WWYD-in this tough spot.

mr3cushion

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The score is 1-0, your favor. Your opponent has left you in a tough spot, frozen behind a cluster of balls by their pocket.

Your pocket is lower left. How do get out of this trap and stay at the table to run balls?

WWYD1001.jpg
 

jrhendy

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Looks like you could stiff the cue ball with low right and a good stroke to make the 15. There are two ways to kick, two rails and one rail with a little spin. None are high percentage shots. I might take a scratch on the 14/10 a time or two and hope for a better angle to make his ball.

Whoops, I was playing the wrong hole.
 

One Pocket Ghost

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If beatles 4ball combo is not dead-on.....then instead, you shoot into your opponent's long rail approx. 1/3rd of a diamond up from his corner pocket with low right english...the cueball comes off of the long rail and curves around the 10 and 13 to make the 15, than continues on to shape up the 3ball, 11ball, 2ball or 4ball.....all 3cushion players, and also experienced One Pocket players would see this shot.

- Ghost
 

12squared

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i am frozen so i can push if i want. that 4 ball combo looks like a duck.
This brings up an interesting question: if the cueball is frozen to an object ball and the object ball is frozen or near frozen to a 3rd ball like in this diagram, would you still be allowed to stroke through the ball the CB is frozen to without it being a foul? (Wow, that's a long sentence)

I like the shot by the way.

If it would be a foul I think you could kick into the combo to accomplish the same thing.
 

beatle

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actually there is a 3 cushion shot here. really 4 cushion but 3 cushion billiards. hard left into his long rail so the cueball
goes to the 3rd diamond on your long side rail and then goes to the 2nd diamond on his long rail after hitting the short rail. then its right at the 15 ball.
the 12 might ruin the shot, bill and ghost will know. i might come a little short.
 

Kybanks

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I never was good at puzzles. I believe I'm kicking to the end rail at the edge of the 14 ball to push the 8 ball into the good part of the 4 ball that makes the 15 ball real big! Worth a shot!
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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I would shoot into the side rail and jump over those balls and pocket the 15, just like OneRock! Good to see you back posting OneRock!

12 squared, I did a whole thread devoted to that push scenario, but I got very little response. I know it as a foul! I can explain or better yet, is to review the thread!
I also wrote up a foul criteria for that push scenario of when the cb is frozen to two balls, such as we have in this wwyd!

My foul criteria is basically; when two balls are frozen to the cue ball and to each other in line with the cue ball then the cue ball must be stroked @ a 45 degree angle or greater unless the 2nd object ball is frozen on an angle greater than 45 degrees to the 1st object ball.

The only confirmation I know of what I had learned about this shot; was Ewa Lawrence (world champion trick shot artist) in commentating a world championship trick shot event, stated; that sure was a pretty trick shot, but I want my viewers to know that it is illegal to shoot into more than one ball frozen to the cue ball.
I reckon she learned this from Jimmy Mataya who is generational gap straight pool player that learned it from players of the golden age, pre 1948. For the sake of my rule writing, I took it a step further and said to myself; since it is a foul to shoot into two balls frozen to the cue ball then when is it not a foul, and that is when I developed the foul criteria. The foul criteria is based upon not pushing through the first frozen ball nor to push the 1st ball through the 2nd ball and the only way to do that is to stroke on a 45 degree angle or have the 2nd ball be on a 45 degree angle to do 1st ball.

I thought this is better than eliminating not shooting into the balls at all. I further figured that this rule was for the purpose of keeping players when frozen to the stack of balls of just stroking right on through the stack, which would be a very ugly shot, and an impossible scenario for a referee to judge, of which there would of been a referee back in the golden age of pool, in straight pool tourny's.

But my thread on this, includes videos to help explain the rule. Whitey
 
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Billy Jackets

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I know the stiff off rail by opponents pocket John suggested , but even if I make the ball I don't have any assurance I won't be in a real pickle I put myself in. Plus I just gave up my only threat . I would just jack up and shoot the 14 into the 8 , my only concern is to not lose the cueball , I don't care if I foul, or lose a ball, I want him behind the 10 whatever happens, and those 2 balls anywhere besides in front of his pocket. If I get lucky and make the ball wheeehooooo!
 

Ratamon

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If beatles 4ball combo is not dead-on.....then instead, you shoot into your opponent's long rail approx. 1/3rd of a diamond up from his corner pocket with low right english...the cueball comes off of the long rail and curves around the 10 and 13 to make the 15, than continues on to shape up the 3ball, 11ball, 2ball or 4ball.....all 3cushion players, and also experienced One Pocket players would see this shot.
I will need a ladder to play this shot from where the CB is but I like the idea
 
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Ratamon

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i am frozen so i can push if i want. that 4 ball combo looks like a duck.
It looks like the 8 will hit the 13 first which will push the 4 out of the way so the combo isn’t on I don’t think. A kick into the rs of the 14 may be on, though.
 
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wincardona

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This brings up an interesting question: if the cueball is frozen to an object ball and the object ball is frozen or near frozen to a 3rd ball like in this diagram, would you still be allowed to stroke through the ball the CB is frozen to without it being a foul? (Wow, that's a long sentence)

I like the shot by the way.

If it would be a foul I think you could kick into the combo to accomplish the same thing.
No. It's a foul when you push through a ball that is frozen to another ball or balls.

Dr. Bill
 

cincy_kid

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It looks like the 8 will hit the 13 first which will push the 4 out of the way so the combo isn’t on I don’t think. A kick into the rs of the 14 may be on, though.
If you are aiming up table, the natural throw will throw the 8 more towards the 4 than the 13, so it should be close to on.

If that shot isn't on, I am taking an intentional and just tapping the CB see what my opponent does next.
 

mr3cushion

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If you are aiming up table, the natural throw will throw the 8 more towards the 4 than the 13, so it should be close to on.

If that shot isn't on, I am taking an intentional and just tapping the CB see what my opponent does next.
As Dr. Bill stated, it's a foul to push through the frozen CB into the 14/8.
 

mr3cushion

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If I am shooting away from it aiming at the middle diamond head rail, that's a foul? I can elevate a little if need be...
If you try to kick to the long rail, the CB is only 1 ball width away from the cushion, also the center lines of the 14/8/13 looks like it will hit too much of the 13.

Anyway, like in my other WWYD, there is no wrong shot, "What you think you can execute!"
 
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cincy_kid

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If you try to kick to the long rail, the CB is only 1 ball width away from the cushion, also the center lines of the 14/8/13 looks like it will hit too much of the 13.

Any, like in my other WWYD, there is no wrong shot, "What you think you can execute!"
Just to be clear, I am not kicking, I am shooting the CB into the 14 but not straight through it, I am aiming to the left more...does that still constitute a foul? Just curious, thanks!
 
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