Whats this spot worth????

you are playing a champion
he is giving you all 3 pockets on your side of the table
he only gets his normal pocket
how strong/weak a spot do you think this is??
i must confess this question was asked on azb
i trust your answers more.....

lll said:

you are playing a champion
he is giving you all 3 pockets on your side of the table
he only gets his normal pocket
how strong/weak a spot do you think this is??
i must confess this question was asked on azb
i trust your answers more.....

Click to expand...

I agree the strength of this spot depends on the skill levels/ strengths and weaknesses of both players. In general, I'm thinking this spot is in the vacinity of 10-6 and the break but ICBW. I've never seen this one in play and I seldom see gaff type games these days.

Martin

I think 10 to 6 is not enough to compare this to.

I will go out on a limb to say this game is worth 8 to 2 maybe 8 to 3. I started with :

By doubling the amount of pockets he can shoot at would be 200 percent increase right?

Now, if he ever does play safe instead of shooting at his three pockets. Where would he want to leave the cueball? And if more than 5 balls go uptable, well then this game looks alot more like 8 to 2.

two cents
CHEERS!

The strength of this would depend largely on the player getting it of course. If he is a player in that he can pocket balls and run a few balls here and there, it is a deadly spot. If the guy getting the spot knows what he is doing at all, he'll be putting the cb behind the stack and getting balls uptable. If he can't pocket balls and has no one hole knowledge it really turns into a workable spot, lol, big assumption.

For a really bad player i'd much rather give him this than say 10 to 3 because at least he has to run some balls and have chances to scratch etc. I'd say 10 to 4 or 10 to 5 area is about what it's worth for a very weak player because they will invariably make bad mistakes running their required 8. That is what pushes the number up.

For a decent player who can pocket balls and knows one hole it is bad. I'd say 10 to 2 or 10 to 3 area. In short, I find it an unworkable spot if the guy can play a lick. I know how strong 10 to 2 is from experience and it is just totally unworkable. So if you can get this go all in, a guy just can't defend against 3 holes all night and you only one.

tonygreen said:

.

I will go out on a limb to say this game is worth 8 to 2 maybe 8 to 3. I started with :

By doubling the amount of pockets he can shoot at would be 200 percent increase right?

Now, if he ever does play safe instead of shooting at his three pockets. Where would he want to leave the cueball? And if more than 5 balls go uptable, well then this game looks alot more like 8 to 2.

two cents
CHEERS!

Click to expand...

Probably not.
Although I have no idea.
Math is never able to handicap these props correctly.
Rod.

In any case, the amount of pockets are being tripled too.

Yeah. having two hundred percent "more" pockets to shoot at.

Generally speaking, the player giving the spot plans to run out before you get 8 balls not 2 or 3. He's not planning on pushing them up the table.
Rod.

for what its worth here is the thread
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=292695
apparently the guy who got the spot was a shooter
the guy he played SMOTHERED him with always being stuck froze to something and he never got to shoot
an interesting comment was instead of getting all pockets on your side ask for the corner opposite your side
ie diagonal from your pocket
that would stop him the better player from putting balls uptable on his side for potential banks for him because he would be puting them near "your" pocket

I would have to guess the guy wasn't thinking right, wasn't learning with every shot, was ooohing and ahhhing every time the champ did something "amazing" and lost confidence every shot. You will lose with any spot like that. Not often discussed, but one of the most important things in sports is not having an excuse to lose before you start. Playing champs this is a big problem, but it really doesn't have to be. I could be wrong too of course, maybe the spot is actually not that much. I have no idea how the guy plays either.

I play this guy often (for years), but usually in 14.1. This was my first 1pkt session. My best session in 14.1 was 150-87 (and he's 50/50 to run a 100 - and has countless times w/ me). So, I can play a LITTLE. I certainly wasn't ooohing and ahhhhing.

Going into that game, I thought (literally) no one on planet earth could spot me that. He said there's a tactic for that exact spot--- he's CLEARLY mastered that tactic.

I beat at least 90% of the one hole players in my regional room. I also beat at least 90% of the 14.1 players in my regional room.

