You vs. opponent 21

El Chapo

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A ball is out of play, and I have literally a straight in ball for the game. Isn't this the situation we manauever our asses off to get into? The bridging even looks fairly comfortable to me considering how low the backing on that particular pocket is.

I don't know guys, I'm not saying you can't win a game like this by squeezing, but i just don't agree with giving him that ball.

The other thing I feel isn't getting brought up, how many times have you seen the best ball strikers in the world here get only one, maybe two from the hanging 14 position. People tend to fear the worst in pool, because it does happen occasionally, but it's hard to run even three balls from that hanging 14 position. Odds are the guy is gonna get two, maybe three and you'll be back fighting it out after just having shot at the game, I like those odds. I do realize a great player could get them all, but odds are seriously with you that you are gonna get back to the table after he misses the bank on that ball that's out of play, and now you are in an even money situation, but you just shot at the game too. Just how I look at it.
 
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J.R.

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If he is indeed a strong player, I'm cutting the 1 ball pocket speed. I think this angle gives me the biggest pocket to make or hang the ball up, plus I'm not that straight of shooter for the 11. At least there is that ball near the opposite corner that is somewhat out of play if things don't go as planned.

This may be my only chance to win this game.

Dave
The rationale that this may be your only chance to win the game is not indicative of the score.

Do not play this segment of the "end" game scared

YOU have already made 7 balls compared to his 4 balls!

Don't be intimidated that your opponent is a "strong" player when YOU are on the hill of winning and your opponent will need 3 balls that are all down table.

The correct percentage shot would be to play the ball in the jaws of his pocket based on the layout of the three remaining balls.
 

gulfportdoc

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Let me pinch myself to make sure I'm awake. Are you sure you agree with me? That's a first.:)

On a side note Doc, I'm having some pretty bad pain originating from my sacrorilliac joint. It feels like the pain is radiating down the left side of my left leg, almost like "to the bone pain, if you know what I mean. Had a cat scan taken about a month ago going to my doctor today to hear what he thinks. Any suggestions? DR. Bill
Heh, heh. Oh stop it, Bill. I agree with you 50% of the time. So 50% correct choices isn't too bad for you, it it??:)

Jokes aside, I thought you were going over to Germany to see a specialist? I believe you've been to Texas Back Institute. They certainly have high credibility. One of the top cancer specialists in the world at MD Anderson Cancer Center had his back surgery done by a top guy at Baylor Hospital in Houston. I figure this particular patient probably knew something.;) I can get his name for you if you like.

A good chiropractor might be able to provide some relief. Of course I can't do anything from 9 hours away. But there's nothing better for chronic back/hip pain than swimming, and/or swimming pool exercises. I'm sure there's a facility near you. Most pools have back pain classes. If you have access to a private pool, that's even better. Let me know...

~Doc
 

El Chapo

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The rationale that this may be your only chance to win the game is not indicative of the score.

Do not play this segment of the "end" game scared

YOU have already made 7 balls compared to his 4 balls!

Don't be intimidated that your opponent is a "strong" player when YOU are on the hill of winning and your opponent will need 3 balls that are all down table.

The correct percentage shot would be to play the ball in the jaws of his pocket based on the layout of the three remaining balls.
That sounds sorta nice. Then how many times have we seen a guy shoot your shot, and then scratch two innings later? I could be off, but I swear when people "play the score" they seem to sort of assume they aren't going to make any cueball errors the rest of the game, as if the guy isn't capable of leaving you in difficult positions. The other thing I feel like I've noticed, people in here are always ducking, and when you watch these guys play, they're always shooting. Why do we think that is? I think it's exactly for the reasons I've stated; they've learned when they don't take offensive opposrtunities to win games they're liable to make a defensive mistake later that evens things up or worse, or the guy swings at something and makes it and it's even or worse. I'll admit I could be wrong, but I think this is one of those games where we all sit around and talk about it for a month, but any top player would just get up there and shoot the 11 straight in without even thinking and walk back to his chair like it was nothing... which it is if you play pool everyday you are suppose to shoot and make that if you like winning. If you don't like winning I can totally see bunting here :heh
 
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Tom Wirth

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That sounds sorta nice. Then how many times have we seen a guy shoot your shot, and then scratch two innings later? I could be off, but I swear when people "play the score" they seem to sort of assume they aren't going to make any cueball errors the rest of the game, as if the guy isn't capable of leaving you in difficult positions. Keep in mind that goes both ways.The other thing I feel like I've noticed, people in here are always ducking, and when you watch these guys play, they're always shooting. Why do we think that is? I think it's exactly for the reasons I've stated; they've learned when they don't take offensive opposrtunities to win games they're liable to make a defensive mistake later that evens things up or worse, or the guy swings at something and makes it and it's even or worse. I'll admit I could be wrong, but I think this is one of those games where we all sit around and talk about it for a month, but any top player would just get up there and shoot the 11 straight in without even thinking and walk back to his chair like it was nothing... Believe me, no top player is going to step up to that shot and shoot without considering the repercussions of a miss.
which it is if you play pool everyday you are suppose to shoot and make that if you like winning. If you don't like winning I can totally see bunting here :heh
As I stated earlier, From day to day, hour to hour, a player, any player, at whatever level his game may choose to shoot or pass and play safe. In a situation like this it really will come down to the level of confidence at the time. Both options have their merit. Both have their draw backs.

