You vs. opponent 21

gulfportdoc

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Why firm/hard? There is a lot of value in hanging it in your pocket. As long as you don't bring the ball up more than 4-6" on the side rail he has no return other than getting rid of the ball. Firm just gives him another ball to possibly get shape on after potting the hanger.
Nick, my thinking is that it's easier to hang the 1 than it is the 11. Therefore the 11 is probably best shot a little firmer than the 1 would be, so as not to leave a cross-corner. NB: I wouldn't shoot either one.

~Doc
 

gulfportdoc

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After years of deliberation...lol. I have finally come to the conclusion that there is no blanket answer to the question on when it's right to shoot. There are just too many considerations one could have to make an intelligent decision. I'm not just talking about who your opponent is or what size pockets the table has but also how efficient one is with certain type of shots, not only in terms of accuracy but speed as well. For some cutting the 1ball would be the best choice because of how consistently one would be with getting the 1ball to the pocket or end rail without leaving a return shot if missed. I believe the choice of options should be between the 1ball or 14ball, playing the 11ball imo shouldn't be the best choice for most, but then again not to be ruled totally against.
My first inclination would be to pocket the 14ball but if I were confident with the speed of the 1ball choice then I would lean to that option.
It mostly depends on how we feel about whatever decision we choose, that imo is the correct shot. Dr. Bill
Bill, this post is grammatically superb...;)

~Doc
 

OneRock

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I don't care how well I feel about going for either the 1 or the 11. Regardless of my opponent's skill level, I will always go with what I deem to be the right choice from a percentages standpoint: pocket his 14 and leave him near his pocket with the remaining balls and the score both favoring you.

Everyone is assuming the ball will be in the jaws of the pocket if missed. I say you're more likely to leave an easy cross bank if you do, which he'll almost surely make right after dropping the 14. With the score at 7-6, he will likely leave himself a straight-back giving him the opportunity to tie the game. You already know exactly how that feels because countless times you've been on both sides of such a predicament.

It's not like you're trying to shoot your way out of trouble; you're inviting trouble.
 
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wincardona

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Bill, this post is grammatically superb...;)

~Doc
Let me pinch myself to make sure I'm awake. Are you sure you agree with me? That's a first.:)

On a side note Doc, I'm having some pretty bad pain originating from my sacrorilliac joint. It feels like the pain is radiating down the left side of my left leg, almost like "to the bone pain, if you know what I mean. Had a cat scan taken about a month ago going to my doctor today to hear what he thinks. Any suggestions?


DR. Bill
 

lll

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I don't care how well I feel about going for either the 1 or the 11. Regardless of my opponent's skill level, I will always go with what I deem to be the right choice from a percentages standpoint: pocket his 14 and leave him near his pocket with the remaining balls and the score both favoring you.

Everyone is assuming the ball will be in the jaws of the pocket if missed. I say you're more likely to leave an easy cross bank if you do, which he'll almost surely make right after dropping the 14. With the score at 7-6, he will likely leave himself a straight-back giving him the opportunity to tie the game. You already know exactly how that feels because countless times you've been on both sides of such a predicament.

It's not like you're trying to shoot your way out of trouble; you're inviting trouble.
great point
 

cincy_kid

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I know I am probably more on the gopher side than some but I don't care who I am playing, I am shooting that 11 straight in my hole. I am jacking up a bit and spearing it. If I miss its coming back down probably by the head rail, I am going for the win.

If I miss, which I am probably only 30% favorite to make the 11 (at best), the only way I lose on the next shot is my opponent has to:

1) make the 14 in his hole and get shape on the 1 (which is a little tough)
2) make some sort of bank on the 11 or 10
3) make some sort of bank on the 11 or 10

I like my odds of getting back to the table and having a cross corner for the win when he misses one of the 2 banks he has to make.

Even if the 11 comes out where he can make it without banking it, he STILL is going to have to bank that 10 at some point and its no so easy from there.

I'm going down with the ship if I have to but I am shooting for the win here.
 

OneRock

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"I'm going down with the ship if I have to..."

The ship isn't sinking. That's a statement you would make if you found yourself having to shoot your way out of trouble. But if you're intent on shooting a 30% shot in this situation, you're really shooting yourself in the foot.

I know I am probably more on the gopher side than some but I don't care who I am playing, I am shooting that 11 straight in my hole. I am jacking up a bit and spearing it. If I miss its coming back down probably by the head rail, I am going for the win.

If I miss, which I am probably only 30% favorite to make the 11 (at best), the only way I lose on the next shot is my opponent has to:

1) make the 14 in his hole and get shape on the 1 (which is a little tough)
2) make some sort of bank on the 11 or 10
3) make some sort of bank on the 11 or 10

I like my odds of getting back to the table and having a cross corner for the win when he misses one of the 2 banks he has to make.

Even if the 11 comes out where he can make it without banking it, he STILL is going to have to bank that 10 at some point and its no so easy from there.

