You vs. opponent 13 wwyd

Jeff sparks

Verified Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2015
Messages
2,928
If you like your option than you shouldn't have a problem with jim's proposal.. its exactly fair.. that being said I will shoot the 8 against you guys:D
Dunno Rob,

A fair game between us would be about 9/7 on his break 8/7 on my break, so how would it figure to be exactly fair playing even from here?? That makes no sense to me.

And as far as you cutting the eight against us shooting our options.......:-( no chance, you're by far the better player. However, I might be able to convince Sylver or Jeremy to shoot the 3 ball bank while you cut the 8.

And of course, Have a nice day.
 

onepockethacker

Verified Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
3,385
Dunno Rob,

A fair game between us would be about 9/7 on his break 8/7 on my break, so how would it figure to be exactly fair playing even from here?? That makes no sense to me.

And as far as you cutting the eight against us shooting our options.......:-( no chance, you're by far the better player. However, I might be able to convince Sylver or Jeremy to shoot the 3 ball bank while you cut the 8.

And of course, Have a nice day.
I was assuming you and Jim play about even
 

jtompilot

Verified Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
3,842
If you like your option than you shouldn't have a problem with jim's proposal.. its exactly fair.. that being said I will shoot the 8 against you guys:D
I also like the 8 but I don't shoot as straight as you and my crooked wavy arm gets in the way:(
 

gulfportdoc

Verified Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2004
Messages
9,420
These prop bet proposals are entertaining (sort of), but only 1 in 100 actually get to the table. Cyber saber rattling.:)

I took the layout to the table. IMO the weakest shot of the four is the double bank on the 13. As I mentioned back in post #21, the best part of the 13 bank choice would be stiffing the CB so that the 8 blocks the 9, or the 13/9 if the 13 gets to the long rail (third rail); or, ideally, pocketing the 9.

However the bank does not lay on a natural line. In other words, due to it's closeness to the rail, it must be cut banked. This makes it almost impossible to stiff the CB, or to hide it behind the 8. However as a shot to put the opponent in deep trouble, stiffing the cue ball with no intention of making the bank combo would still be a good shot. This is a case where the shooter really ought to know how the two-railer would react on this particular equipment.

The straight-back on the 3 is a good shot. Even if missed, it leaves nothing offensive that the opponent is going to want to shoot, and that leaves two balls by the shooter's hole. The 3 is the one ball that the opponent can realistically make from the foot end of the table. So if the shooter takes that shot, it removes that threat.

Shooting the 9 would work if a guy is confident on handling a ball that deep in the jaws. But the shot is real chancy, and tough to get followup position.

There is really no downside to the 8/9 combo, except scratching in the opposite side. A little left english removes that threat, and also helps the cut.

~Doc
 

wincardona

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
7,280
These prop bet proposals are entertaining (sort of), but only 1 in 100 actually get to the table. Cyber saber rattling.:)

I took the layout to the table. IMO the weakest shot of the four is the double bank on the 13. As I mentioned back in post #21, the best part of the 13 bank choice would be stiffing the CB so that the 8 blocks the 9, or the 13/9 if the 13 gets to the long rail (third rail); or, ideally, pocketing the 9.

However the bank does not lay on a natural line. In other words, due to it's closeness to the rail, it must be cut banked. This makes it almost impossible to stiff the CB, or to hide it behind the 8. However as a shot to put the opponent in deep trouble, stiffing the cue ball with no intention of making the bank combo would still be a good shot. This is a case where the shooter really ought to know how the two-railer would react on this particular equipment.

The straight-back on the 3 is a good shot. Even if missed, it leaves nothing offensive that the opponent is going to want to shoot, and that leaves two balls by the shooter's hole. The 3 is the one ball that the opponent can realistically make from the foot end of the table. So if the shooter takes that shot, it removes that threat.

Shooting the 9 would work if a guy is confident on handling a ball that deep in the jaws. But the shot is real chancy, and tough to get followup position.

There is really no downside to the 8/9 combo, except scratching in the opposite side. A little left english removes that threat, and also helps the cut.

~Doc

Join Date: May 2004
Location: Ghosttown
Posts: 5,979
Default You vs. opponent 13 wwyd
Your shot --- the ball score is 6-5, your opponent leading --- both going to 8 --- your pocket is at the top of the pic, where
the 9ball is in the jaws - and it's a 'small 9ball in the jaws' cuz it's deep in the jaws of a Diamond table --- 4-3/8" pockets --- wwyd/which way would you go to run out, since all four balls offer an excellent offensive shot/starting point? ----->
You obviously didn't set up the 13ball on the natural angle to cross it twice into the 9ball, that's what the Ghost is implying in his description above. Maybe you should reset it up for the 13ball to play natural to the pocket where the 9ball sits and then make a judgement on the option.