The bank on the 11 from out of that corner is not an even money bank for even a top player and once he misses that shot it will be an easy task for his opponent to clear that ball and secure the remaining balls out of play. It is fine to want to shoot at your hole but in this case all these balls are in play and any missed offensive shot here, whether it be the 11 or the 1 can cost the game in this single inning. That is not to say shooting is the wrong shot. It would be hard to argue against the player who takes the offensive shot and makes it, but if the shot is missed and not at least hung in the jaws, it would be much harder for the shooter to justify having taken that shot.

Tom
 

El Chapo

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As I stated earlier, From day to day, hour to hour, a player, any player, at whatever level his game may choose to shoot or pass and play safe. In a situation like this it really will come down to the level of confidence at the time. Both options have their merit. Both have their draw backs.

The bank on the 11 from out of that corner is not an even money bank for even a top player and once he misses that shot it will be an easy task for his opponent to clear that ball and secure the remaining balls out of play. It is fine to want to shoot at your hole but in this case all these balls are in play and any missed offensive shot here, whether it be the 11 or the 1 can cost the game in this single inning. That is not to say shooting is the wrong shot. It would be hard to argue against the player who takes the offensive shot and makes it, but if the shot is missed and not at least hung in the jaws, it would be much harder for the shooter to justify having taken that shot.

Tom
I'm a spearfisherman. Every single fish you line up you have a choice, and it's always the same. You can take the sort of awkward shot you have in the original moments, or, you can sit around and gently follow him waiting for the perfect side shot, and pray that his lateral line doesn't pick up your fin movements and freak him out. I have been doing it a long time, and believe me, when you get a good shot, you take it or you go home feeling like an absolute ***** having watched the only good fish you saw all day merrily swim off, practically laughing at you. I hope at least looking at it through an analogy was able to amuse someone. :)
 
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12squared

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The rationale that this may be your only chance to win the game is not indicative of the score.

Do not play this segment of the "end" game scared

YOU have already made 7 balls compared to his 4 balls!

Don't be intimidated that your opponent is a "strong" player when YOU are on the hill of winning and your opponent will need 3 balls that are all down table.

The correct percentage shot would be to play the ball in the jaws of his pocket based on the layout of the three remaining balls.
Thanks for your thoughtful response. Although I agree with you, I have lost many games trying to play "smart"...I'd rather go down swinging (cautiously). As my friend John Henderson once said to me, "Don't ever safe yourself out of a win" (or something like that).
 

El Chapo

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Thanks for your thoughtful response. Although I agree with you, I have lost many games trying to play "smart"...I'd rather go down swinging (cautiously). As my friend John Henderson once said to me, "Don't ever safe yourself out of a win" (or something like that).
Haha. Yeah, the "score" here is I got seven, and I'm straight in on a ball. That's the score. :heh
 

Tom Wirth

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El Chapo, How many fish have shot back at you when you missed hitting them?
Cool sport though. I"ll bet it's very exciting and lots of fun.
:D

Tom
 

El Chapo

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El Chapo, How many fish have shot back at you when you missed hitting them?
Cool sport though. I"ll bet it's very exciting and lots of fun.
:D

Tom
When they swim off without taking a shot at them, it's every bit as frustrating as a guy getting out on you. It's interesting I brought up the analogy as a joke, but the more I think about it the more it works for me. I'd just rather have a shot at him than no shot at all. I don't care how good things look I may never get that shot again.
 

Tom Wirth

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When they swim off without taking a shot at them, it's every bit as frustrating as a guy getting out on you. It's interesting I brought up the analogy as a joke, but the more I think about it the more it works for me. I'd just rather have a shot at him than no shot at all. I don't care how good things look I may never get that shot again.
Two things, First, this last statement sounds rather fatalistic (why would you think you won't get another shot at your hole? You managed to get enough shots to reach 7 balls) and second, it also sounds like you don't care to do the work it takes to get another more reasonable shot later in the game. One which carries less risk.

I like aggressiveness in this game. After all, that's the name of my book but I also added a caveat. Control. In this case that equals patience. However, once again, if you take the shot and make it, I would congratulate you and pay you off. Nice shot! If I'm sitting in the chair and see most anyone playing that shot I wouldn't mind.

Tom
 

One Pocket Ghost

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If he is indeed a strong player, I'm cutting the 1 ball pocket speed. I think this angle gives me the biggest pocket to make or hang the ball up, plus I'm not that straight of shooter for the 11. At least there is that ball near the opposite corner that is somewhat out of play if things don't go as planned.

Dave
I originally set up this layout because I had remembered being in this same position in a game...

I wasn't in a hill-hill tournament situation though, as I have depicted the situation to be here - I was gambling for $30 a game...that said, I felt just as Dave did/posted above...and so my choice was to cut the 1ball at pocket speed..cuz like Dave, I prefer that type of cut shot over shooting a mid-table straight in long shot...

