WWYD - Gentile vs Shane

gulfportdoc

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...
from the first position do you think it is a good option??
If you're asking about the initial layout, except it being Chris' shot rather than SVB's-- I don't think the shot thin off the 13, CB two rails back to the stack is feasible.

He'd have to make a very thin hit on the 13 in order to have the CB hit the head rail. Then the CB's natural two-rail angle would take it too far below the meat of the stack. So he'd have to use left spin, which would tend to feed the CB into the corner pocket.:eek: I think the hit required is a lot thinner than it appears to be in the photo.

~Doc
 

lll

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If you're asking about the initial layout, except it being Chris' shot rather than SVB's-- I don't think the shot thin off the 13, CB two rails back to the stack is feasible.

He'd have to make a very thin hit on the 13 in order to have the CB hit the head rail. Then the CB's natural two-rail angle would take it too far below the meat of the stack. So he'd have to use left spin, which would tend to feed the CB into the corner pocket.:eek: I think the hit required is a lot thinner than it appears to be in the photo.

~Doc
thanks doc
 

Island Drive

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I'm banking the 13 to my hole, and leaving em straight in on the 9/10 combo on the head rail. Be difficult to leave the 9 in the hole for a second shot. This will also eliminate him cutting of the other ball since it's only 1/2 pocket and allot of distance.
 

Tom Wirth

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All I can say is given the situation, I'm kicking at the ten. Over cutting the angle a bit and using right hand english to flatten the shot. In my opinion, this is my best bet. Banking the thirteen is pure desperation and a lower percentage shot than the kick. Even if I were guessing at how to shoot it, as I see it, it still has a greater risk/reward value. At least I have considerable margin for error since I can pick up the ten by catching the foot rail. Will I be out of trouble? No, but I will be in a far better position than I am now.

I don't like taking an intentional foul here especially against a player who understands the game as well as Chris does. He will only get me into more trouble, if that's possible.

Tom
 

Island Drive

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Also, the one rail kick off the head rail to the 1 or if ya miss it the 2 or if your a little wider and miss that you'll hit the 11 and likely pocket the hanging ball. There's a wall of balls to carom off of if hit short/medium or long and still accomplish your task.
 

androd

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All I can say is given the situation, I'm kicking at the ten. Over cutting the angle a bit and using right hand english to flatten the shot. In my opinion, this is my best bet. Banking the thirteen is pure desperation and a lower percentage shot than the kick. Even if I were guessing at how to shoot it, as I see it, it still has a greater risk/reward value. At least I have considerable margin for error since I can pick up the ten by catching the foot rail. Will I be out of trouble? No, but I will be in a far better position than I am now.

I don't like taking an intentional foul here especially against a player who understands the game as well as Chris does. He will only get me into more trouble, if that's possible.

Tom
Finally, the voice of reason.:)
 

Jeff sparks

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All I can say is given the situation, I'm kicking at the ten. Over cutting the angle a bit and using right hand english to flatten the shot. In my opinion, this is my best bet. Banking the thirteen is pure desperation and a lower percentage shot than the kick. Even if I were guessing at how to shoot it, as I see it, it still has a greater risk/reward value. At least I have considerable margin for error since I can pick up the ten by catching the foot rail. Will I be out of trouble? No, but I will be in a far better position than I am now.

I don't like taking an intentional foul here especially against a player who understands the game as well as Chris does. He will only get me into more trouble, if that's possible.

Tom
The 9 certainly looms large for this kick Tom, and if missed Chris is really close to his work and that promises to be a big problem.
It is a bad spot for Shane, no question about it. What is your opinion on thinning the 3 over to muddy up the combination lanes and going to the head rail and back around the 1st diamond on the long rail with the CB? Looks like it lays decent for the speed to work out. If successful with the 3 ball lag perhaps Shane won't be in as tough a spot? Would appreciate your thoughts Tom. Thanks
 
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lll

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i was discussing this layout with bill smith who suggested this
gs2.jpg
 

unoperro

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I cant believe Shane didnt cut the 4. Does he need to work on his bridge shots?
 

1pwannabe

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From where Chris is I would jack up at a 45 degree angle on the 12 ball and shoot the 12 ball into the balls pushing them all to my side while drawing the cue ball up table off the side rail to the left of the 13 ball trying to double him up on the 13.. I would not take another foul in this spot.
This is what Chris shot, leaving this for Shane:





WWYD now?
 

Tom Wirth

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The 9 certainly looms large for this kick Tom, and if missed Chris is really close to his work and that promises to be a big problem.
It is a bad spot for Shane, no question about it. What is your opinion on thinning the 3 over to muddy up the combination lanes and going to the head rail and back around the 1st diamond on the long rail with the CB? Looks like it lays decent for the speed to work out. If successful with the 3 ball lag perhaps Shane won't be in as tough a spot? Would appreciate your thoughts Tom. Thanks
Hey Jeff, I guess I didn't make it clear that I was proposing kicking off the side rail under the four. Way too much traffic to deal with by going off the head rail.

