. This can vary from 1/2 tip left of center all the way to the left edge of the CB.

When applying left english, you lock into a CB/OB alignment (as an example, let's say you align the left edge of the CB to the left edge of the OB) and offset your cue and just fire. The squirt "becomes" the pivot adjustment. The angle of the cue varies based on offset. For example, if you offset 1/2 tip to the left and from that position, pivot your tip to the left edge, you'll notice that the shaft is angled to about 10:00 in your field of vision -- that can be your starting position each time (and any angle between that and your 1/2 tip offset).

For center, you pivot into center either before or during.

For right, you pivot to that english position from from the initial starting position on the left side (pivoting or swiping beyond center). Usually, if you need high-right, you'll start at high-left and come all the way over, etc. So, you usually start at the level you're ending at.

That said, you can "X" and start from top-left to low right or vice-versa which usually elevates and "digs" into the CB for draw (somewhat of a masse effect) or results in your cue tip being higher than your backhand to pinch the CB into the table on a force follow.

There's also a variation of the above where you just always start from the opposite side of the intended final tip strike on the CB. So, if you want left english, you're always starting your tip on the right side -- so on and so forth.

Rob Saez, Bustamante, Josh Brothers and Chris Bartram all have similar techniques, if you review past games on Youtube and watch carefully.
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Old 05-07-2015, 12:46 PM
akrick akrick is offline
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Default aiming at cue ball

Cowboy Jimmy Moore did the exact same thing.
Always low left.
Easy to see on the videos that exist.
Lots of video where you can see Bustamonte using the same technique.
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Old 05-07-2015, 12:55 PM
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Drop Pocket Drop Pocket is offline
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Back in the mid '80s I saw that Nick Varner was initially addressing the cue ball extremely low on every shot. When I asked him about it, he simply said it was "an aiming system"
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Old 05-07-2015, 01:21 PM
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Island Drive Island Drive is offline
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I process quirks such as this....no different than walking up to the same shot a ''little different'' just to see it's results. The pleasures of small motions
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Old 05-07-2015, 02:45 PM
Deeman Deeman is offline
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I know many who swear by CTE and I am not looking to get into that type argument but, while knowing there are more than a few ways to skin a cat, I just can't get my head around using anything but the edge of the ball or it's relationship to the object ball. It seems, that adding complexity to the aim process still requires you know where to hit it and how to deliver a straight stroke.

At 62, if I don't know where to hit the ball, swiveling ain't gonna change my shot much. I do know where to deliver the cue ball but the technique to do so may elude a few of us on occasion. In truth, watching Red and Franisco aim, swing and deliver those strokes may always remain beyond us mortals, a bit. John Schmidt has offered to match ball pocketing against any CTE player. I'd show up for that. :-)
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Old 05-07-2015, 04:18 PM
Jeff sparks Jeff sparks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deeman View Post
I know many who swear by CTE and I am not looking to get into that type argument but, while knowing there are more than a few ways to skin a cat, I just can't get my head around using anything but the edge of the ball or it's relationship to the object ball. It seems, that adding complexity to the aim process still requires you know where to hit it and how to deliver a straight stroke.

At 62, if I don't know where to hit the ball, swiveling ain't gonna change my shot much. I do know where to deliver the cue ball but the technique to do so may elude a few of us on occasion. In truth, watching Red and Franisco aim, swing and deliver those strokes may always remain beyond us mortals, a bit. John Schmidt has offered to match ball pocketing against any CTE player. I'd show up for that. :-)
I'm going to show my ignorance a bit here, but I'm 72 and don't worry about that much anymore, so what is IMO, IHMO, and CTE computer shorthand for? Just so I'll be able to understand a smidgen better when reading y'all's posts in the future.
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