Incardona vs. Mathews 1994 Roanoke

gulfportdoc · Apr 5, 2015

Playing at the legendary Guys & Dolls in Roanoke, VA., Bill and Grady are playing to see who would face Dave Bollman in the finals. The commentators, Buddy Hall and W.W. Woody, along with everyone else, are all atwitter over the long awaited contest between these two adversaries, friends and co-commentators. Comments like, "The winner will surely send the loser flowers" are echoing all around the room.

Billy actually broke the balls, but Grady has deftly maneuvered the balls into this layout, putting Bill in trouble. What would you do? What did Bill do? Yes, Bill can see the 14 ball. ~Doc

LSJohn · Apr 5, 2015

gulfportdoc said:
Playing at the legendary Guys & Dolls in Roanoke, VA., Bill and Grady are playing to see who would face Dave Bollman in the finals. The commentators, Buddy Hall and W.W. Woody, along with everyone else, are all atwitter over the long awaited contest between these two adversaries, friends and co-commentators. Comments like, "The winner will surely send the loser flowers" are echoing all around the room.

Billy actually broke the balls, but Grady has deftly maneuvered the balls into this layout, putting Bill in trouble. What would you do? What did Bill do? Yes, Bill can see the 14 ball. ~Doc

View attachment 11910

View attachment 11911

I'm shootin't the 12 in the side (where it spots it goes to my hole but not op's) and dragging the CB toward the 3.

sappo · Apr 5, 2015

gulfportdoc said:
Playing at the legendary Guys & Dolls in Roanoke, VA., Bill and Grady are playing to see who would face Dave Bollman in the finals. The commentators, Buddy Hall and W.W. Woody, along with everyone else, are all atwitter over the long awaited contest between these two adversaries, friends and co-commentators. Comments like, "The winner will surely send the loser flowers" are echoing all around the room.

Billy actually broke the balls, but Grady has deftly maneuvered the balls into this layout, putting Bill in trouble. What would you do? What did Bill do? Yes, Bill can see the 14 ball. ~Doc

View attachment 11910

View attachment 11911

Bill is in big trouble here with no threats. I don't think he will shoot any passive shot here, he must improve his position and create some offensive threats. I like banking the 2 ball into the 8 and 15 ball, to move balls into threatening positions. I would draw the cue ball up table to the middle of the top rail.

Mkbtank · Apr 5, 2015

Incardona vs. Mathews 1994 Roanoke

sappo said:
Bill is in big trouble here with no threats. I don't think he will shoot any passive shot here, he must improve his position and create some offensive threats. I like banking the 2 ball into the 8 and 15 ball, to move balls into threatening positions. I would draw the cue ball up table to the middle of the top rail.

I agree. Gotta get something on his side. He's banking either the 2 or the 9 and bringing the cue to the top rail.

bstroud · Apr 5, 2015

Most of the balls will not go in Grady's pocket so if I can not see the right side of the ball on the end rail I would 2 rail the 14? toward my pocket and put the cue ball on the end rail near my side.

Grady then has to move the 14 ball and leave me a way to remove balls near his pocket.

Bill S.

pvclou · Apr 5, 2015

Incardona vs. Mathews 1994 Roanoke

I like kicking the 3 uptable with a draw stroke if i can get to it. Kill the cue ball right there

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mr3cushion · Apr 5, 2015

As Bill Stroud stated, looks like NO balls go in from the bottom rail! I like this shot, puts another ball by Billy's pocket and the CB on the cush! Limited moving of the CB from there!

The timing has to be PERFECT here, take care to beat the possible kiss, where the brown and white CB lines intersect!

View attachment 11920

LSJohn · Apr 5, 2015

Mkbtank said:
Gotta get something on his side. He's banking either the 2 or the 9 and bringing the cue to the top rail.

OK, I see the merit, but the 2 looks lots better to me than the 9. The 9 mixes balls up by Grady's hole and might open a shot from the top rail leave.

Mkbtank · Apr 5, 2015

Incardona vs. Mathews 1994 Roanoke

LSJohn said:
OK, I see the merit, but the 2 looks lots better to me than the 9. The 9 mixes balls up by Grady's hole and might open a shot from the top rail leave.

Agree. The 2 get to the rail and hits balls coming off.

Tom Wirth · Apr 6, 2015

Here is Keith's aggressive alternative or something like it, which moves a number of balls your way. I like this too.

It doesn't have to be played off the one ball. The eight ball can do the job just about as well.

Tom

gulfportdoc · Apr 6, 2015

Bill came off the 12 ball with an extremely deft touch to get the cueball past the 10 ball and behind the 3. Buddy Hall and W.W. Woody were amazed at the CB control, just barely missing the 10.

I'm surprised that no one chose that option, unless that is what John was suggesting in post #2. I also suspected that someone would have suggested coming thin off the 14. I rather liked Pyclou's shot of kicking the 3 ball up table. But I probably would have just shot to place the CB uptable near the diagonal corner pocket. This is the type of layout that's very difficult to turn around.