My result was..I didn't make the shot, but almost did, and my pocket speed was good, so I didn't leave my opponent a cross-corner - I left the 1 loosely in the jaws of my pocket...he then dug out the 1, and then I made his 14ball.

- Ghost
 
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El Chapo

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Two things, First, this last statement sounds rather fatalistic (why would you think you won't get another shot at your hole? You managed to get enough shots to reach 7 balls) and second, it also sounds like you don't care to do the work it takes to get another more reasonable shot later in the game. One which carries less risk.

I like aggressiveness in this game. After all, that's the name of my book but I also added a caveat. Control. In this case that equals patience. However, once again, if you take the shot and make it, I would congratulate you and pay you off. Nice shot! If I'm sitting in the chair and see most anyone playing that shot I wouldn't mind.

Tom
Why do I think I won't get another straight in ball, from off the rail? It was stated I was playing a good to great one pocket player. Those sorts of people tend to make very good one pocket shots quite frequently.

I would just turn the question around and say why would you think you'd get another good shot? The first shot the guy is gonna have is a very makeable bank.

I think your logic applies just as much against you as it does for you. Your being very fatalistic to think you don't have a great shot at winning this game even if you miss the 11 ball.

We could go on forever, the truth is you're waiting for a shot against a good player who's got his back against a wall and is capable of anything, and I'm shooting at a straight in ball, and I like my chances even if I miss! That's really it, that's all there is to it, not too much more to discuss... just two different choices.
 
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El Chapo

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I originally set up this layout because I had remembered being in this same position in a game...

I wasn't in a hill-hill tournament situation though, as I have depicted the situation to be here - I was gambling for $30 a game...that said, I felt just as Dave did/posted above...and so my choice was to cut the 1ball at pocket speed..cuz like Dave, I prefer that type of cut shot over shooting a mid-table straight in long shot...

My result was..I didn't make the shot, but almost did, and my pocket speed was good, so I didn't leave my opponent a cross-corner - I left the 1 loosely in the jaws of my pocket...he then dug out the 1, and then I made his 14ball.

- Ghost
I personally think almost anybody would agree if they really take an objective look back on the balls they've shot with the attitude of "I can at least hang this or get it close to my hole (not that this is exactly what you're saying)" is that they'll miss that ball. I know for a fact it's true for me. When balls go in, is when I step up to the table with some actual balls, for lack of a better word, and concentrate on one thing: shooting a ball in the hole. Not missing and where things will end up, not half playing safe... shooting a ball in the hole. I don't think you need any help, but I'd genuinely offer, try it out. See if that mentality improves your accuracy. I know it will 100% if you truly commit to it.
 

Tom Wirth

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Why do I think I won't get another straight in ball, from off the rail? It was stated I was playing a good to great one pocket player. Those sorts of people tend to make very good one pocket shots quite frequently.

I would just turn the question around and say why would you think you'd get another good shot? Because I have a strong end game and move well. The first shot the guy is gonna have is a very makeable bank. As you say, this shot is very makeable for a top player but I will never assume he will make it as much as 40%. He will still have to prove it to me.

I think your logic applies just as much against you as it does for you. Your being very fatalistic to think you don't have a great shot at winning this game even if you miss the 11 ball.

We could go on forever, the truth is you're waiting for a shot against a good player who's got his back against a wall and is capable of anything, and I'm shooting at a straight in ball, and I like my chances even if I miss! That's really it, that's all there is to it, not too much more to discuss... just two different choices.
El Chapo, I never said the offensive shot was a poor choice. If you have confidence in yourself then by all means shoot for the win. My point then as it is now is all about how confident do you feel at the time you step to the table. Would you shoot either the 11 or 1 ball every time you are confronted with this situation? Wouldn't the recent past have a bearing on your confidence level? A shot like that becomes much more difficult if you had made a recent mistake or if you have been forced into playing a long series of safeties and have not had an opportunity to let your stroke out for some time.

But you are right, Bantering back and forth over this is not necessary. I agree with your reasoning for taking the shot. If I had weighed my options and concluded that I liked my chances, I'd take the shot too. :)

Tom
 
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wincardona

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Heh, heh. Oh stop it, Bill. I agree with you 50% of the time. So 50% correct choices isn't too bad for you, it it??:)

Jokes aside, I thought you were going over to Germany to see a specialist? I believe you've been to Texas Back Institute. They certainly have high credibility. One of the top cancer specialists in the world at MD Anderson Cancer Center had his back surgery done by a top guy at Baylor Hospital in Houston. I figure this particular patient probably knew something.;) I can get his name for you if you like.

A good chiropractor might be able to provide some relief. Of course I can't do anything from 9 hours away. But there's nothing better for chronic back/hip pain than swimming, and/or swimming pool exercises. I'm sure there's a facility near you. Most pools have back pain classes. If you have access to a private pool, that's even better. Let me know...

~Doc
What type of swimming exercises would you reccomend?
I have a pool but never use it, now I have a reason to get into that cold water. Lol

Thanks Doc.

DR. Bill
 
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