We can move the 8ball so that shot is more difficult but then that wouldn't be fair, we could also move the 3ball and change that angle as well but again, it wouldn't be fair to do that either. So, if we are going to make a judgement on which of the three options are the best or better one's then we must set them up according to how they are meant to play.

Dr. Bill
 

baby huey

Verified Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
1,310
I like Franks original shot, forgetting the pocket. It reminds me of my age and what my wife always tells me, "write it down so you won't forget it." Problem is I forget to write it down first.
 

straightback

Verified Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2014
Messages
1,851
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Ghosttown
Posts: 5,979
Default You vs. opponent 13 wwyd
Your shot --- the ball score is 6-5, your opponent leading --- both going to 8 --- your pocket is at the top of the pic, where

You obviously didn't set up the 13ball on the natural angle to cross it twice into the 9ball, that's what the Ghost is implying in his description above. Maybe you should reset it up for the 13ball to play natural to the pocket where the 9ball sits and then make a judgement on the option.

We can move the 8ball so that shot is more difficult but then that wouldn't be fair, we could also move the 3ball and change that angle as well but again, it wouldn't be fair to do that either. So, if we are going to make a judgement on which of the three options are the best or better one's then we must set them up according to how they are meant to play.

Dr. Bill
My take is Ghost said it was merely offensive; not that it was straight-on.
 

wincardona

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
7,280
My take is Ghost said it was merely offensive; not that it was straight-on.
Dan, he clearly used the word "excellent" starting point, which I interpreted as being straight on. Lets say that it is straight on for argument sake, after all aren't we trying to establish which option would be the best providing that every option is doable? Of course if I can't control both the cue ball and the 13ball then the 13ball option is not as good as the other two options but if both balls can be controlled then which option is the best or better one's?

That's my point.

Dr. Bill
 

onepockethacker

Verified Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
3,385
Common sense should tell everyone that point of this WWYD is that ALL options are laying perfect... so in other words the intent is for the 2 railer to be natural to stop the cue and go to the hole.. that being said ME personally would shoot the 8..

P.S. Wait a second... Oh No... could it be.... I hope people don't think that this WWYD is from an ACTUAL game:lol:lol
 
Last edited:

wincardona

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
7,280
Common sense should tell everyone that point of this WWYD is that ALL options are laying perfect... so in other words the intent is for the 2 railer to be natural to stop the cue and go to the hole.. that being said ME personally would shoot the 8..
Thank you, good luck with your shot, hit it good.:D

Dr. Bill
 

onepockethacker

Verified Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
3,385
Thank you, good luck with your shot, hit it good.:D

Dr. Bill
Like I said I don't think there is a wrong option in this spot.. Since all 3 are laying perfect the best shot for everyone is what they are comfortable with... Even if one was a hair better that little bit of better percentage would be more than offset IN THIS INSTANCE with them shooting an option they are not comfortable with.. JMHO :eek:

have a nice day:)
 

jtompilot

Verified Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
3,842
These prop bet proposals are entertaining (sort of), but only 1 in 100 actually get to the table. Cyber saber rattling.:)

I took the layout to the table. IMO the weakest shot of the four is the double bank on the 13. As I mentioned back in post #21, the best part of the 13 bank choice would be stiffing the CB so that the 8 blocks the 9, or the 13/9 if the 13 gets to the long rail (third rail); or, ideally, pocketing the 9.

However the bank does not lay on a natural line. In other words, due to it's closeness to the rail, it must be cut banked. This makes it almost impossible to stiff the CB, or to hide it behind the 8. However as a shot to put the opponent in deep trouble, stiffing the cue ball with no intention of making the bank combo would still be a good shot. This is a case where the shooter really ought to know how the two-railer would react on this particular equipment.

The straight-back on the 3 is a good shot. Even if missed, it leaves nothing offensive that the opponent is going to want to shoot, and that leaves two balls by the shooter's hole. The 3 is the one ball that the opponent can realistically make from the foot end of the table. So if the shooter takes that shot, it removes that threat.

Shooting the 9 would work if a guy is confident on handling a ball that deep in the jaws. But the shot is real chancy, and tough to get followup position.

There is really no downside to the 8/9 combo, except scratching in the opposite side. A little left english removes that threat, and also helps the cut.

