WWYD - PART II - CHOHAN v OWEN

wincardona

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Genius here :p

I started to mention earlier that I think that shot is great if you can execute it with confidence, but it looks way too tough for me to hit it that thin with good touch off the rail.
Exactly, we must conclude that that option was not a viable option because Gabe didn't choose it. We must give Gabe at least that much respect to know if there was an easy safety available,:frus especially with the score like it was. When ever you need one ball to your opponents three and are confronted with a problematic situation it's only natural..especially from a seasoned player.. to be looking for a safety, as opposed to a low% shot like the one Gabe shot.

Dr. Bill
 

one pocket guy

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Dr Bill please explain.

Dr Bill please explain.

We are trying to learn here. I for one have are a student of yours through a/s , but I would like to know how Ghost and I are wrong in taking a scratch on the bottom rail around 3/4 of the first diamond by his pocket. How would he lose the game from there. His only shot a passive one back for me to deal with in a better spot. I don't like fouling in the one hole , but I have to Know My Limitations . If I'm wrong please let me know why it's the wrong shot.
 
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onepockethacker

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Genius here :p

I started to mention earlier that I think that shot is great if you can execute it with confidence, but it looks way too tough for me to hit it that thin with good touch off the rail.
Well then that's why its called WWYD and in that respect I shouldn't be negative about what people shoot. So in conclusion..
What Would I do? Thin the 15 and win the game..
What Would Billy do? Soft Kick the 5 and give Tony a CHANCE(which is what he is dying for needing 3 balls to Gabes 1) to bank the 15 and come around naturally for shape. Is it a tough bank? hell yeah but needing them all it looks alot better than it normally would.
What Would Ghost do? Come out of the 1 hole LMFAO Im definitely soft kicking the 5 ball or shooting the 15 before I take an intentional here
 

one pocket guy

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How about you Rob? I respect your take also. How is it gonna go bad if he can't bank the 15 and one goes on the spot?
 

wincardona

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We are trying to learn here. I for one have are a student of yours through a/s , but I would like to know how Ghost and I are wrong in taking a scratch on the bottom rail around 3/4 of the first diamond by his pocket. How would he lose the game from there. His only shot a passive one back for to deal with in abetter spot. I don't like fouling the one hole , but I have to Know My Limatations. If I'm wrong please let me know why it's the wrong shot.
You're not wrong in taking the intentional, if your only concern is not losing on your opponents next inning. Taking the intentional is clearly the right shot to avoid losing the game on your opponents next inning, but is it a fair trade off ? That depends on where you leave your opponent if the intentional is not taken.

It's not like comparing 'apples to apples' if you know what I mean.

If we could put a mathematical value on all the options discussed then we would have an easier time comparing them. Plus we would have an easier decision to make when choosing them as well.:)

In this situation leading by the score of 7-5 there is an approximate value that can be calculated which would be based on the caliber of players competing. However, the situation in itself for the shooter is a disability that needs to be deducted from that value, which actually lessens the value.. based on the option chosen. As you can see it's very complex and there's not an easy solution available. There are many variables that needs to be considered when comparing certain options against others. For instance..caliber of players..score of game..options available...ball position..ect.ect.

My educated guess would be that the intentional is better than the 15ball shot Gabe chose, but not as good as the 5ball kick.:)

Experience is the only real answer to the questions we all have about situations similar to the one we are debating. The more experience you have in an area, the better prepared you are to predict a possible outcome. But even with all the experience there is on this site it looks as if we're at an impasse :lol:eek:

Keep playing and reading all these some times confusing and contradicting post and you will eventually have a better understanding of the game of one pocket..hopefully.:D

Dr. Bill
 

onepockethacker

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Exactly, we must conclude that that option was not a viable option because Gabe didn't choose it. We must give Gabe at least that much respect to know if there was an easy safety available,:frus especially with the score like it was. When ever you need one ball to your opponents three and are confronted with a problematic situation it's only natural..especially from a seasoned player.. to be looking for a safety, as opposed to a low% shot like the one Gabe shot.

