Wwyd

spiderwebcomm

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This is a shot that came up recently came up during the Hendy/Ghost match - one that I've been thinking about ever since.

The ball count is 6-6, with each player needing 2 balls. Match-wise, the shooter is on the hill, with the opponent needing 2 games.

This is NOT an autopsy of John's decision on this shot (he chose his shot based on the equipment, opponent, score, etc.) Please assume YOU are shooting the shot on YOUR table (on equipment you know), playing a capable opponent. Please also explain the reasoning for your selection.

I'm working on improving my 1pkt game and curious if you figure match-score in addition to ball-score.

Thank you for your insight-
 

pvclou

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Wwyd

Slice the red to my side. The cue ball speed to get back near the black. CB hides under the black or is jacked up by it if I get a good roll. No matter what I keep the initiative with that shot, I think.
 

wincardona

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This is a shot that came up recently came up during the Hendy/Ghost match - one that I've been thinking about ever since.

The ball count is 6-6, with each player needing 2 balls. Match-wise, the shooter is on the hill, with the opponent needing 2 games.

This is NOT an autopsy of John's decision on this shot (he chose his shot based on the equipment, opponent, score, etc.) Please assume YOU are shooting the shot on YOUR table (on equipment you know), playing a capable opponent. Please also explain the reasoning for your selection.

I'm working on improving my 1pkt game and curious if you figure match-score in addition to ball-score.

Thank you for your insight-
I would like to help you understand how to evaluate mostly all situations of this kind, and will also try to break it down for you so you can make an informed decision when you're confronted with one.;) If I should happen to get some opposition with my opinion, treat it lightly (very lightly):D

The score of the match should never persuade you to shoot a shot that isn't the best shot to shoot to win the game with, period. Always shoot the shot that gives you the best chance to win the game...regardless of the score of the match.

However, you must understand that there is a lot to consider other than just table conditions and ball score when you choose to shoot your shot. You should always factor in the speed of your opponent at the time of the contest, meaning that your opponents speed may change do to what has transpired through the match. If you should sense that your opponent is getting weak then you should choose options that would lessen the possibility of allowing him to step to the table to shoot an easy shot. Take this situation as an example. Providing both players are about the same speed in this situation I would only shoot the yellow ball if I were at least an 75% favorite to pocket the ball, unless my opponent was getting weak then I would have to be a bigger favorite than 75% to shoot the yellow ball because I would not want to give him a shot to build back his confidence that he has lost.

Always remember that the speed of your opponent should always be a factor when choosing your option. Also always try to remember that the speed of your opponent could change during the contest, and so should your options because of that.;)

The shot that I would shoot here would be to bank the red ball up table to my side and try to use the yellow ball as a cover ball forcing my opponent to then shoot off the yellow ball as his return option. If i'm able to block the red ball with the yellow ball my opponent will then have to defend against not leaving a shot on both the red ball and yellow ball, which could be difficult.

This position is almost a neutral position as far as ball position is concerned, try not to shoot or force a shot that will allow your opponent to gain an advantage with his return shot. This is the time to roll up your sleeves and go to work, and earn your win.

Dr. Bill
 
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fred bentivegna

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I would like to help you understand how to evaluate mostly all situations of this kind, and will also try to break it down for you so you can make an informed decision when you're confronted with one.;) If I should happen to get some opposition with my opinion, treat it lightly (very lightly):D

The score of the match should never persuade you to shoot a shot that isn't the best shot to shoot to win the game with, period. Always shoot the shot that gives you the best chance to win the game...regardless of the score of the match.

However, you must understand that there is a lot to consider other than just table conditions and ball score when you choose to shoot your shot. You should always factor in the speed of your opponent at the time of the contest, meaning that your opponents speed may change do to what has transpired through the match. If you should sense that your opponent is getting weak then you should choose options that would lessen the possibility of allowing him to step to the table to shoot an easy shot. Take this situation as an example. Providing both players are about the same speed in this situation I would only shoot the yellow ball if I were at least an 75% favorite to pocket the ball, unless my opponent was getting weak then I would have to be a bigger favorite than 75% to shoot the yellow ball because I would not want to give him a shot to build back his confidence that he has lost.

Always remember that the speed of your opponent should always be a factor when choosing your option. Also always try to remember that the speed of your opponent could change during the contest, and so should your options because of that.;)

The shot that I would shoot here would be to bank the red ball up table to my side and try to use the yellow ball as a cover ball forcing my opponent to then shoot off the yellow ball as his return option. If i'm able to block the red ball with the yellow ball my opponent will then have to defend against not leaving a shot on both the red ball and yellow ball, which could be difficult.

