WWYD: Efren vs. SVB

Tom Wirth

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Cory, a little hint. The OB needs to be approx. a balls width closer to the cushion than the cue ball and the shot works better when both balls are well below the side pocket. You want plenty of room for the cue ball to arc toward the top rail. Also, English is not the overriding force which arcs the cue ball, follow does that. So concentrate on a modest amount of English with a full high ball.

Good luck experimenting. This shot will lead to other shots of a similar nature. It is always fun learning new things which opens doors we never knew existed. Pretty soon you will need a bigger quiver to house all those arrows. :)

Tom
 

wincardona

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Cory, a little hint. The OB needs to be approx. a balls width closer to the cushion than the cue ball and the shot works better when both balls are well below the side pocket. You want plenty of room for the cue ball to arc toward the top rail. Also, English is not the overriding force which arcs the cue ball, follow does that. So concentrate on a modest amount of English with a full high ball.

Good luck experimenting. This shot will lead to other shots of a similar nature. It is always fun learning new things which opens doors we never knew existed. Pretty soon you will need a bigger quiver to house all those arrows. :)

Tom
You're 100% correct when you say that the "right english" or what ever english used is not the overriding force. It's the high ball that arcs the cue ball, the side english is used whenever you feel that the arc will not take you to a position on the top rail to achieve your final position. The side english should only be used to change the angle coming off the top rail whenever you feel that the "arc" is late. The arc will straighten out the angle the cue ball will take coming off the top rail. The best way to understand what i'm saying is to practice the shot. Those who are just learning the shot, or those who would like to learn the shot.

Thanks Tom.

Dr. Bill
 

lll

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and corys analogous shot with different cue ball path
tt5.jpg
 

lll

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i hope i got that right...:D....:eek:?.....:heh
(i have too much time on my hands today...:eek:)
 

Cory in dc

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i hope i got that right...:D....:eek:?.....:heh
(i have too much time on my hands today...:eek:)
Thanks, you got my version exactly right!

From what Tom and Billy were saying, I'm not sure the arc version that you drew up is possible--the CB may need to be on the other side of the OB from the rail (Tom wrote, "The OB needs to be approx. a balls width closer to the cushion than the cue ball"). I'm going to play with this shot tonight and will report back, hopefully with something more insightful than "I need a better stroke."
 

Tom Wirth

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and corys analogous shot with different cue ball path
View attachment 8701
The path Cory has displayed in this instance is correct given the position of the cue ball and one ball. From this angle Dr. Bill's shot is not there.

If the OB was closer to the rail and the cue ball away from the rail enough so the line the two balls create runs somewhat towards the first diamond along the side rail, then you have the angle for the shot Dr. Bill has suggested.

BTW a great deal of speed is not necessary to get the desired arc on the cue ball. And Cory you do have plenty of stroke to execute this shot.

Tom
 

lll

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Thanks, you got my version exactly right!

From what Tom and Billy were saying, I'm not sure the arc version that you drew up is possible--the CB may need to be on the other side of the OB from the rail (Tom wrote, "The OB needs to be approx. a balls width closer to the cushion than the cue ball"). I'm going to play with this shot tonight and will report back, hopefully with something more insightful than "I need a better stroke."
i didnt know how to change the position of the cue ball in your diagram
i played around with this shot this am at home
it worked like a charm
as you know the harder you hit it the longer it will take to "bend" forward
so in this case harder is not better
for me 2 tips follow was fine
you will like the shot thanks dr. bill and tom:)
 

piggybank04

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nice discussion here, but i still say that 8-6 combo has a good chance--yes, even at that extremely ackward angle.....someone please chime in, you dont have to agree, but im telling you, there is something to that, i swear!!
 

Tom Wirth

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Sorry Larry, I was obviously a little confused as to who posted what illustration but I think we are all on the same path now.

Tom
 

lll

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Sorry Larry, I was obviously a little confused as to who posted what illustration but I think we are all on the same path now.

Tom
tom just so there is no confusion
you me cory and billy are discussing the 3 rail responce to efrens shot(shane is shooting now)
piggybank04 is referring still to what shot efren should shoot
 

Tom Wirth

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Larry, Yes and no.

I understand Piggy is referring to the previous shot and the rest of us are referring to the aftermath reply. But I think Dr. Bill's suggestion of the three rail response was before he saw how close the cue ball lays along the end rail. This eliminates Bill's shot in my opinion. The reason being that it is near impossible to accurately strike the cue ball with the power needed to execute the shot with reasonable expectations.

I haven't looked the situation over enough to say what my response would be from here but I can assure you that the shot we have been talking about would not be my choice and I doubt Dr. Bill would like it either, but Bill can very well speak for himself.

Tom
 

lll

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agree completely tom
dr.bills suggestion was several posts before the end result of efrens shot was shown
still nice shot to know and excellent discussion
are you sure efren didnt pick the cue ball up and place it there with his hand???:D
 

bstroud

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The shot Effrin shot and the result he got is simply above my pay grade.

Having said that all he accomplished is to escape the trap he was in.

He created no leverage and will probably find himself in a worse situation soon.

What happened from here?

Bill S.
 

Cory in dc

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The shot Effrin shot and the result he got is simply above my pay grade.

Having said that all he accomplished is to escape the trap he was in.

He created no leverage and will probably find himself in a worse situation soon.

What happened from here?

Bill S.
I'll double check the outcome; I think Efren got out of the trap and won, but I don't remember for sure. He could have hit that shot 3% harder and still ended up safe, while moving the 10-ball another foot or so further, which would have really advanced the cause. But you're right: while amazing, the shot didn't really get him out of trouble.

As I recall, SVB responding by thinning the 13 and going over to Efren's side of the table. I'm not sure though. He may have thinned the 1. I'm pretty sure he did not 3-rail the 13, though.
 
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wincardona

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The shot Effrin shot and the result he got is simply above my pay grade.

Having said that all he accomplished is to escape the trap he was in.

He created no leverage and will probably find himself in a worse situation soon.

What happened from here?

Bill S.
#$&?*!@# :frus

Dr. Bill
 

Ken_4fun

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I would shoot the 10 2 rails but the real deal it to lead the cueball on the end rail and leave both balls in a line with cue ball.

Ken
 
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