~Doc
I took the two railer to a GC4, it lays a 1/2 diamond short. Nothing a little left wont cure. I cant keep whitey on the rail but i dont want the 8 straight in anyways. Cutting the 8 is also good. The worst choice is banking the 3:sorry
 

Frank Almanza

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
2,394
I took the two railer to a GC4, it lays a 1/2 diamond short. Nothing a little left wont cure. I cant keep whitey on the rail but i dont want the 8 straight in anyways. Cutting the 8 is also good. The worst choice is banking the 3:sorry
Did anyone mentioned that the two railer even if hit perfect might have a downside to it? I shot it a number of times and at least half the time when I made the nine ball the 13 ball layed in a position that blocked the pocket for the eight and left me with and off angle combination even though it still layed near the pocket. And when I did make the combo, most of the time I would lose control of the eight ball unless the 13 ball sat in the jaws of the pocket.
 

gulfportdoc

Verified Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2004
Messages
9,420
You obviously didn't set up the 13ball on the natural angle to cross it twice into the 9ball, that's what the Ghost is implying in his description above. Maybe you should reset it up for the 13ball to play natural to the pocket where the 9ball sits and then make a judgement on the option.

We can move the 8ball so that shot is more difficult but then that wouldn't be fair, we could also move the 3ball and change that angle as well but again, it wouldn't be fair to do that either. So, if we are going to make a judgement on which of the three options are the best or better one's then we must set them up according to how they are meant to play.

Dr. Bill
For reasons of your own you must have been upset by my post. Otherwise your accusations and condescending tone don't make any sense.

What would give you to believe that I had not set up the Ghost's layout precisely? Why do you imply that I changed the position of the balls? Where did Ghost say that the 13 ball laid on a natural two-rail angle to the pocket?

If you haven't already, take the shot to your table. Keep in mind that the 13 is very close to the rail. If you shoot the 13 dead center, and it goes twice across into the corner pocket, then it is you who is altering the layout.

~Doc
 

Jeff sparks

Verified Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2015
Messages
2,928
I took the two railer to a GC4, it lays a 1/2 diamond short. Nothing a little left wont cure. I cant keep whitey on the rail but i dont want the 8 straight in anyways. Cutting the 8 is also good. The worst choice is banking the 3:sorry
I took it to the table and the 3 splits the wicket every time, hmmmmm, I cut the 8 and I hit the point twice and over cut it once, then I two railed the stripe and left it short of the pocket once and it banked short twice. It's the worse shot of the three. Sorry

Have a nice day.

P.S. I didn't do any of that Shiit, But I still want to prop bet it.
 

One Pocket Ghost

Verified Member
Joined
May 25, 2004
Messages
8,710
Ok great. We have our first prop bet :)

I'll shoot the cut. You double bank the 13 and we'll see who sinks the 9 most often out of 10 shots. Say $200?

Nope, you have the other pocket and I'll bank the 3, ball score is 6/5 you, play a race to 3 for a couple of hundred. Let me know when you want to play it.

You want to pick and choose, that's not available, play all three or take the other pocket and it's my shot, I'll bank the 3 to start each game. Remember, you're the better player between us and I stated two equal players, but I'll risk it anyway.

Ahem...just wanted to remind youse guys of the post that I made a few weeks back ----->


"Seeing as how the Ghost's wwyd threads are authored and copyrighted by him..the Ghost fairly expects to receive 15% of any monies realized from any and all gambling matches that transpire due to, and based on, the content of the Ghost's wwyd threads"...:heh...:cool:

Thank you in advance for your righteousness, Ghost

PS, And btw, I have conferred with my legal counsel - straightback, re. this matter...:eek:


Ahem...just wanted to remind youse guys of the post that I made a few weeks back ----->


"Seeing as how the Ghost's wwyd threads are authored and copyrighted by him..the Ghost fairly expects to receive 15% of any monies realized from any and all gambling matches that transpire due to, and based on, the content of the Ghost's wwyd threads"...:heh...:cool:

Thank you in advance for your cooperation in this matter, Ghost
 
Last edited:

straightback

Verified Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2014
Messages
1,851
Ahem...just wanted to remind youse guys of the post that I made a few weeks back ----->


"Seeing as how the Ghost's wwyd threads are authored and copyrighted by him..the Ghost fairly expects to receive 15% of any monies realized from any and all gambling matches that transpire due to, and based on, the content of the Ghost's wwyd threads"...:heh...:cool:

Thank you in advance for your righteousness, Ghost

PS, And btw, I have conferred with my legal counsel - straightback, re. this matter...:eek:
Gotta read the fine print, folks. Pay the man.
 

wincardona

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
7,280
For reasons of your own you must have been upset by my post. Otherwise your accusations and condescending tone don't make any sense.