The shot you are talking about is to send the three to Chris' side of the table and leaving the cue ball high along the head rail, hoping to create three ball combinations to make the ten? I don't like it Jeff. If that is what you are saying, even if successful in creating combos, you will not have been successful in denying Chris a good bank shot on the eight or maybe that stripe. Jeff, in my opinion, that shot gives up too many options and I would have to bank the thirteen or try to cut the four (if possible) before trying that shot.

Tom

I do have to say in looking at the image from the side rail perspective it might be pretty tough to get enough on the cue ball to flatten it out and hit the ten but I think I would still make the attempt.
 
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Jeff sparks

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Hey Jeff, I guess I didn't make it clear that I was proposing kicking off the side rail under the four. Way too much traffic to deal with by going off the head rail.

The shot you are talking about is to send the three to Chris' side of the table and leaving the cue ball high along the head rail, hoping to create three ball combinations to make the ten? I don't like it Jeff. If that is what you are saying, even if successful in creating combos, you will not have been successful in denying Chris a good bank shot on the eight or maybe that stripe. Jeff, in my opinion, that shot gives up too many options and I would have to bank the thirteen or try to cut the four (if possible) before trying that shot.

Tom
Ok thanks Tom,
But I was trying to shut out the bank on the 8 or the stripe by leaving the CB on the long rail around the 1st diamond as I stated.
I see the possibility of flattening out the angle under the 4 ball, and it's a shot that would definitely work, but one not many people practice often and difficult to fully commit to, which has to be done to execute it successfully. I've seen shots more difficult pulled off before though, times where this type of shot was required to get at a hanger, times where a severe draw stroke was used with inside English to draw off the side rail to shorten the CB's path, make it swerve a bit. I'm sure you know the shot I'm talking about and have probably executed it before.

Anyway I like your shot, and thanks for the analysis of thinning the 3. Looking forward to meeting you in Houston.:)
 

Tom Wirth

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Ok thanks Tom,
But I was trying to shut out the bank on the 8 or the stripe by leaving the CB on the long rail around the 1st diamond as I stated.
I see the possibility of flattening out the angle under the 4 ball, and it's a shot that would definitely work, but one not many people practice often and difficult to fully commit to, which has to be done to execute it successfully. I've seen shots more difficult pulled off before though, times where this type of shot was required to get at a hanger, times where a severe draw stroke was used with inside English to draw off the side rail to shorten the CB's path, make it swerve a bit. I'm sure you know the shot I'm talking about and have probably executed it before.

Anyway I like your shot, and thanks for the analysis of thinning the 3. Looking forward to meeting you in Houston.:)
I see what you're talking about now Jeff. Leaving the cue ball one diamond down the side rail should prevent the bank on the eight but I don't see where you have helped your cause any, just maybe delayed the inevitable.

And you are of course right that the shot I would chose works better if it can be hit with a draw stroke. Here it might be difficult to do that being jacked up over so many balls.

I'm so looking forward to Houston and meeting all of you guys. Think about it. 24 players with a combined knowledge of pool in excess of 1,000 years, all congregated in one place. Amazing and exciting!

Tom
 

lll

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I see what you're talking about now Jeff. Leaving the cue ball one diamond down the side rail should prevent the bank on the eight but I don't see where you have helped your cause any, just maybe delayed the inevitable.

And you are of course right that the shot I would chose works better if it can be hit with a draw stroke. Here it might be difficult to do that being jacked up over so many balls.

I'm so looking forward to Houston and meeting all of you guys. Think about it. 24 players with a combined knowledge of pool in excess of 1,000 years, all congregated in one place. Amazing and exciting!

Tom
WOW,,,wish i were there...have a ball guys.......:)
 

gulfportdoc

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i was discussing this layout with bill smith who suggested this ...
Larry, that's the shot I suggested back in post #15. It's not a hard shot if you've ever played caroms. I made it 2 out of 3 tries. The hanger is a "big ball".

My initial inclination was simply to kick off the side rail for the same shot, using right spin, but it would make me a little nervous shooting jacked up.

~Doc
 

gulfportdoc

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This is what Chris shot, leaving this for Shane:

WWYD now?
I suspect Shane will simply firmly carom off the 9, causing the 9 to move some stuff away, and pocket the hanger with the CB. I'm sure that SVB was happy to be out of the trap.

~Doc
 

lll

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Larry, that's the shot I suggested back in post #15. It's not a hard shot if you've ever played caroms. I made it 2 out of 3 tries. The hanger is a "big ball".

My initial inclination was simply to kick off the side rail for the same shot, using right spin, but it would make me a little nervous shooting jacked up.

~Doc
i think we all agree if you can make the 10 ball DO IT...:D
whatever happens cant be worse....;)
bill smiths (your shot good eye) shot isnt that hard to do
even tho he helps shane by moving more balls to shanes side
 
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