As it happened, Grady won the first two games of the match, but Bill came back to win the match, 4-3, and went to face Dave Bollman in the finals.

~Doc

mr3cushion · Apr 6, 2015

gulfportdoc said:
Bill came off the 12 ball with an extremely deft touch to get the cueball past the 10 ball and behind the 3. Buddy Hall and W.W. Woody were amazed at the CB control, just barely missing the 10.

View attachment 11934

View attachment 11935

I'm surprised that no one chose that option, unless that is what John was suggesting in post #2. I also suspected that someone would have suggested coming thin off the 14. I rather liked Pyclou's shot of kicking the 3 ball up table. But I probably would have just shot to place the CB uptable near the diagonal corner pocket. This is the type of layout that's very difficult to turn around.

As it happened, Grady won the first two games of the match, but Bill came back to win the match, 4-3, and went to face Dave Bollman in the finals.

~Doc

Doc; Now Bill is going to be in a way worst position, and a couple of balls open up to Grady's pocket.

Here's what I think NOW.

View attachment 11936

gulfportdoc · Apr 6, 2015

Pretty close. Grady actually played off the 15 ball, and put him back in trouble-- without a billiard past the 10 available now. I assume Bill was trying to get a little below the 3. But it was really just a survivor shot, albeit a very accurate one. Bill had to go up table, which allowed Grady a kick in of the 10. Then he was off to the races.

~Doc

LSJohn · Apr 6, 2015

gulfportdoc said:
unless that is what John was suggesting in post #2.

~Doc

Hmmm. I'm gonna need to be more verbose. :lol

Yes, that's what I was tryin' to say. (But the shot does not require coming that close to the 10. Even hitting the 3 full in the face is OK.)

onepockethacker · Apr 6, 2015

Im a little surprised that Billy didn't try something more aggressive considering the table lay out. He had to know he was going to get to the worst of it.

LSJohn · Apr 6, 2015

onepockethacker said:
Im a little surprised that Billy didn't try something more aggressive considering the table lay out. He had to know he was going to get to the worst of it.

That's why he picked "my" shot. I've given myself the worst of it so many times.....

Reminds me of a story. In the mid-late '60s there was a poker player around Shreveport/Alexandria/Baton Rouge whom everyone called "Cheese." I never knew his real name.

He seemed like a pretty good player, but also seemed to be snakebit. One night we're playing deuce to 7 at the Spot Club in Shreveport. After about his third buy Cheese called all his money off to a big bet and when the opponent showed his hand, Cheese says, "That's good, that's good, that's good. I've said 'That's good' so many times tonight if someone put a turd in my mouth I'd probably say, 'That's good.'"

wincardona · Apr 7, 2015

Not a good choice.

Not a good choice.

I really don't remember what options I had there, but I can honestly say that my choice was a weak one. Yes the execution of the shot was very good, however, it probably wasn't the right shot. This leads me to the recent discussion we had in the .."Wwyd SVB vs Bergman" thread. In that thread Billy Smith chose an option similar to the option I chose in this thread. Despite the fact that Bergman executed the shot to perfection, VanBoening..like Grady..made him/me pay for our perfect execution of the wrong shot.

Sometimes an offensive shot is your best defensive, and something you should look for in situations where you are stumped.

Dr. Bill

gulfportdoc · Apr 7, 2015

Actually I showed it because I thought it was a pretty good shot, especially if the CB had gotten a little lower on the 3 ball. The kick on the 3 ball may not have been available, otherwise you might have selected it.

The match was good, solid one-pocket for the whole contest. Nothing fancy for the highlight reel.

Both made mistakes, which is typical in any race to four-- especially when the bragging right stakes were so high!

BTW, John, a belated cookie to you, if that was the shot you intended. It's still fresh from the oven....

~Doc

wincardona · Apr 7, 2015

wincardona said:
I really don't remember what options I had there, but I can honestly say that my choice was a weak one. Yes the execution of the shot was very good, however, it probably wasn't the right shot. This leads me to the recent discussion we had in the .."Wwyd SVB vs Bergman" thread. In that thread Billy Smith chose an option similar to the option I chose in this thread. Despite the fact that Bergman executed the shot to perfection, VanBoening..like Grady..made him/me pay for our perfect execution of the wrong shot.

Sometimes an offensive shot is your best defensive, and something you should look for in situations where you are stumped.

Dr. Bill

OOPS!!! Almost forgot, always play with a good cue ball when exercising the above suggested option.

Dr. Bill

LSJohn · Apr 7, 2015

gulfportdoc said:
BTW, John, a belated cookie to you, if that was the shot you intended. It's still fresh from the oven....

~Doc

Yum, yum.

Incardona vs. Mathews 1994 Roanoke

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