Dr. Bill
How can you say it wasn't available? Look where the cue ball hit the rail when he missed the 15. Now just softly play to over cut the 15 and its an easy safe.. Maybe seeing how you never mentioned the option in the beginning of this thread, maybe he over looked it just like you did (its ok I know you got too much pride to admit it)..
Now then back to your explanation of what he chose.. You are saying how low percentage the bank on the 15 ball would be and would be almost impossible for someone to run out if you kick the 5 ball.. Obviously Gabe is intelligent and we have to give him respect to know that YET he chose to shoot a low percentage shot in a way that if he misses it he will probably lose the game... So now explain to me why Gabe would shoot a shot he is at best 50/50 at making when if he misses he loses instead of kicking the 5 ball where you think he is at least 80% to win the game. It doesn't add up Billy.
Billy do you know what OCCAM'S Razor is.. For sure he could have played my safe but didn't, for sure he could have played your kick and still won the game most of the time YET he chose the one option where if he misses he loses.. So in this case OCCAM's Razor... Gabe didn't want to win
 

one pocket guy

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Lay men's terms please.

Lay men's terms please.

No wonder they call you Dr. Bill. I couldn't understand any of that.:frus
 

onepockethacker

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How about you Rob? I respect your take also. How is it gonna go bad if he can't bank the 15 and one goes on the spot?
Let me try to answer you and btw Billy is pretty much right what he told you. Its all about winning the game and what percentage you will win the game after each option you choose. If you soft kick the 5 ball Tony will win the game about 25% of the time after you kick so you win about 75% of the time kicking the 5 ball. Taking an intentional you go from 7 to 5 to 6 to 5 in ball count. Do you think you will win the game 75% of the time after taking an intentional making the score 6 to 5 and the balls as they are located? Plus you have to take in to effect how much oxygen you just gave Tony by taking the intentional.
P.S. What you should do is thin the 15 ball you win the game 90% of the time from there
 

wincardona

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Well then that's why its called WWYD and in that respect I shouldn't be negative about what people shoot. So in conclusion..
What Would I do? Thin the 15 and win the game..
What Would Billy do? Soft Kick the 5 and give Tony a CHANCE(which is what he is dying for needing 3 balls to Gabes 1) to bank the 15 and come around naturally for shape. Is it a tough bank? hell yeah but needing them all it looks alot better than it normally would.
What Would Ghost do? Come out of the 1 hole LMFAO Im definitely soft kicking the 5 ball or shooting the 15 before I take an intentional here
I can see that i'm not getting any where with you with the approach I opted to take, however, I do have one final question for you, and I would really appreciate if you would answer it for me with a simple answer..thanks.

If there wasn't any of the simple safety's available that you were referring to, then what would you do?

SIMPLE ANSWER WOULD BE APPRECIATED.

Dr. Bill
 

onepockethacker

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I can see that i'm not getting any where with you with the approach I opted to take, however, I do have one final question for you, and I would really appreciate if you would answer it for me with a simple answer..thanks.

If there wasn't any of the simple safety's available that you were referring to, then what would you do?

SIMPLE ANSWER WOULD BE APPRECIATED.

Dr. Bill
Kick the 5 ball softly however... I think Gabe didn't see the safe which is easy to over look or he didn't want to see it. The safe was there
 

onepockethacker

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Simple answer Billy would be appreciated. Have you ever over looked a simple safety because you were in an apparent brutal spot.. Why do you think there is that old saying when you are in a tough spot look for something simple to do? If people always saw the simple solutions you wouldn't need to have that saying.
How many times in your pool career has a person sold out to you and left you straight in your hole and you have had tunnel vision and you end up bridging over the ball you were straight in on trying to bank one away from your opponents hole ( I know everyone has done this multiple times.. it happens and if you say never than you are full of shit!!
 

wincardona

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How can you say it wasn't available? Look where the cue ball hit the rail when he missed the 15. Now just softly play to over cut the 15 and its an easy safe.. Maybe seeing how you never mentioned the option in the beginning of this thread, maybe he over looked it just like you did (its ok I know you got too much pride to admit it)..
Now then back to your explanation of what he chose.. You are saying how low percentage the bank on the 15 ball would be and would be almost impossible for someone to run out if you kick the 5 ball.. Obviously Gabe is intelligent and we have to give him respect to know that YET he chose to shoot a low percentage shot in a way that if he misses it he will probably lose the game... So now explain to me why Gabe would shoot a shot he is at best 50/50 at making when if he misses he loses instead of kicking the 5 ball where you think he is at least 80% to win the game. It doesn't add up Billy.
Billy do you know what OCCAM'S Razor is.. For sure he could have played my safe but didn't, for sure he could have played your kick and still won the game most of the time YET he chose the one option where if he misses he loses.. So in this case OCCAM's Razor... Gabe didn't want to win
I said I had one final question for you in my above post..I lied. I have many questions for you because I have a very good understanding of the difficulties certain positions have..in terms of the execution part of them. You say all he has to do is thin the 15ball and you win 90% of the time, which is absurd to begin with. Even if all balls were wedged in an up table pocket you wouldn't win 90% of the time.:frus:sorry How you feeling about now?