I suspect, I could prob beat many of the players in this thread as well (just guessing, statistically. I'm not a "bad" one pocket player.

The feedback he gave me was "it's NOT a big spot" and people get sucked in to thinking it's the world until they realize they're playing the person even before too long. It IS a spot, but not as big as you think.

I literally had zero shots at any pocket ever. The other 2 pockets never came into play. I won 1 game because he missed a ball on a skid and I had something like 8 balls total in the remainder of the games.

I've played a lot of one hole and I've NEVER been so suffocated in my life.

I think this spot has a LITTLE to do w/ the person getting weight and EVERYTHING to do w/ the person giving it. Unless you have the capability to have exacting CB control to create a level of suffocation where someone is forced to do something that sells-out, you have zero chance of winning w/ that game. Good CB placement isn't going to allow someone to win w/ giving that spot--- absolute perfect CB placement and triple-smart brains combined will allow one to win w/ that.

It was a reality check with me for sure. If anyone is in my area would like to get a reality check, I'm sure I could arrange it.

spiderwebcomm said:

I play this guy often (for years), but usually in 14.1. This was my first 1pkt session. My best session in 14.1 was 150-87 (and he's 50/50 to run a 100 - and has countless times w/ me). So, I can play a LITTLE. I certainly wasn't ooohing and ahhhhing.

Going into that game, I thought (literally) no one on planet earth could spot me that. He said there's a tactic for that exact spot--- he's CLEARLY mastered that tactic.

I beat at least 90% of the one hole players in my regional room. I also beat at least 90% of the 14.1 players in my regional room.

I suspect, I could prob beat many of the players in this thread as well (just guessing, statistically. I'm not a "bad" one pocket player.

The feedback he gave me was "it's NOT a big spot" and people get sucked in to thinking it's the world until they realize they're playing the person even before too long. It IS a spot, but not as big as you think.

I literally had zero shots at any pocket ever. The other 2 pockets never came into play. I won 1 game because he missed a ball on a skid and I had something like 8 balls total in the remainder of the games.

I've played a lot of one hole and I've NEVER been so suffocated in my life.

I think this spot has a LITTLE to do w/ the person getting weight and EVERYTHING to do w/ the person giving it. Unless you have the capability to have exacting CB control to create a level of suffocation where somewhere is forced to do something that sells-out, you have zero chance of winning w/ that game. Good CB placement isn't going to allow someone to win w/ that spot--- absolute perfect CB placement and triple-smart brains combined will allow one to win w/ that.

It was a reality check with me for sure. If anyone is in my area would like to get a reality check, I'm sure I could arrange it.

Click to expand...

Welcome to the site. Thanks for the update.
Rod.

androd said:

Welcome to the site. Thanks for the update.
Rod.

Click to expand...

I've been a lurker here for years. Thx

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spiderwebcomm said:

I've been a lurker here for years. Thx

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

Click to expand...

I'm the worst player on this thread. I'll take the spot. If you can smother me, so be it.

spiderwebcomm said:

I play this guy often (for years), but usually in 14.1. This was my first 1pkt session. My best session in 14.1 was 150-87 (and he's 50/50 to run a 100 - and has countless times w/ me). So, I can play a LITTLE. I certainly wasn't ooohing and ahhhhing.

Going into that game, I thought (literally) no one on planet earth could spot me that. He said there's a tactic for that exact spot--- he's CLEARLY mastered that tactic.

I beat at least 90% of the one hole players in my regional room. I also beat at least 90% of the 14.1 players in my regional room.

I suspect, I could prob beat many of the players in this thread as well (just guessing, statistically. I'm not a "bad" one pocket player.

The feedback he gave me was "it's NOT a big spot" and people get sucked in to thinking it's the world until they realize they're playing the person even before too long. It IS a spot, but not as big as you think.

I literally had zero shots at any pocket ever. The other 2 pockets never came into play. I won 1 game because he missed a ball on a skid and I had something like 8 balls total in the remainder of the games.

I've played a lot of one hole and I've NEVER been so suffocated in my life.

