WWYD - Player A v Player B

Frank Almanza

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It could be that he had in mind to split hit the 13 and15 balls but was off a bit on his aim in making sure to control the cue ball.

To me it looks like positioning the cue ball to where he put it was routine if he went straight to the 15 ball or straight to the 13 ball, that's why I think he tried to hit both ball at the same time. Seems like hitting both balls would have spread more balls out to his side.
 

Tom Wirth

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More isn't always better. Opening up the stack even if it is to move multiple balls your way isn't always the best approach to setting traps and I have after many many years come to the opinion that it is overrated. Many times this tactic proves to be their own undoing and the trap gets reversed. The truly strong One Pocket players have learned how to run lots of balls with the stack still relatively intact.

That being said, Splitting the two balls with the six is not a bad shot, I just like rolling the ten better for the reasons I pointed out earlier. This shot is full-proof and sets a nice trap.

Jeff, I want you to go to a table and try your ticky shot from over that stack. Let us know how easy it is to avoid selling out something sweet.



Tom
 

Scrzbill

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The reason I would not shoot the six and have my cue ball run to the bottom rail is simple. A scratch looms large. Most of the big tournaments are played with new cloth making a precision shot more difficult. What you are counting on here is the cloth has been played on enough for it to grab the cue ball and for it to fall to the bottom rail. What happens if it slides because the cloth is new, without play and dirt? How many players commenting on shooting the shot, Appletons shot, play his caliber of play? Remember, these situations are what YOU would do, not you playing championship caliber pool.
I'm shooting the simplist shot for me. A shot that will allow me to get into the flow of the game, a shot that allows me to control the game. Losing the game at the opening, with only a few turns taken, is very disheartening.
 

baby huey

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I don't like opening balls up unless I'm really sure I'm going to execute the shot. Another option I saw is to shoot the ten ball forward towards your hole and freeze the CB in the stack. So what did I accomplish? I think I just put the heat on my opponent to either kick into a safety or take a scratch which I like since I'm up 1/0 in the ball count. The outcome which Darren achieved did not take charge of the game. In fact he left situation where several shots could put him in trouble. By the way does anyone know what happened after Darren's shot?
 

tucson9ball

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The reason I would not shoot the six and have my cue ball run to the bottom rail is simple. A scratch looms large. Most of the big tournaments are played with new cloth making a precision shot more difficult. What you are counting on here is the cloth has been played on enough for it to grab the cue ball and for it to fall to the bottom rail. What happens if it slides because the cloth is new, without play and dirt? How many players commenting on shooting the shot, Appletons shot, play his caliber of play? Remember, these situations are what YOU would do, not you playing championship caliber pool.
I'm shooting the simplist shot for me. A shot that will allow me to get into the flow of the game, a shot that allows me to control the game. Losing the game at the opening, with only a few turns taken, is very disheartening.
With new cloth, they can draw the Q ball effortlessly. He could have easily hit the 15 and got the same Q ball result.
 

1pwannabe

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What about shooting the 6 into the top of the 1 and playing the carom towards your hole. It looks like whitey is going to hit the 10 and die in the top of the stack whilst the 10 rolls to your side, similar to what Tom likes.
 

Scrzbill

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With new cloth, they can draw the Q ball effortlessly. He could have easily hit the 15 and got the same Q ball result.
Sliding with the cue ball happens more often with a new cloth than with a cloth that has had some play. While there are advantages to a new cloth, sliding is a distinct disadvantage especially with the narrow margin on this shot.
 

Frank Almanza

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I don't understand the logic of not wanting to open up as many balls to your pocket that you possibly can. If you're looking to trap him the chance is right here and now. Splitting the 13 and 15 balls while positioning the cue ball where he did is a nice trap especially if the 3 ball travels like it appears that it will. It should lay very near the pocket.

With the three ball there and the balls spread out and the cue ball where he put it that certainly looks like a trap to me. Very hard to defend against.
IMO getting the cue ball there is no problem for a fair player no matter what the cloth conditions are.
 

Tom Wirth

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I don't understand the logic of not wanting to open up as many balls to your pocket that you possibly can. If you're looking to trap him the chance is right here and now. Splitting the 13 and 15 balls while positioning the cue ball where he did is a nice trap especially if the 3 ball travels like it appears that it will. It should lay very near the pocket.

With the three ball there and the balls spread out and the cue ball where he put it that certainly looks like a trap to me. Very hard to defend against.
IMO getting the cue ball there is no problem for a fair player no matter what the cloth conditions are.
Hi Frank, All that you say is correct and I don't dispute that splitting those two balls with the six can reap great things, but I've fallen victim too many time to my zeal to open many balls on my side. I still do it, and maybe if I were at the table I might shoot that shot over the one I suggested. But once in awhile they tie up and allow for my opponent to play up table and double me up. They sometimes allow my opponent to kick deep behind the balls I get close to my hole. Now with the balls open and toward the foot rail, I could find myself quite literally behind the eight ball.
That wouldn't happen often but why let it happen at all when there are other traps that can work as well but the risk is reduced to nil.

Tom
 
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gulfportdoc

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Larry, not all balls on your opponent's side are assets reserved only for them. That six ball is a potential bank given the proper location of the cue ball. Look at the position of the balls following Darren's shot. All but the fourteen favors player B. Sure, Darren's shot will cause some difficulty but nothing that can't be handled by a reasonably good player.

Push the ten over, hide both the ten and six, and force your opponent to kick under the ten. Now you will be in a far better position to deal with the three balls near player B's pocket and still have your trap working.

