WWYD - Ochoa v Appleton

lll

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several years ago we had a discussion on kisses which i brought up because of what i perceived as conflict between "freddie"s rules" and "grady's rules"
bear with me as i explain the rules
let me add these rules were for cross banks short way or long way
i havent tried them for cut back banks
any way here goes
i will show diagrams after my explanation (for john who just likes to look at the pictures...:D)
gradys rule was if the object ball blocks the path to opposite pocket you are banking to WITH INSIDE ENGLISH there was a kiss
in the diagram of the table cue ball position 1 vs 2
freddies rule was more precise
if the line to the pocket of the 2 balls was to the FACING there was a kiss (very tough to beat)
but
if the line of the 2 balls is to the CENTER of the pocket there was no kiss NO ENGLISH MENTIONED
continued next post
 
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lll

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so that solved the mystery there can and cant be a kiss if the cue ball cant see the pocket
here are the pics
i threw in a bonus freddie rule...:)
grady
grady rule kiss diagram.jpg
freddy

kiss 1.jpg

kiss 2.jpg

kiss 3.jpg
 
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cincy_kid

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Thanks for that explanation and diagram Larry, appreciate it!

I know for the cross corners down by our pockets, its pretty easy for me to see when its a kiss. However, in some cases when its going to kiss you can under cut it and use inside english or over cut to and hold the ball to avoid the kiss. Yet there are some that may not be avoidable at all...

I am interested, like others, to have some sort of formula to use like the grady or freddie rule to know on other shots all over the table whether it would be a kiss or not.

Dr. Bill may be another good resource for this?
 

androd

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rod your thoughts??
Of course Freddy is correct. There are ways to beat most kisses some of which I learned from Freddy. RIP

P.S I often help players learn these funny banks, then they use them against me. LOL
 

John Brumback

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john brumback your thoughts ??
Larry,I don't have a system that I use or measure with. I guess it comes from hittin a few million or so banks...:lol Like Rod said,alot of them can be beat,one way or another.

While I'm here...the 2 railer on the 2 looks to be settin real good to have the cball go down and pocket that ball at the same time. Juice the call with lots of Lhe and that will help stiff the 2 ball also. Main thing would be to hit it at just the right speed.If I make the ball down there and miss the bank,I'll just let him fire away at the spot shot. John B.

PS:sorry I could not be of any help to your question.
 

cincy_kid

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Larry,I don't have a system that I use or measure with. I guess it comes from hittin a few million or so banks...:lol Like Rod said,alot of them can be beat,one way or another.

While I'm here...the 2 railer on the 2 looks to be settin real good to have the cball go down and pocket that ball at the same time. Juice the call with lots of Lhe and that will help stiff the 2 ball also. Main thing would be to hit it at just the right speed.If I make the ball down there and miss the bank,I'll just let him fire away at the spot shot. John B.

PS:sorry I could not be of any help to your question.
Good point on the pocket speed bank JB, I suppose you are right..let him fire at the spot shot from inside the jaws when you have a ball real close to your pocket. Makes that shot a bit harder for him hehe...
 

lll

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Of course Freddy is correct. There are ways to beat most kisses some of which I learned from Freddy. RIP

P.S I often help players learn these funny banks, then they use them against me. LOL
thanks rod
 

lll

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Larry,I don't have a system that I use or measure with. I guess it comes from hittin a few million or so banks...:lol Like Rod said,alot of them can be beat,one way or another.

While I'm here...the 2 railer on the 2 looks to be settin real good to have the cball go down and pocket that ball at the same time. Juice the call with lots of Lhe and that will help stiff the 2 ball also. Main thing would be to hit it at just the right speed.If I make the ball down there and miss the bank,I'll just let him fire away at the spot shot. John B.

PS:sorry I could not be of any help to your question.
thanks john
your comments on the 2 railer were helpfull...:)
guys like me have a disadvantage of not having hit a million balls/banks etc
thats why rules help us/me even tho eventually you have to develop a feel
 

Mkbtank

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WWYD - Ochoa v Appleton

Larry,I don't have a system that I use or measure with. I guess it comes from hittin a few million or so banks...:lol Like Rod said,alot of them can be beat,one way or another.



While I'm here...the 2 railer on the 2 looks to be settin real good to have the cball go down and pocket that ball at the same time. Juice the call with lots of Lhe and that will help stiff the 2 ball also. Main thing would be to hit it at just the right speed.If I make the ball down there and miss the bank,I'll just let him fire away at the spot shot. John B.



PS:sorry I could not be of any help to your question.


Nice shot, Angler.
 

Miller

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sylver apparently didn't like the way either bank layed and opted to cross the solid to his side and leave appleton long but lost whitey and put it in the drink...

2.jpg

darren drilled the spot shot to win the game

3.jpg
 

gulfportdoc

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I think Ochoa made the right shot, although he got a little too frisky with the CB. If it ended up the way he'd intended, Appleton would not only have nothing, but he'd likely put Ochoa into the position to where he could pocket the hanger and leave it tough for Appleton. It would be spotted, then Appleton would have to protect against leaving any kind of shot on two widely separated pool balls. Once Ochoa made his 7th, then it's anyone's game...:cool:

~Doc
 

androd

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GREAT WWYD
thanks dustin
When I went in the ball hall today, Jeff was playing a very good player, getting 10/7. The exact shot came up, Marvin shot the one railer and left it very close to his pocket, he pointed at me and said "that's a Rodney shot, I learned it from him" I was flattered and amazed the very same shot as this thread came up.
 

lll

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When I went in the ball hall today, Jeff was playing a very good player, getting 10/7. The exact shot came up, Marvin shot the one railer and left it very close to his pocket, he pointed at me and said "that's a Rodney shot, I learned it from him" I was flattered and amazed the very same shot as this thread came up.
rod
thanks for sharing that
the fact that in a gambling situation another player also picked the one rail bank is more proof that is the right shot
next time it comes up for me
i am gonna say
"here comes the rodney shot"
:)
 

cincy_kid

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Nice Rodney ~

Someone giving Tall Jeff 10/7? It wont be long before not many can do that! :D
 

gulfportdoc

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I went to the table and tried both the 1 and 2 railers. Neither seemed to be in real danger of a kiss. The 1-railer caused the CB to end up near the opposite corner pocket (not the one with the hanger). The 2-railer seems to require a more accurate hit. Hit well, the 1-railer has an easier chance of pocketing. But as a safety, Ochoa's type shot is good.

Note: if the positions of the CB or OB are placed only slightly different from the diagram, the shot changes quite a bit.

~Doc
 
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