I think this spot has a LITTLE to do w/ the person getting weight and EVERYTHING to do w/ the person giving it. Unless you have the capability to have exacting CB control to create a level of suffocation where someone is forced to do something that sells-out, you have zero chance of winning w/ that game. Good CB placement isn't going to allow someone to win w/ giving that spot--- absolute perfect CB placement and triple-smart brains combined will allow one to win w/ that.

It was a reality check with me for sure. If anyone is in my area would like to get a reality check, I'm sure I could arrange it.

Click to expand...

i also would like to welcome you to the site
i hope you didnt mind me putting your thread here....
i also hope freddy, billy,onepockthacker,sjd, ghost will also put their opinions in the fire
maybe lenny could ask scott what he thinks
maybe feeddy could ask artie what he thinks

There's a big difference between a SUPER one pocket player who allows "some" breathing and an ELITE player who gives ZERO. I've played REALLY REALLY good 1-pocket players where I get to see the bottom of the CB once in a while. I was constantly jacked-up and not seeing the bottom of the CB - for hours.

Pair that with that elite guy giving the spot has "mastered" giving the weight strategy-wise playing someone like me who had zero experience getting that weight or playing that style game.

I liken this to going to the Masters a few years ago during one of the practice rounds. Although I've been to PGA events, I've never been to an event where the players were in such a zone. Although I've seen Nick Faldo countless times on TV, standing right behind him as he drove it perfectly in the fairway, continued to kicked the ball in the rough and buried it so you couldn't see white -- and then have him knife it to 3' from the stick -- gives you a different perspective of speed.

Jose Maria Olazabal won it that year. I watched him drop 20 balls in the green-side bunker and blast one short and roll it to the pin, blast one long and suck it back to the pin (and repeatedly alternate between blasting short and sucking back). That speed, gentlemen, is TOTALLY DIFFERENT than your local CHAMPION who might shoot one or two under consistently at the local club.

So, playing local 1pkt heavy-weights and doing well may not prepare you for the heat you encounter, the WEIRD MOVES you're left with, or the error-free suffocation (non-stop) over lengthy periods of time you find with a HOF caliber player.

I suspect unless someone plays a really good speed AND has played with that spot before to acquire enough experience to offset the tactics being employed on you, this game "isn't quite what it seems."

Anyways, I'm totally OK with people calling me a loser and "can't play" comments (since my opinion was that no one could spot me that before I played). I would have made the same posts, believe me. I was lent a little perspective the other day and it is what it is. Sometimes you're the bug, sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're a pigeon flying in front of an Airbus A320. I was the pigeon the other day and it made me a more street smart player. I learned not to assume anything and always proceed with caution, no matter how well you think you play.

When this player told me he spotted people far above my level the same spot (afterwards, of course) and told me he didn't think it was a ton of weight as long as I had to go to 8, I believe him. Those other 2 pockets really never came into play. I felt as though I was playing him even, based on where my innings were starting from. I really had VERY limited chances to develop the muck in such a way to use those pockets. Whenever I broke, I tried to break every which way to Sunday to start the game in a good position, but mostly I ended up not getting to the first shot first and he just ran out, every time.

Anyways, thanks for welcoming me here--- I've been reading for a long time.


P.s. I just spoke to him to get more clarification. He said you cant equate pocket spots to ball spots, it depends on your opponent. Everything being totally equal, they're a lot of weight. Even though the side pocket isn't worth much, if he' playing Efren, it's the world. It's the corner pocket he was protecting against.

I might like ball spots a LOT more. Just my new humble opinion.

spiderwebcomm said:

I play this guy often (for years), but usually in 14.1. This was my first 1pkt session. My best session in 14.1 was 150-87 (and he's 50/50 to run a 100 - and has countless times w/ me). So, I can play a LITTLE. I certainly wasn't ooohing and ahhhhing.

Going into that game, I thought (literally) no one on planet earth could spot me that. He said there's a tactic for that exact spot--- he's CLEARLY mastered that tactic.

I beat at least 90% of the one hole players in my regional room. I also beat at least 90% of the 14.1 players in my regional room.