Tom

PS. I might add that the ten would be far closer to the side rail and about a diamond from his pocket. The cue ball would be laying over the entire stack making it very difficult to bridge for player B. At this point I would not worry much about the wired four ball. My focus would be in setting my own trap
.
One advantage of the shot you're suggesting is that it makes it much more difficult to use the stripe which looms uptable for a return safety; whereas leaving the CB beside the pink ball allows a nice escape using that stripe.

~Doc
 

lll

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One advantage of the shot you're suggesting is that it makes it much more difficult to use the stripe which looms uptable for a return safety; whereas leaving the CB beside the pink ball allows a nice escape using that stripe.

~Doc
doc
could you explain with the cue ball by the four how the stripe in the kitchen helps you please?
 

gulfportdoc

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doc
could you explain with the cue ball by the four how the stripe in the kitchen helps you please?
Yes, the shooter would just cut the left side of the stripe, bank the CB off the head rail and back down below the side pocket. If the shooter would be shooting from the foot spot, that shot isn't there.

~Doc
 

lll

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Yes, the shooter would just cut the left side of the stripe, bank the CB off the head rail and back down below the side pocket. If the shooter would be shooting from the foot spot, that shot isn't there.

~Doc
how are you cutting the left side of the stripe from here???:confused::confused:

aa5.jpg
 

Jeff sparks

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More isn't always better. Opening up the stack even if it is to move multiple balls your way isn't always the best approach to setting traps and I have after many many years come to the opinion that it is overrated. Many times this tactic proves to be their own undoing and the trap gets reversed. The truly strong One Pocket players have learned how to run lots of balls with the stack still relatively intact.

That being said, Splitting the two balls with the six is not a bad shot, I just like rolling the ten better for the reasons I pointed out earlier. This shot is full-proof and sets a nice trap.

Jeff, I want you to go to a table and try your ticky shot from over that stack. Let us know how easy it is to avoid selling out something sweet.






Tom
Ok Tom, I still haven't been to the pool room since my shellacking the other day, but I finally have some time to readdress this WWYD. So, let me try to escape the trap you laid with the 10 ball...
Say you put me on the top of the stack and now you have a 1 ball trap ( the 10 ball ) I didn't take the up table stripe ( the 11 I believe it is ) into account because frankly I didn't see it before, so now the kick looks difficult and I have to look elsewhere...

Looking at the lay of the 15/13/1, ( the 13 either goes or gets real close off the 1 ball ) I would strongly consider elevating for a punch draw masse off the 15 ball to the side rail above the 6 ball to an up table position near the head rail, leaving you either doubled up behind the 11/6 ball or as straight in as possible on the 10 ball.

If the 13 didn't go in the pocket and it just stirred em up a bit, then you would have the option of shooting at the 10, if it's available, for a 1 ball gain or possibly a lose the game attempt, or dealing with several balls opened to my side, which depending on how they settled, could be difficult...

There is no way we can recreate this exact situation, otherwise I would play it out with you using both our choices.. You might have the best of it, because you are a great player, but if it was possible to do it, I'd have to give it a whirl...:):):)
 
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androd

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Ok Tom, I still haven't been to the pool room since my shellacking the other day, but I finally have some time to readdress this WWYD. So, let me try to escape the trap you laid with the 10 ball...
Say you put me on the top of the stack and now you have a 1 ball trap ( the 10 ball ) I didn't take the up table stripe ( the 11 I believe it is ) into account because frankly I didn't see it before, so now the kick looks difficult and I have to look elsewhere...

Looking at the lay of the 15/13/1, ( the 13 either goes or gets real close off the 1 ball ) I would strongly consider elevating for a punch draw masse off the 15 ball to the side rail above the 6 ball to an up table position near the head rail, leaving you either doubled up behind the 11 ball or as straight in as possible on the 10 ball.

If the 13 didn't go in the pocket and it just stirred em up a bit, then you would have the option of shooting at the 10, if it's available, for a 1 ball gain or possibly a lose the game attempt, or dealing with several balls opened to my side, which depending on how they settled, could be difficult...

There is no way we can recreate this exact situation, otherwise I would play it out with you using both our choices.. You might have the best of it, because you are a great player, but if it was possible to do it, I'd have to give it a whirl...:):):)
Good eye, that's what I thought. :)
 

Tom Wirth

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Ok Tom, I still haven't been to the pool room since my shellacking the other day, but I finally have some time to readdress this WWYD. So, let me try to escape the trap you laid with the 10 ball...
Say you put me on the top of the stack and now you have a 1 ball trap ( the 10 ball ) I didn't take the up table stripe ( the 11 I believe it is ) into account because frankly I didn't see it before, so now the kick looks difficult and I have to look elsewhere...

Looking at the lay of the 15/13/1, ( the 13 either goes or gets real close off the 1 ball ) I would strongly consider elevating for a punch draw masse off the 15 ball to the side rail above the 6 ball to an up table position near the head rail, leaving you either doubled up behind the 11/6 ball or as straight in as possible on the 10 ball.

If the 13 didn't go in the pocket and it just stirred em up a bit, then you would have the option of shooting at the 10, if it's available, for a 1 ball gain or possibly a lose the game attempt, or dealing with several balls opened to my side, which depending on how they settled, could be difficult...

There is no way we can recreate this exact situation, otherwise I would play it out with you using both our choices.. You might have the best of it, because you are a great player, but if it was possible to do it, I'd have to give it a whirl...:):):)
All I can say is; "Yikes! Full steam ahead!"
 
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