Now i'll talk a little about your simple safety that you keep alluding to, as if it were a hanger.:rolleyes: You're slow rolling the cue ball at an angle that requires an exact hit, (shooting off the far rail) a slight roll off and you could scratch in the side off the 15ball, a thicker hit than anticipated clearly leaves the 15ball in a very bankable ending position for a simple damaging return shot. In my very educated opinion I make one of those two things the favorite to happen, as opposed to how you say what will happen. However, I believe it was a moot point because I don't believe that your option was an option worthy of choosing, simply because Gabe didn't choose it. If anything I would give Gabe the benefit of the doubt that the option you keep referring to wasn't there for that reason, Cabbage Head.

Dr. Bill
 

onepockethacker

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Maybe the simple safe was the forest and Gabe couldn't see it because those damn trees were in his way again:eek::lol:p
 

wincardona

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Simple answer Billy would be appreciated. Have you ever over looked a simple safety because you were in an apparent brutal spot.. Why do you think there is that old saying when you are in a tough spot look for something simple to do? If people always saw the simple solutions you wouldn't need to have that saying.
How many times in your pool career has a person sold out to you and left you straight in your hole and you have had tunnel vision and you end up bridging over the ball you were straight in on trying to bank one away from your opponents hole ( I know everyone has done this multiple times.. it happens and if you say never than you are full of shit!!
:frus:frus:frus:frus:frus:frus:frus
I'm done with you.

Dr. Bill< even I can't help you
 

onepockethacker

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I said I had one final question for you in my above post..I lied. I have many questions for you because I have a very good understanding of the difficulties certain positions have..in terms of the execution part of them. You say all he has to do is thin the 15ball and you win 90% of the time, which is absurd to begin with. Even if all balls were wedged in an up table pocket you wouldn't win 90% of the time.:frus:sorry How you feeling about now?

Now i'll talk a little about your simple safety that you keep alluding to, as if it were a hanger.:rolleyes: You're slow rolling the cue ball at an angle that requires an exact hit, a slight roll off and you could scratch in the side off the 15ball, a thicker hit than anticipated clearly leaves the 15ball in a very bankable ending position for a simple damaging return shot. In my very educated opinion I make one of those two things the favorite to happen, as opposed to how you say what will happen. However, I believe it was a moot point because I don't believe that your option was an option worthy of choosing, simply because Gabe didn't choose it. If anything I would give Gabe the benefit of the doubt that the option you keep referring to wasn't there for that reason, Cabbage Head.

Dr. Bill
Do you hear what you are saying Billy? Do you read what you write or just fart it out:eek: :D You are giving Gabe the benefit of the doubt about my shot yet he chose a shot that he is 50/50 to lose the game with over your option. So I guess using YOUR OWN LOGIC we have to conclude that by soft kicking the 5 ball Gabe thought he was like 60% to lose the game after kicking or why else would he shoot the 15. So if we are giving Gabe all this benefit of doubt than again using YOUR LOGIC I guess Gabe shot the right shot.:frus:rolleyes:
 

onepockethacker

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:frus:frus:frus:frus:frus:frus:frus
I'm done with you.

Dr. Bill< even I can't help you
LMFAO you would have made a helluva lawyer. If you were a defense lawyer you would get a guy appearing for a parking ticket the electric chair..
P.S. By the way the medical association has reviewed this WWYD.. they are revoking your Doctors permit and suing you for malpractice:lol
 

wincardona

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Maybe the simple safe was the forest and Gabe couldn't see it because those damn trees were in his way again:eek::lol:p
That's possible, the reason you can't see the answer is not because of the trees, it's because you're in the way.:lol:lol

Have a talk with yourself and try to change..trust me, i'm a doctor.

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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LMFAO you would have made a helluva lawyer. If you were a defense lawyer you would get a guy appearing for a parking ticket the electric chair..
P.S. By the way the medical association has reviewed this WWYD.. they are revoking your Doctors permit and suing you for malpractice:lol
If it weren't for your humor..no one would listen to you All your supporters are afraid to disagree with you in fear of you quit posting all these ridiculous, hilarious post you keep coming with..me included. Your hilarious ridiculous post are the trees that everyone can't see through to get the real answers to the problems we need to resolve. Matter of fact i'm conceding..You're right

Dr. Bill
 
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