What would give you to believe that I had not set up the Ghost's layout precisely? Why do you imply that I changed the position of the balls? Where did Ghost say that the 13 ball laid on a natural two-rail angle to the pocket?

If you haven't already, take the shot to your table. Keep in mind that the 13 is very close to the rail. If you shoot the 13 dead center, and it goes twice across into the corner pocket, then it is you who is altering the layout.

~Doc
Art, What the Ghost said was that all the options offered an excellent offensive starting point.

Your shot --- the ball score is 6-5, your opponent leading --- both going to 8 --- your pocket is at the top of the pic, where the 9ball is in the jaws - and it's a 'small 9ball in the jaws' cuz it's deep in the jaws of a Diamond table --- 4-3/8" pockets --- wwyd/which way would you go to run out, since all four balls offer an excellent offensive shot/starting point? ----->

Art's post
However the bank does not lay on a natural line. In other words, due to it's closeness to the rail, it must be cut banked. This makes it almost impossible to stiff the CB, or to hide it behind the 8. However as a shot to put the opponent in deep trouble, stiffing the cue ball with no intention of making the bank combo would still be a good shot. This is a case where the shooter really ought to know how the two-railer would react on this particular equipment.
Attached Images

This debate is or should be about ..providing all the options are laying on the angle to execute the shot to get the best result then which option would be the best option.

Ghost clearly stated that all the options offered an excellent offensive shot starting point. I interpreted that as the angle for the 13ball option was very doable. You stated that it was laying on an angle that made it almost impossible to hold the cue ball behind the 8ball and get the movement from the 13ball that would pocket the 9ball. (not in so many words but that was your message)

If we are going to debate this position in terms of which shot would be the best choice, then why would I or any one choose a shot that wasn't laying well enough to achieve the results that would support that option as the best option.:frus What's so hard to understand that the Ghost meant that the 13ball option was laying on the angle to achieve the maximum result if it was hit well. All the other options are laying on the angles to achieve the maximum result, why not the 13ball option? If not then the 13ball option can't be the right shot, that's why we must agree that the angle it's on is conducive to get the results we seek. What makes the 13ball option so appealing is the residual effects the shot carries, that's actually the strength of the option, which was clearly noted by all that liked that option. Of course the 13ball option is the lowest percentage to pocket of all the options, however, that's not the reason you would or wouldn't shoot it, the reason to choose the option is because it just may offer you the best chance of winning, not pocketing the 9ball.

Dr. Bill
 
Last edited:

gulfportdoc

Verified Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2004
Messages
9,420
Art, What the Ghost said was that all the options offered an excellent offensive starting point.

This debate is or should be about ..providing all the options are laying on the angle to execute the shot to get the best result then which option would be the best option.

Ghost clearly stated that all the options offered an excellent offensive shot starting point. I interpreted that as the angle for the 13ball option was very doable. You stated that it was laying on an angle that made it almost impossible to hold the cue ball behind the 8ball and get the movement from the 13ball that would pocket the 9ball. (not in so many words but that was your message)

If we are going to debate this position in terms of which shot would be the best choice, then why would I or any one choose a shot that wasn't laying well enough to achieve the results that would support that option as the best option. What's so hard to understand that the Ghost meant that the 13ball option was laying on the angle to achieve the maximum result if it was hit well. All the other options are laying on the angles to achieve the maximum result, why not the 13ball option? If not then the 13ball option can't be the right shot, that's why we must agree that the angle it's on is conducive to get the results we seek. What makes the 13ball option so appealing is the residual effects the shot carries, that's actually the strength of the option, which was clearly noted by all that liked that option. Of course the 13ball option is the lowest percentage to pocket of all the options, however, that's not the reason you would or wouldn't shoot it, the reason to choose the option is because it just may offer you the best chance of winning, not pocketing the 9ball. Dr. Bill
I wish you would take the layout to the table, and stop trying to obfuscate the issue with 3 paragraphs about what Ghost did, or did not imply. Does Ghost have you on retainer?:D

I stated that the 13 ball two-railer will not go if it is hit dead on, that it must be cut. You then said that I must have set it up wrong; and that if I set it up properly, it would go. But if I set it up to where it would go, having been struck at it's center, then the original layout would be altered. Would you like to discuss an alternate variation of this layout?;)

~Doc
 
Top