I'm going down with the ship if I have to but I am shooting for the win here.
 
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Jeff sparks

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I don't care how well I feel about going for either the 1 or the 11. Regardless of my opponent's skill level, I will always go with what I deem to be the right choice from a percentages standpoint: pocket his 14 and leave him near his pocket with the remaining balls and the score both favoring you.

Everyone is assuming the ball will be in the jaws of the pocket if missed. I say you're more likely to leave an easy cross bank if you do, which he'll almost surely make right after dropping the 14. With the score at 7-6, he will likely leave himself a straight-back giving him the opportunity to tie the game. You already know exactly how that feels because countless times you've been on both sides of such a predicament.

It's not like you're trying to shoot your way out of trouble; you're inviting trouble.
Excellent assessment... And you're exactly right about the last part...you're not in trouble, so why invite it when the score and the position both favor you... Good points all...
 

12squared

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If he is indeed a strong player, I'm cutting the 1 ball pocket speed. I think this angle gives me the biggest pocket to make or hang the ball up, plus I'm not that straight of shooter for the 11. At least there is that ball near the opposite corner that is somewhat out of play if things don't go as planned.

This may be my only chance to win this game.

Dave
 

GoldCrown

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With situations like this it comes down to "how do I feel about shooting for the win". If my confidence is high than I see no fault in going for it but if there is any doubt in my mind about my making this shot then it's time to pass and pocket the 14.

Making the 14 here can never be considered a poor option but it does put your opponent back the table where anything can still happen. Shooting and making either the one or 11 ends the game immediately and that is always the main objective. So bottom line is if you elect to shoot for the win, miss and sell out, be prepared to face the music and blame no one but yourself.

Tom
If there is doubt about playing the 14 or going for win...go down executing?
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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If my opponent is a great banker then choosing to pocket the 14 is a harder option, for they will bank the 11 and your right back in the same scenario with either the 11 in the pocket or pocketed.
But, if they are not known for strong banking then the option to pocket the 14 is very viable, and by leaving the cb frozen on the end rail close to their pocket they now have to back bank the 11 which has a built in cross corner cb scratch. So a little reverse or inside english is needed to protect against the scratch, and there is also a consideration of not leaving a return shot on the 1. All this makes it harder for a not so strong banker!

I agree with Billy that taking the 1 over the 11 is the better option for burying the ball in the pocket, but I also recognize that the end game favors taking the 11 for it is harder to get shape on the 1 or to bank it, as Billy points out. But, also if the 1 is moved it opens up the 10 for a double out of the corner bank for the opponent. This is the key shot for it is the game winning bank for the opponent, and has to be protected against.

So the bottom line I am taking the 11 if I am playing a great banker, but if they are not a strong banker I am pocketing the 14.

But if I am shooting the 11 it is with "no" english, jacking up can throw off the shot! Whitey
 

Tom Wirth

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If there is doubt about playing the 14 or going for win...go down executing?
Ummm, no. Pocket the 14 if you have even the slightest doubt about your chances of winning the game by going for either the 1 or 11. You had better shoot damn straight if you're going that route.

I hope you were joking but I never know with you G.C. :D

Tom
 

GoldCrown

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Ummm, no. Pocket the 14 if you have even the slightest doubt about your chances of winning the game by going for either the 1 or 11. You had better shoot damn straight if you're going that route.

I hope you were joking but I never know with you G.C. :D

Tom
I carry pennies for various reasons..... I tend to flip a coin for major decisions. The 14 would be a firm choice...especially for me....unless I'm at my clubhouse:lol
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Let me pinch myself to make sure I'm awake. Are you sure you agree with me? That's a first.:)

On a side note Doc, I'm having some pretty bad pain originating from my sacrorilliac joint. It feels like the pain is radiating down the left side of my left leg, almost like "to the bone pain, if you know what I mean. Had a cat scan taken about a month ago going to my doctor today to hear what he thinks. Any suggestions?


DR. Bill
Not to cut in on Doc, but I too have a problem with my sacroiliac joint going out of place and it can have quite a bit of pain right on that bone and effect the leg and movement! A good Chiropractor can put it back into place, unfortunately I went to lot of them in this town and non or them could do it, except one and now he is retired, so now I am currently suffering through it.
But a Doctor, or Physical Therapist or Chiropractor can diagnose it by one leg being shorter than the other for the pelvic becomes slanted, and by pressure being applied downward on the out of place sacroiliac joint for it will show up as being weaker as compared to the other side when applying the same procedure. Good luck, I hope this gives you some ideas! Whitey
 

Hardmix

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Out of curiosity I tried shooting the 11 ball shot on my 4.25 diamond. At pocket speed, I made 1 out of 10 and sold out the rest. At stop shot speed I was 6 for 10.

Given the score, I still like making the 14.
 

beatle

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If you can make it 60 pc then not shooting it is not understanding your winning chances.
 

Hardmix

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I like my chances of winning after making the 14 ball better than a 60% shot.
 
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