I suspect, I could prob beat many of the players in this thread as well (just guessing, statistically. I'm not a "bad" one pocket player.

The feedback he gave me was "it's NOT a big spot" and people get sucked in to thinking it's the world until they realize they're playing the person even before too long. It IS a spot, but not as big as you think.

I literally had zero shots at any pocket ever. The other 2 pockets never came into play. I won 1 game because he missed a ball on a skid and I had something like 8 balls total in the remainder of the games.

I've played a lot of one hole and I've NEVER been so suffocated in my life.

I think this spot has a LITTLE to do w/ the person getting weight and EVERYTHING to do w/ the person giving it. Unless you have the capability to have exacting CB control to create a level of suffocation where someone is forced to do something that sells-out, you have zero chance of winning w/ that game. Good CB placement isn't going to allow someone to win w/ giving that spot--- absolute perfect CB placement and triple-smart brains combined will allow one to win w/ that.

It was a reality check with me for sure. If anyone is in my area would like to get a reality check, I'm sure I could arrange it.

Click to expand...

Spideyman,

Good to see you posting over here...I can understand your reluctance to name this player, but I have never heard of Reye's or Frost giving up this particular prop game, (ICBW, although I'm sure they could).. so it must be someone else.. I can however, visualize several player's, who I'm quite sure, could give you the same game.

I know you are not helpless, and you may not be 'oohing and ahhing', but he obviously has your attention, and your respect, to the point where you may not be playing the game, at your best level. (whatever that may be)

I will assume you are playing a normal game, (except for the spot) ie; 8 to 8, break about ? If thats the case, what are you doing on your break ? And what is he doing on his ?

The side pocket means almost zero, and if he keeps you from shooting at anything near either of your corner pockets, you are definately in deep do-do. Apparently, that is what he is doing.

If I may, I'd like to suggest you forget the prop game, and try and match up a normal 'spot' game, (10/6, 9/6, 8/6)...or whatever you think you need to have a chance..Obviously this game is not for you, and is not as good as it looks on paper.

PS..Either that, or you may have your one pocket game slightly over-rated ?..(I've done that more than once. )...Good Luck..

LATE EDIT; I see I was preparing my post, as you were posting yours (#17)...Lots of duplicate thoughts..:sorry:

SJDinPHX said:

Spideyman,

Good to see you posting over here...I can understand your reluctance to name this player, but I have never heard of Reye's or Frost giving up this prop game, (ICBW, although I'm sure they could).. so it must be someone else.. I can however, visualize several player's, who I'm quite sure, could give you the same game.

I know you are not helpless, and you may not be 'oohing and ahhing', but he obviously has your attention, and your respect, to the point where you may not be playing the game, at your best level. (whatever that may be)

I will assume you are playing a normal game, (except for the spot) ie; 8 to 8, break about ? If thats the case, what are you doing on your break ? And what is he doing on his ?

The side pocket means almost zero, and if he keeps you from shooting at anything near either of your corner pockets, you are definately in deep do-do. Apparently, that is what he is doing.

If I may, I'd like to suggest you forget the prop game, and try and match up a normal 'spot' game, (10/6, 9/6, 8/5) whatever you think you need to have a chance..Obviously this game is not for you, and is not as good as it looks on paper.

PS..Either that, or you may have your one pocket game slightly over-rated ?..(I've done that more than once. )...Good Luck..

LATE EDIT; I see I was preparing my post, as you were posting yours (#17)...Lots of duplicate thoughts..:sorry:

Click to expand...

I think next time I'll play even ball-wise and pocket-wise. That way, I can get a ball average per game and a true rating based on that ability of a player.

Every time I broke other than a standard break, either a ball crept out and I lost or I didn't get to the first shot and I lost.

I don't think I over-rate my game. . I know I'm not the best. I'm just saying my experiences and successes with great players are night/day to the HOF player. Can't compare. They're not in proportion.


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Spider Welcome ...thanks for posting!

Thanks to SanJose for his thoughtful addition, as he said it sounds good on paper!

Im interested to hear if you can win against him and how playing with one pocket each (traditional) and the spot you end up with.

cheers !