This position is almost a neutral position as far as ball position is concerned, try not to shoot or force a shot that will allow your opponent to gain an advantage with his return shot. This is the time to roll up your sleeves and go to work, and earn your win.

Dr. Bill

God forbid, that is the shot I would recommend also. That fits into my "accumulation" one pocket theory.

Beard
 

petie

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What'swrong with double banking the red and drawing to the side pocket?
 

Cowboy Dennis

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This is a shot that came up recently came up during the Hendy/Ghost match - one that I've been thinking about ever since.

The ball count is 6-6, with each player needing 2 balls. Match-wise, the shooter is on the hill, with the opponent needing 2 games.

This is NOT an autopsy of John's decision on this shot (he chose his shot based on the equipment, opponent, score, etc.) Please assume YOU are shooting the shot on YOUR table (on equipment you know), playing a capable opponent. Please also explain the reasoning for your selection.

I'm working on improving my 1pkt game and curious if you figure match-score in addition to ball-score.

Thank you for your insight-
John was not on the hill (in the match) before the Ghost. This is not John's shot or you have the match score wrong.

Dennis
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Although you'd always need to be at the table to know for sure WWYD, I believe I would bank the 13 back uptable and leave the cueball as near to his corner as I reasonably could.


cbd's shot.jpg
 

jtompilot

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What'swrong with double banking the red and drawing to the side pocket?
Thats the best way to lose.

You have a more favorable position now. Why give it up. that double has a better chance of giving up a nice return bank than going in.
 

Frank Almanza

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Thats the best way to lose.

You have a more favorable position now. Why give it up. that double has a better chance of giving up a nice return bank than going in.
I believe the two railer is a fair option if you stop the cue ball right there and hit the object ball hard enough to get out of the area if it doesn't go in.
 

One pocket Smitty

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I agree with banking the red ball 2 rails hard enough so it wouldn't stay by the pocket for a return bank if it didn't go. I would stop the CB right there and if it did go have a 3 railer on the yellow ball.--Smitty
 

fred bentivegna

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Thats the best way to lose.

You have a more favorable position now. Why give it up. that double has a better chance of giving up a nice return bank than going in.
Good rationale. Are you the same guy that wanted to shoot that moon shot on the bank pool forum?;)

Beard
 

fred bentivegna

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I agree with banking the red ball 2 rails hard enough so it wouldn't stay by the pocket for a return bank if it didn't go. I would stop the CB right there and if it did go have a 3 railer on the yellow ball.--Smitty
And if you dont make it, especially if you have to hit it hard, what happens after that? The object ball will probably land a few diamonds up from your pocket and near the long rail, giving your opponent an easy opportunity to cross the ball or shoot it over to his side, causing you to lose the move, and a ball you need to win being taken out of play.

I concur with the Cardone solution, trying to put the banked ball near the side pocket in an attempt to create a snooker that would allow you to stay the move up.

Beard
 

jrhendy

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It was 9-8 ghost and also it was ghost turn to shoot.
I think Ghost tried to cut the ball near the rail in and over cut it short of reaching the hole.

For those that liked the two rail bank that think it was my shot, that particular table banks extremely short coming off the second rail. If you hit it perfect you might get it around four inches wide from the hole.
 

piggybank04

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What'swrong with double banking the red and drawing to the side pocket?
first shot i thought of, if you bank well like i do and youre 80% sure you can make it or get it real close, i say shoot it--otherwise i'll cut the red ball leaving a tough defensive shot for my opponent--if i happen to miss--now thats what i call hyper-aggressive one pocket........you could also cut the yellow ball but i dont like that with the red sitting where it is........
 

spiderwebcomm

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Yes, sorry, it was Ghost's shot, not John's.

I've shot this shot a ton of times and I threaten to make the ball often on the 2 railer and even make a few. I've experimented with leaving the CB near the rail and also drawing the CB back towards the kitchen (to win). It's not hard to create problem in front of your pocket and you might just make it and end the match.

I've asked a few tour players about scenarios like this and most agree w/ something along the lines of what Cardone said. Man, it's tough mentally for me to not go for the close-out if you can put the CB in a poor spot... which is why I wanted to post the thread.

This is all very educational for me and I appreciate everyone's input. Lots of variables to consider, for sure.
 
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Cowboy Dennis

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Is this a screenshot from the actual situation? I think the answer is "yes" but I am not positive.... Thanks!
Of course it is:). Here's the shot before this layout came up. Ghosty made a nice shot on the 12 and got a little high on the 13.


ghost's first shot.jpg

ghost's leave.jpg
 

jtompilot

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I believe the two railer is a fair option if you stop the cue ball right there and hit the object ball hard enough to get out of the area if it doesn't go in.
Yea, and what happens when the OB hits a titie or two and lays good or goes to the other hole. Just bad luck
 
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